Praying for others and Christ's mediatorship

  • Thread starter Thread starter gnosisofthomas
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
G

gnosisofthomas

Guest
I was reading the tract on this site about praying to the saints, which I agree with. But one of the arguments it refuted (that praying to the saints violates Christ’s mediatorship) got me thinking… Are there any Christian denominations that believe praying for each other is a violation of Christ’s role as mediator between God and man?

For instance, is there any Christian (on earth, not the saints in heaven) that would refuse to pray for me on the grounds that Christ is the only mediator?
 
gnosisofthomas said:
I was reading the tract on this site about praying to the saints, which I agree with. But one of the arguments it refuted (that praying to the saints violates Christ’s mediatorship) got me thinking… Are there any Christian denominations that believe praying for each other is a violation of Christ’s role as mediator between God and man?

For instance, is there any Christian (on earth, not the saints in heaven) that would refuse to pray for me on the grounds that Christ is the only mediator?
Click to expand...
I too have wondered this, but have found no evidence to suggest that any do, or at least any of the mainstream, well-known, groups. There might be some small sects or local churches somewhere that do, but no large group that I know of.

Though, if there are, I’d be interested in their interpretation of the scriptures which state that we should pray for one another, such as James 5:16.
 
bzkoss236 said:
I too have wondered this, but have found no evidence to suggest that any do, or at least any of the mainstream, well-known, groups. There might be some small sects or local churches somewhere that do, but no large group that I know of.

Though, if there are, I’d be interested in their interpretation of the scriptures which state that we should pray for one another, such as James 5:16.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it would surprise me too… I just wondered since the “one mediator” argument is used a lot against praying to the saints. Of course it’s usually coupled with the argument that the dead are completely unaware of the living.
 
gnosisofthomas said:
Yeah, it would surprise me too… I just wondered since the “one mediator” argument is used a lot against praying to the saints. Of course it’s usually coupled with the argument that the dead are completely unaware of the living.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I always want to ask whether they think their deceased loved ones are with them, or aware of them, at their weddings and such. I’ve often heard the “I wish [so and so] were here to see this”, and the common response seems to always be, “I’m sure they are here with us in spirit to be here with us during this wonderful day” or something to that effect.

This really has me curious now. Googling away! Be back soon…
 
gnosisofthomas said:
Yeah, it would surprise me too… I just wondered since the “one mediator” argument is used a lot against praying to the saints. Of course it’s usually coupled with the argument that the dead are completely unaware of the living.
Click to expand...
Except they are not dead, but very much alive.
 
MarcoPolo said:
Are you saying the saints in heaven have no consciousness toward prayers directed at them from those on earth?
Click to expand...
I think he is saying that there are those who believe that but I don’t believe he does.
 
gnosisofthomas said:
More alive that us! But of course I meant dead to this world.
Click to expand...
Quite right.

Mark 12:26-27
New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the story about the bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is God not of the dead, but of the living; you (Sadducees) are quite wrong.”
 
MarcoPolo said:
Are you saying the saints in heaven have no consciousness toward prayers directed at them from those on earth?
Click to expand...
I think what he means is not living on earth dead. Like, not currently walking around in their body on earth type living.
 
MarcoPolo said:
Are you saying the saints in heaven have no consciousness toward prayers directed at them from those on earth?
Click to expand...
All I meant was, their earthly bodies are dead… Nothing about them not being conscious of this world. “In the sight of the unwise they seemed to die…” (Wisdom 3:2)

Obviously there are some people that think they have no consciousness of us on earth, but I’m not one of those people.
 
I had precisely this discussion with an Anglo Catholic priest. In the Prayer Book, we describe Christ as ’ our only Mediator and Advocate’. But he explained to me that there are different levels of mediation, and all eventually had to go through Christ to reach the Father. It was good enough for me, but intercession of saints isn’t something I feel moved to do at all, and I find the veneration of them by others to be a little too close to worship for my liking.
 
Moses was a mediator between God and man.

So they took up a position farther away and said to Moses, “You speak to us, and we will listen; but do not let God speak to us, or we shall die.” Moses answered the people, “Do not be afraid, for God has come only to test you and put the fear of him upon you so you do not sin.” So the people remained at a distance, while Moses approached the dark cloud where God was. The LORD said to Moses: This is what you will say to the Israelites: (Exodus 20:18-22)

Moses goes up and down the mountain at least five times that I could count, relaying messages between God and man, discussing it with each party, getting them to understand each other’s position, concerns and responsibilities under the covenant which is being proposed - mediating a covenant.

And that’s the point in Hebrews. Christ is the mediator of a covenant. That’s the whole point of Christ’s mediation - covenant. Christ can be the only one, perfect mediator of a covenant between God and man because only Christ is both God and man.

Whenever Scripture speaks of Christ’s mediation, it is always in the context of the covenant. That’s what Paul was talking about in 1 Timothy - the mediation of a covenant. Jews were covenant people. The covenant was everything to a Jew.

But Moses was also a mediator. The section heading above Exodus 20:18 in the NAB says “Moses accepted as mediator.” Moses mediated between God and man.

-Tim-
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top