Praying About the Book of Mormon - Is it Biblical?

[Answersplease]

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Praying About the Book of Mormon - Is it Biblical?

mrm.org/praying-about-bofm

Nowhere does the Bible ever direct the believing Christian to take any religious book and pray about the truthfulness of its contents.

In essence, the test of Moroni 10:4 is a no-win situation

. The one who is challenged must accept the book as true otherwise his integrity is placed under suspicion. If a person does accept the challenge (albeit unbiblical as it is) and concludes that the Book of Mormon is not of God, it is obvious to the Mormon that the person who prayed Moroni’s prayer either did not have a sincere heart, real intent, or perhaps even their faith in Christ was somehow inadequate. Mormons are convinced that if these three ingredients are used properly the test will yield positive results. Since it is not possible (in their mind) for the book to be wrong, the one who prayed must have done something wrong. To prove my point, ask your Mormon acquaintance if he/she will renounce Joseph Smith and the LDS Church if you were to pray about the Book of Mormon and, as a result, felt that God told you it was not scripture. If they will not agree to this condition they unwittingly confirm the fact that this is not a fool-proof method for determining truth. If it is possible for you to get an erroneous “negative” answer, why is it not possible for them to get an erroneous “positive” answer?

 

[TheosisM]

Perhaps it’s based on James 1:5-6

5
But if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God who gives to all generously and ungrudgingly, and he will be given it.
6
But he should ask in faith, not doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed about by the wind.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

The Mormons who visited me asked me to do it. I did it just for fun. Nothing happened. But on top of that, it was also because I had studied some Church history and the gospels, and knew that their teachings were false.

I don’t think you can really make a discernment as to what allegiance you have over a simple prayer, let alone something based off one prayer that ignores scriptural and historical study.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Perhaps it’s based on James 1:5-6

5
But if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God who gives to all generously and ungrudgingly, and he will be given it.
6
But he should ask in faith, not doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed about by the wind.

I understand this doubt to be of the kind that doubts what God has done and can do. Mormon’s very foundation is doubt. Of the sort that Christ could not keep His own Church together.

Christian faith is grounded in Hope, not doubt. This Hope is a person, Jesus Christ.

 

[Answersplease]

Perhaps it’s based on James 1:5-6

5
But if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God who gives to all generously and ungrudgingly, and he will be given it.
6
But he should ask in faith, not doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed about by the wind.

James 1:5-6 is asking for wisdom in general.

Moroni 10:4 is specifically asking if the scriptures are true or false.

And notice that the quote in the original post in this thread is saying that there can only be one positive pro-Mormon outcome, because a negative outcome would prove the Book of Mormon false.

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Moroni 10:3

Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down unto the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

Moroni 10:4
And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

And look at the next verse, Moroni 10:5, it says that you may know the truth of all things.

Does the Mormon Church know the truth of all things?

Did Joseph Smith know the truth of all things?

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Moroni 10:5

And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

 

[HaroldCares]

The Book of Mormon is made up. There is so much to note. It mentions elephans and horses and none ever existed in North and South America. It mentions weapons of steel and brass and none ever existed in the New World.

The Book of Mormon contains 19 chapters of Isaiah in their entirety, along with parts of a few other chapters. Specifically, chapters 2-14, 48-51, 53, and 54 of Isaiah are contained in the Book of Mormon. Most of Isaiah 52 is contained in the Book of Mormon as well. Approximately 30% of Isaiah is found in the Book of Mormon.

I mean really, he made this stuff up. As he also completely dreamt up the Pearl of Great Price from an Egyptian papyrus detailing ordinary funerary rites. As he based priesthood ordinances on masonic ritual.

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I don’t wanna be hard on Mormons. They are a GREAT people. They have GOOD social values. They support traditional marriage, pro-life, love children, encourage education, strong families. They have a good culture. But their theology is made up.

Each of us, as we explore our faith, have questions and tend to compare ourselves to other christian communities. But there will always be one, holy, apolostolic church.
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[Georgia]

Prayer, wonderful as it is, does not necessarily give us all the answers. A little reading has its place.You can do all the research on the BOM you want without even going to religious sources. Those will leave you no doubt that the BOM is not of divine origin. Try, for example, “Who Really Wrote the Book of Mormon”, web sites offering comparison of original versions with today’s, textual analysis, anachronisms such as the presence of bees in the BOM before the Spanish brought them to America, and so on.

 

[aquabatix]

The challenge to pray Moroni’s prayer and ask the truthfulness of the BOM is a double edged sword that pushes the investigator into the answer the missionaries desire. A couple of dough-eyed boys or girls claim that they “know the BOM is true and that Joseph Smith is a prophet of god” and because their testimony is confirmed by the “burning in the bosom”, if you don’t receive the same answer, there is something wrong with you. It’s an unfortunate trap.

 

[dianaiad]

I understand this doubt to be of the kind that doubts what God has done and can do. Mormon’s very foundation is doubt. Of the sort that Christ could not keep His own Church together.

Christian faith is grounded in Hope, not doubt. This Hope is a person, Jesus Christ.

It’s not a case of whether Christ could not, Rebecca. Of course He COULD…if He abrogated every idea of free will we have. We do not claim that He COULD Not have done so. We simply claim that He DID not…because His followers made their own choices.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

It’s not a case of whether Christ could not, Rebecca. Of course He COULD…if He abrogated every idea of free will we have. We do not claim that He COULD Not have done so. We simply claim that He DID not…because His followers made their own choices.

Then that means a few generations were left ‘orphans’, wouldn’t it? That would mean that Jesus wasn’t with us until the consummation of the world, wouldn’t it? That would mean that Jesus didn’t really know men, wouldn’t it?

Joh 2:24 But Jesus did not trust himself unto them: for that he knew all men,

 

[dianaiad]

Then that means a few generations were left ‘orphans’, wouldn’t it? That would mean that Jesus wasn’t with us until the consummation of the world, wouldn’t it? That would mean that Jesus didn’t really know men, wouldn’t it?

Joh 2:24 But Jesus did not trust himself unto them: for that he knew all men,

…and He didn’t trust 'em, either. KNOWING all men doesn’t mean forcing them, y’know.

…and you will have to define ‘orphans.’ We do claim that the priesthood was lost, but that followers of Christ were somehow damned because the priesthood wasn’t there? WE do not claim that. YOU do on our behalf, but that doesn’t count. y’know.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Prayer, wonderful as it is, does not necessarily give us all the answers.

Let’s not forget that Mohammad supposedly met an angel of God while praying to know of the true god.

Prayer based on subjectivity is not spiritual discernment. The Church Fathers often taught that if we had a dream and did not know if it came from God or not, God would not feel offended if we ignored it - He would rather us be cautious than foolish. Likewise, a decision based on a burning sensation in prayer cannot be taken seriously. That allows us to be creatures of passion, which the Lord does not advise.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

…and He didn’t trust 'em, either. KNOWING all men doesn’t mean forcing them, y’know.

…and you will have to define ‘orphans.’ We do claim that the priesthood was lost, but that followers of Christ were somehow damned because the priesthood wasn’t there? WE do not claim that. YOU do on our behalf, but that doesn’t count. y’know.

You kind of confused me. I didn’t claim anything on your behalf, or ‘ours’. I asked a few questions, based on scriptures.

Orphans, without Him.

IF He knew all men, surely He knew what He was leaving His Church in the hands of, and He knew none would be perfect through out time. The verse states, He knew ALL men.

He certainly displayed confidence that God’s truth could be protected, even through sinful men.

Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
Mat 23:3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not. For they say, and do not.

Another point, Christ cannot lie and He never said, if certain conditions are not met, the priesthood will be lost. He said, He would be with us until the consummation of the world. He didn’t mention any gaps?

We have writings of the early Church fathers. Which were not of the ‘real’ priesthood? At what point did they lose the priesthood? Why would Christ allow the priesthood to be lost and not restored until the 1800s? Do you assume there were no holy people that the priesthood could be entrusted too until the 1800s? What distinguishes those over ALL since the priesthood was supposedly lost?

That’s a lot of people without a priesthood, no matter what length of time you say it was lost.

 

[RebeccaJ]

It’s not a case of whether Christ could not, Rebecca. Of course He COULD…if He abrogated every idea of free will we have. We do not claim that He COULD Not have done so. We simply claim that He DID not…because His followers made their own choices.

Then you do not believe in the forgiveness of sins, as you claim.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

We do claim that the priesthood was lost, but that followers of Christ were somehow damned because the priesthood wasn’t there? WE do not claim that. YOU do on our behalf, but that doesn’t count. y’know.

Another thought came to mind after I posted my last post.

Christ said:

**Rev 22:18 For I testify to every one that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book.
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book. **

As I said, He also said He wouldn’t leave us orphans and He would be with us until the consummation of the world. Those are His prophesies.

**Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father: and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever:
Joh 14:17 The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him. But you shall know him; because he shall abide with you and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you orphans: I will come to you. **

Mat 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

If we ignore those prophesies, are we not taking away from His words? And what about the prophesies that were added to this book, through the book of Mormon?

 

[TheosisM]

Then you do not believe in the forgiveness of sins, as you claim.

This is an interesting way to look at it, thanks.

 

[RebeccaJ]

We simply claim that He DID not…because His followers made their own choices.

I would also challenge you to back this up.

I know what mormons have been taught about Christianity. I also know what they are not taught. A very rich tapestry of God guiding His Church is there, and never mentioned, a though it never happened.

 

[RebeccaJ]

This is an interesting way to look at it, thanks.

np.

 

[dianaiad]

You kind of confused me. I didn’t claim anything on your behalf, or ‘ours’. I asked a few questions, based on scriptures.

Sorry, that would be ‘you,’ as in the general, not the specific…as in…those who claim that WE believe that many generations of people were left ‘orphans.’

Orphans, without Him.

How can anyone who knows of Him be without Him?

IF He knew all men, surely He knew what He was leaving His Church in the hands of, and He knew none would be perfect through out time. The verse states, He knew ALL men.

He certainly displayed confidence that God’s truth could be protected, even through sinful men.

Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
Mat 23:3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not. For they say, and do not.

Another point, Christ cannot lie and He never said, if certain conditions are not met, the priesthood will be lost. He said, He would be with us until the consummation of the world. He didn’t mention any gaps?

Equivocation there…He came, He suffered, He died and He was resurrected. That remains no matter what sort of heresy/apostasy happened. Again, (and here you are specifically saying that we believe that Christ abandoned everybody…) WE don’t believe that.

We do believe that the church went off the rails and lost the priesthood authority, but we do not claim that Christ abandoned us individually, or that God stopped answering prayers or stopped inspiring people. What we claim is actually what you claim; that official revelation stopped after the apostles died. The difference between us is that we don’t think that was a good thing.

We have writings of the early Church fathers. Which were not of the ‘real’ priesthood? At what point did they lose the priesthood? Why would Christ allow the priesthood to be lost and not restored until the 1800s? Do you assume there were no holy people that the priesthood could be entrusted too until the 1800s? What distinguishes those over ALL since the priesthood was supposedly lost?

That’s a lot of people without a priesthood, no matter what length of time you say it was lost.

Yep…but when you think about it, Most Catholics still don’t have it. Very few, in fact, do. Yet you don’t have a problem with thinking that Catholics are just fine without it…and have been just fine without it for a very long time indeed. If YOU don’t think that the average person needs the priesthood in order to have a personal relationship with Christ, why in the world are you insisting that WE do?

As for the length of time…I’m sure that there WERE a great many faithful and good men who would have honored and been worthy of, the priesthood all during those years. God chose not to give it to them.

God does things in His own time. Consider…HOW many generations of people lived and were faithful on the earth before Christ came, after all? Who are you, or me, to tell God when He should do things?

 

[dianaiad]

I would also challenge you to back this up.

I know what mormons have been taught about Christianity. I also know what they are not taught. A very rich tapestry of God guiding His Church is there, and never mentioned, a though it never happened.

I would be happy to back that up, Rebecca. It’s right there in our missionary lessons and is the basic idea behind our existance. Don’t you think it’s a little silly for you to insist that I ‘back up’ the claim that ‘we claim’ that such an apostasy happened?

As to God guiding His church (if "his church’ is defined as ‘Catholicism…’)…well, no. Individuals may have been guided by Him…and I’m quite certain that they were. If individuals were guided, THEY, as individuals, certainly influenced the church. However, even the CATHOLICS admit that God has not been guiding the church itself, because the only way that can be done is by public revelation–and there hasn’t been any.