Praying for evil?

[e_c]

Parents discipline their children all the time. They do “a kind” of evil (which is here being broadened in scope to include all the goods that a thing may possess) to bring about a better good.

Now, usually it is poor form for one child to petition the parent to punish the other child, but it could be done rightly.

This seems to be the spiritual version of that. That is all.

And as with all petitions, they should include the qualifier - “But not my will, but yours be done.”

 

[Dorothy]

Discipline…a great word.

When the Israelites disobeyed the Lord by going over to the pagans and intermarrying, worshiping their idols, and not having sincere hearts towards their rituals, the Lord in his great LOVE for them disciplined them.

The Lord had Moses take them into the desert for forty years so that they could be purified. There was much privation, and they complained. They learned much also.

It was out of love that the Lord had them purified in that way.

Due to our fallen nature we all need discipline! And need to not complain when we suffer.

All the great saints shared about the power of suffering in union with the Lord.

 

[MysticMissMisty]

Ah, now I think we’re getting closer to it. It just makes it sound better if we call it “discipline” instead of causing “evil”, while, I would argue, both are still the case, in a very strict, technical way.

So, would those who would argue that God cannot do any kind of evil still argue that God can actively “discipline” people?

Would flks, then, be fine with saying that God “disciplined” the people of Babel by confounding thier languages? (Hmm, though, I was just thinking of the passage that God is not the author of confusion…and I’m wondering if the word for “confusion” in the Babel passage is a little different from the word used in the NT. Perhaps the word in the OT passage signifies more a mixing up rather than a confusion born of “disorder” as is likely the understanding in the NT.)

So, I am also interested in hearing the opinions of others regarding praying for evil (or, rather, discipline) in the general sense to which I have narrowed it.

 

[djames99]

No, extremely dangerous as is ouija boards. Conversations are always with good entities. When we pray we are entering in conversation with another being. The one that actions evil is always Satan and his demons. It doesn’t end there as we would think. One would be establishing a contract with Satan, and it always comes with a price and he won’t tell us that. Things may begin to happen maybe decades later. He may declare our surroundings, including baby’s room his territory. It will give cause for all forms of chaos and disorder.

The request is also reported to God by the demons. The person then becomes a trial case and Satan, now prosecutor, argues that he is now his, and rightfully so. But Christ presents the argument to His Majesty that there is still hope for change, and he requests time to change the heart of that person who put his trust in evildoers. Sometimes this is not granted. The best thing is never to give Satan the excuse to take our case to the Lord.

Secondly, we pray for the good for those who do us harm, as they are, in Christ, brothers and sisters. We can also pray for protection from evil(“lead us not into temptation”). So instead we invoke the aid of the Saints, the Lord and Son in their behalf. The harm they do us is applied to our redemption for our sins. We are to show patience and tolerance(as civil laws will allow), and we pray for that change in him that Christ would have pleaded for in our case. Now the common good changes the rule somewhat, and we may need to speak to authorities as his our civil duty.

 

[e_c]

No, extremely dangerous as is ouija boards. Conversations are always with good entities. When we pray we are entering in conversation with another being. The one that actions evil is always Satan and his demons. It doesn’t end there as we would think. One would be establishing a contract with Satan, and it always comes with a price and he won’t tell you that. Things may begin to happen maybe decades later. He may declare your surroundings, including baby’s room his territory. It will give cause for all forms of chaos and disorder.

The request is also reported to God by the demons. The person then becomes a trial case and Satan, now prosecutor, argues that you are now his, and rightfully so. But Christ presents the argument to His Majesty that there is still hope for change, and he requests time to change the heart of that person who put his trust in evildoers. Sometimes this is not granted. The best thing is never to give Satan the excuse to take our case to the Lord.

Secondly, we pray for the good for those who do us harm, as they are, in Christ, brothers and sisters. We can also pray for protection from evil(“lead us not into temptation”). So instead we invoke the aid of the Saints, the Lord and Son in their behalf. The harm they do us is applied to our redemption for our sins. We are to show patience and tolerance(as civil laws will allow), and we pray for that change in him that Christ would have pleaded for in our case. Now the common good changes the rule somewhat, and we may need to speak to authorities as his our civil duty.

I think you’ve missed the sense of the question entirely. The sin you are speaking of would be “sorcery” or something similar.The sin we are trying to find the limit and scope of is “cursing,” which is asking God to harm someone.

I did a very quick search last night and came up with the two passages I referenced, which seem contradictory in a way. A thorough search of the Scriptures should reveal something far subtler than what is being tossed around here as “obvious.”

 

[Dorothy]

Ah, now I think we’re getting closer to it. It just makes it sound better if we call it “discipline” instead of causing “evil”, while, I would argue, both are still the case, in a very strict, technical way.

So, would those who would argue that God cannot do any kind of evil still argue that God can actively “discipline” people?

Would flks, then, be fine with saying that God “disciplined” the people of Babel by confounding thier languages? (Hmm, though, I was just thinking of the passage that God is not the author of confusion…and I’m wondering if the word for “confusion” in the Babel passage is a little different from the word used in the NT. Perhaps the word in the OT passage signifies more a mixing up rather than a confusion born of “disorder” as is likely the understanding in the NT.)

So, I am also interested in hearing the opinions of others regarding praying for evil (or, rather, discipline) in the general sense to which I have narrowed it.

I believe with all my heart that our Good Lord knows how to discipline each individual. I know a person who was disciplined with cancer for six years, and that brought him to the Lord. It was my husband. He died peacefully a few hours after myself and our eight children prayed together around him in the bed. He couldn’t speak at that time, but had gone to confession about two months prior, and had Holy Communion and last rites a few days before his death, with the priest in our home.

Oh…the grown children had to discipline themselves and fly quickly to where we were so we could all be together! God is very good!

 

[Pedro_1987]

Didn’t you hear it in the Bible? “Pray for your enemies to fall down in a ditch and wish my father’s wrath upon them for they are wicked!”