Praying for others and Christ's mediatorship

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gnosisofthomas said:
There’s actually nothing in the Creed that I disagree with.

Where does the Gospel say the OHCAC can define scripture? The various parts of the orthodox OHCAC can’t even agree on what’s canonical and what isn’t…

I could say the same to you, Coptic One. 🙂
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Gnostic one,

Where in the Creed does it say that the OHCAC cannot define Scripture?
 
gnosisofthomas said:
You have trouble actually answering questions, don’t you?
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Gnostic One,

I am sure you cannot answer the question. This is why you dodged it…I understand…you have no idea who the “We” is in We believe in the Creed…
 
CopticChristian said:
Gnostic One,

I am sure you cannot answer the question. This is why you dodged it…I understand…you have no idea who the “We” is in We believe in the Creed…
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Of course I know who “we” is. How does this Creed give (or not give) any authority to define a canon of scripture?

I love how derailed this thread has gotten. I’m guessing you got bored with the other threads…
 
gnosisofthomas said:
Of course I know who “we” is. How does this Creed give (or not give) any authority to define a canon of scripture?

I love how derailed this thread has gotten. I’m guessing you got bored with the other threads…
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Gnostic one,

Of course you can does not imply that you can only that you say you can as you avoid committing to what you can do. I understand. Many cannot act and choose not to act on what it is they say they can do. Timidity is common.
 
CopticChristian said:
Gnostic one,

Of course you can does not imply that you can only that you say you can as you avoid committing to what you can do. I understand. Many cannot act and choose not to act on what it is they say they can do. Timidity is common.
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I’m sure that made sense in your head, but it’s not really related to the topic. And I didn’t say, “Of course I can.”

Would you please answer my question above?

You seem to be saying that because I don’t believe what you believe, that makes me timid. You couldn’t be more wrong. Please stop with the unfounded personal remarks, it’s unbecoming of a Catholic.
 
gnosisofthomas said:
I’m sure that made sense in your head, but it’s not really related to the topic. And I didn’t say, “Of course I can.”

Would you please answer my question above?

You seem to be saying that because I don’t believe what you believe, that makes me timid. You couldn’t be more wrong. Please stop with the unfounded personal remarks, it’s unbecoming of a Catholic.
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Gnostic One,

You have not answered who “We” is…when you definitevely answer this question…then I can dialogue with you…I don’t think you know…

The “We” in the Creed, the profession of Faith is…who?
 
The “we” is orthodox Christians. To be clear, I don’t recognize the ecumenical councils, however there is nothing in the Creed that I can say I disagree with.
 
gnosisofthomas said:
The “we” is orthodox Christians. To be clear, I don’t recognize the ecumenical councils, however there is nothing in the Creed that I can say I disagree with.
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Gnostic one,

The We is the Bishops that signed the creed…they are the We that confessed “We” believe and because they wrote this to solidify beliefs contrary to Arianism and the Apostles Creed is contrary to Gnosticism…

The We is the Bishops…and as Ignatius says…where you see the Bishop there is the Catholilc Church and the Bishops in unity are the leaders of the Church that is Apostolic and has leadership…
(The word church applies to those bodies of Christians who have a valid episcopal leadership or hierarchy, while the phrase ecclesial communities refers to those bodies of Christians that do not have an apostolic hierarchy.)
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the body of Christians that have a valid episcopal leadership declare the Bible to be Scripture and what you present as not Scripture…
We believe (I believe ) in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begottenSon of God, and born of the Father before all ages. (God of God ) light of light, true God of true God. Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for usmen and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man ; was crucified also for us underPontius Pilate, suffered and wasburied ; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And (I believe ) in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son ), who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by theProphets. And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess (I confess) one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for (I look for) theresurrection of the dead and thelife of the world to come. Amen."
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The Bishops of the OHCAC profess that they and as a result we, the faithful believe in One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church…you have said you deny this…

and you preach another gospel…:eek:
 
CopticChristian said:
The We is the Bishops that signed the creed…they are the We that confessed “We” believe and because they wrote this to solidify beliefs contrary to Arianism and the Apostles Creed is contrary to Gnosticism…
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Arianism isn’t Gnosticism. Arians believed that the Son was subordinate to the Father, which is not a Gnostic teaching. You quoted the Nicene Creed, but the Apostles’ Creed isn’t contrary to Gnosticism either.
CopticChristian said:
The We is the Bishops…and as Ignatius says…where you see the Bishop there is the Catholilc Church and the Bishops in unity are the leaders of the Church that is Apostolic and has leadership…

the body of Christians that have a valid episcopal leadership declare the Bible to be Scripture and what you present as not Scripture…
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You’ve been unable to prove that we do not have valid episcopal leadership. The quote you cited about the church doesn’t say anything about scripture. The churches that have valid apostolic succession have different bibles and are not all in unity with each other, yet they are part of the OHCAC.
CopticChristian said:
The Bishops of the OHCAC profess that they and as a result we, the faithful believe in One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church…you have said you deny this…
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No I didn’t.
CopticChristian said:
and you preach another gospel…:eek:
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No, I really don’t. But maybe it would be helpful if you said what the gospel is. My understanding is that the gospel is the message of Christ concerning: the Kingdom of God, His death and resurrection, the restoration of our relationship with God, the descent of the Holy Spirit on the faithful as the helper, the resulting promise and hope of being saved, and the healing of the brokenness of the entire created universe.
 
gnosisofthomas said:
Arianism isn’t Gnosticism. Arians believed that the Son was subordinate to the Father, which is not a Gnostic teaching. You quoted the Nicene Creed, but the Apostles’ Creed isn’t contrary to Gnosticism either.

You’ve been unable to prove that we do not have valid episcopal leadership. The quote you cited about the church doesn’t say anything about scripture. The churches that have valid apostolic succession have different bibles and are not all in unity with each other, yet they are part of the OHCAC.

No I didn’t.

No, I really don’t. But maybe it would be helpful if you said what the gospel is. My understanding is that the gospel is the message of Christ concerning: the Kingdom of God, His death and resurrection, the restoration of our relationship with God, the descent of the Holy Spirit on the faithful as the helper, the resulting promise and hope of being saved, and the healing of the brokenness of the entire created universe.
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Gnostic one,

This is from the Ecclesia Gnostica, that you say is the source of your beliefs…
  1. What are we to be saved from?
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We are to be saved first from ignorance which prevents us from knowing our true source, our real nature, our condition and our destiny. At last we shall also be saved from the burden of earthly existence with its attendant conditions of suffering and exile from our true home.
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  1. What brings about salvation?
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Salvation is brought about neither by faith (belief in God, or Christ) nor by works (the performance of good deeds), but by Gnosis.
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  1. Why is this so?
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Because faith and works do not result in a radical change in the being of one’s consciousness, but Gnosis does.
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Do you agree with this?
 
gnosisofthomas said:
Yes, I do. Do you understand what it means?
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Gnostic one,

Yes. I understand that it means you are preaching another Gospel…

For by grace we have been saved, through Faith, working in love, a gift not of your own…

This is the Gospel…Christ’s death and resurrection bring about reconciliation with the Father…see what love the Father has he declares us to be children of God and so we are…

by one man’s disobedience we were made sinners and by one man’s obedience we were made righteous.

I have no need to know or understand another Gospel that you are preaching…
 
CopticChristian said:
For by grace we have been saved, through Faith, working in love, a gift not of your own…

This is the Gospel…Christ’s death and resurrection bring about reconciliation with the Father…see what love the Father has he declares us to be children of God and so we are…

by one man’s disobedience we were made sinners and by one man’s obedience we were made righteous.
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I don’t disagree with this… I may have a different different idea of what Christ’s death and resurrection refer to, but *of course *it’s about grace, faith, and love. I may also disagree with you on how we were made sinners, but I do agree that Christ makes us righteous.

Did you read [Lesson VII ](Catechism VII)in the Catechism? It talks about grace, and the necessity of it. I won’t quote it here to save space, but you can read it for yourself in the link. Grace is a gift from God, bestowing Gnosis upon us.

True, we don’t believe that faith or works save you, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t necessary. Faith is the starting point, it’s the foundation that leads to Gnosis. The Gospel of Philip says it’s “the earth, that in which we take root.” Now, faith isn’t just mere belief – faith (Pistis) means to trust, to have confidence. It’s that trust that leads to Gnosis – God *wants *us to know Him!
 
gnosisofthomas said:
I don’t disagree with this… I may have a different different idea of what Christ’s death and resurrection refer to, but *of course *it’s about grace, faith, and love. I may also disagree with you on how we were made sinners, but I do agree that Christ makes us righteous.

Did you read [Lesson VII ](Catechism VII)in the Catechism? It talks about grace, and the necessity of it. I won’t quote it here to save space, but you can read it for yourself in the link. Grace is a gift from God, bestowing Gnosis upon us.

True, we don’t believe that faith or works save you, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t necessary. Faith is the starting point, it’s the foundation that leads to Gnosis. The Gospel of Philip says it’s “the earth, that in which we take root.” Now, faith isn’t just mere belief – faith (Pistis) means to trust, to have confidence. It’s that trust that leads to Gnosis – God *wants *us to know Him!
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Gnostic one,

I disagree with Ecclesia Gnostica and the Catechism as representative of another Gospel. Section 7 is not consistent with the depost of Faith as found in the Catechism of the OHCAC.
 
CopticChristian said:
Gnostic one,

I disagree with Ecclesia Gnostica and the Catechism as representative of another Gospel. Section 7 is not consistent with the depost of Faith as found in the Catechism of the OHCAC.
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And that’s why we belong to two different churches. 🙂
 
CopticChristian said:
Gnostic one,

There is only One Church, you recall when you were Catholic, Ecclesia Gnostica may be an ecclesial community however I doubt that.
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Of course there is only one Church, I was referring to small-c churches. I won’t get into a debate with you over “ecclesial communities”. We are a church.
 
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