Praying for the dead is useless?

[Cadellin]

Catholic soteriology undermines the principle that God is just.

The principle that God is merciful does not undermine the principle that God is just. The practice of praying for the dead (or the living, for that matter) is based on the belief that God is love and is moved by those appeal to him to show mercy to others. God’s love and mercy transcend his justice. The fact that Jesus died for us proves that.

 

[truetofaith]

Since we don’t know a person’s final destination, we should pray for them, because God will have heard your prayer say 20 years earlier and applied it to their life which changed their life to accept Jesus right before they died. I believe the prayers are retroactive!

 

[bmonk]

. . . We are His body and we are all connected. Catholics are encouraged to offer prayers for the souls in Purgatory no matter if we do not know them. They are “family” non the less and we should pray for them.
Who knows we might end up one day in the same situation. I hope my future brothers and systers will not forget me if I am so lucky to merit to be saved.
Remember those in purgatory ARE saved, final stop Heaven.

–

Yes. In the Apostles’ Creed, this doctrine is the Communion of Saints: that we are One Body of Christ, living and true, and even death is not dividing us from one another.

 

[bmonk]

What part of that rises beyond mere assertion that what Rome says is true because Rome says so?

This whole system rests on the assumption God, who is perfectly holy and just, will not judge people according to what we, individually, deserve. Which is death. The wages of all sin is death. Will God not repay everyone according to what they have done? (Proverbs 24:12) Or will God judge you according to what others have done? Catholic soteriology undermines the principle that God is just.

No: God is just in mercy, because all are offered salvation, through repentance and accepting the grace God offers. But, as we can help one another to accept that grace here on Earth–by encouraging one another, by praying for one another–so we can also help those who have died and are being purified.

Remember that these souls are not condemned to hell. They are awaiting Heaven, only they are not yet pure enough to enjoy heaven. Say you were traveling to a party on a rainy night, and got stuck in the mud on a back road. You push the car out, but your clothes are full of mud. Do you go on to the party? You have every right to be there, true–you got the invitations. But more likely, you go somewhere and change, because neither you nor the other guests would appreciate you showing up all muddy. That changing into clean clothes, “shedding the attachments to sin,” is purgatory.

Similarly, God is merciful in justice, because he does not apply to each of us the full measure of our guilt for punishment. Rather, he looks at such things as how well we practiced mercy ourselves: “Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.” (Matt 6:12, Luke 11:4) "For the measure with which you measure will in return be measured out to you.” (Luke 6:38)

 

[MJCamp]

Protestants believe that accepting Jesus Christ as one’s personal Lord and Savior purifies them off all of their past, present, and future sins.

protestants can believe whatever they want. Fact of the matter is, Purgatory is real, and they will all find out soon enough

 

[bmonk]

Protestants believe that accepting Jesus Christ as one’s personal Lord and Savior purifies them off all of their past, present, and future sins.

Not all Protestants believe as you do.

Even if they do believe, such a doctrine is not scriptural, and so by their own principles should not be accepted.

St. Paul spoke of “working out your salvation in fear and trembling” and often insisted on a change of heart and of behavior. If all sins, including future sins, were forgiven, then why must we die to sin (Rom 6:1-11)? (Most of the Letter to the Romans is a long reflection on the Law, Sin and grace. According to it, we cannot assume that we can just blithely go our way and not worry about sin, because we have been saved by faith.)

 

[Abu]

FreakyLocz14 #22
Protestants believe that accepting Jesus Christ as one’s personal Lord and Savior purifies them off all of their past, present, and future sins.

Where has this error sprung from?

St Paul: the Church is “the pillar and bulwark of the truth (1 Tim 3:16).” St. Paul says also, “through the Church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places (Eph 3:10).” The Church teaches even the angels! This is with the authority of Christ!

But the poster tries to teach Christ and His Church!

 

[FreakyLocz14]

protestants can believe whatever they want. Fact of the matter is, Purgatory is real, and they will all find out soon enough

Even if they do believe, such a doctrine is not scriptural, and so by their own principles should not be accepted.

St. Paul spoke of “working out your salvation in fear and trembling” and often insisted on a change of heart and of behavior. If all sins, including future sins, were forgiven, then why must we die to sin (Rom 6:1-11)? (Most of the Letter to the Romans is a long reflection on the Law, Sin and grace. According to it, we cannot assume that we can just blithely go our way and not worry about sin, because we have been saved by faith.)

Where has this error sprung from?

St Paul: the Church is “the pillar and bulwark of the truth (1 Tim 3:16).” St. Paul says also, “through the Church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places (Eph 3:10).” The Church teaches even the angels! This is with the authority of Christ!

But the poster tries to teach Christ and His Church!

This is called the sola fide doctrine. It teaches that salvation comes from faith in Christ alone, because all men are sinners. They believe that Christ’s sacrifice gives us a “get out of Hell free card” out of God’s grace. They define “grace” as being a completely unmerited free gift to humanity. They believe this because, as they argue, no one can save themselves because all people are sinners, so humanity needs a savior.

In short, Protestants believe that people go to Heaven or Hell based on solely on whether or not they believe in and have accepted Jesus Christ, and that their state of sin plays no part in it, since accepting Christ justifies them forever. They often say “Once saved, always saved.”

I know all of this because my ex is a practicing Protestant.

 

[JonNC]

This is called the sola fide doctrine. It teaches that salvation comes from faith in Christ alone, because all men are sinners. They believe that Christ’s sacrifice gives us a “get out of Hell free card” out of God’s grace. They define “grace” as being a completely unmerited free gift to humanity. They believe this because, as they argue, no one can save themselves because all people are sinners, so humanity needs a savior.

I know all of this because my ex is a practicing Protestant.

A practicing protestant of which communion? Protestant is not a denomination, communion, group, or even a community. The term protestant means nothing, other than a broad general term referring to western non-Catholic Christians.

I certainly do not believe the bolded, and I know few that do.

In short, Protestants believe that people go to Heaven or Hell based on solely on whether or not they believe in and have accepted Jesus Christ, and that their state of sin plays no part in it, since accepting Christ justifies them forever. They often say "Once saved, always saved."

Other than being a caricature of what some western non-Catholic Christians believe, it is a complete inaccuracy bout what others believe, such as Lutherans.

Jon

 

[M1Garand]

That’s the bottom line. In fact, I’d take it a step further, and say ‘time’ can NOT be ‘applied to God.’ God is beyond time. God is not bound at all, by time, or any other human restraints.

Any attempt to limit God, is not only anthropomorphism–it is essentially blasphemy. It is depriving the Lord of what is exclusively His domain–which includes complete, and absolute dominion over every singular aspect of our existence.

Our Faith demands that we acknowledge and respect, in fact maintain and champion, the Lord’s omnipotence, without reservation.

Great post. This is why Padre Pio prayed for his long dead grandfather.

 

[SpidersfromMars]

Great post. This is why Padre Pio prayed for his long dead grandfather.

Yes, I do like that explanation. It certainly helps refute the argument that there’s no point praying for a dead person because their fate is already sealed.

 

[onenow1]

Here’s the thing, if the Blessed Mother is in heaven and she is ! Why would I not pray to her to intercede for us,and the same goes for the saints. We should remember her cousin Elizebeth did the same upon greeting Mary. " Why is it the mother of my Lord should come to me."

Matthew 27: 51-53, 50 And Jesus cried again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit. 51 And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split; 52 the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53 53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

God Bless

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