Praying for the dead

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Can anyone give me verses that we are to pray for the dead besides Job 1:5 to refute Protestant accusations. BTW I do know it is also in our Deutrocanonical books such as Tobias and Machabees, but Protestants don’t really recognize those books.
 
One place is where we find St. Paul praying for a certain Onesiphorus, who, being spoken of in the past tense, seems to be dead:
“May the Lord grant mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me; he was not ashamed of my chains, but when he arrived in Rome he searched for me eagerly and found me—may the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord on that Day—and you well know all the service he rendered at Ephesus” (2 Tim. 1:16–18).
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I spent some time as a hospice chaplain, and I never found anyone who disagreed with Catholic teaching on the afterlife as long as I did not present it in “Catholicese”.

I would remind them that the Book of Revelation tells us that only the perfect can enter the presence of the Throne of the Most High God, and encourage them to ask if they believed they were perfect. They would always tell me no, so I would encourage them to pray that their loved one would have the opportunity to be perfected.

I would also remind them of the only passage where Jesus gives the “recipe” for entrance into heaven, and that is Matthew 25:31-46. It is not religion or church attendance or almsgiving but taking care of the least of his people that determines whether we are saved. The rest is important but only in how it helps us to provide for the needy.

We are saved by faith because true faith demands a response of service. That’s why St. James told us to look to a person’s works of charity if we wanted to judge their faith. And that’s why those who deliberately reject faith by failing to serve others are damned to the “eternal fire” of Gehenna.

So whether it’s kneeling in church to pray for our dead, or sitting at their grave site, we are still praying for the dead. We just do it in different ways.

And a final answer, when all else fails, is that we do not pray for the dead. Jesus came to bring eternal life, so we pray for the living!
 
tobinatorstark said:
Can anyone give me verses that we are to pray for the dead besides Job 1:5 to refute Protestant accusations. BTW I do know it is also in our Deutrocanonical books such as Tobias and Machabees, but Protestants don’t really recognize those books.
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I have a number of references and reasoning in this thread (especially #30, #36, #42, #113, #134) 🙂
 
anyone else have any scripture passages to reflect on praying for dead
 
tobinatorstark said:
Can anyone give me verses that we are to pray for the dead besides Job 1:5 to refute Protestant accusations. BTW I do know it is also in our Deutrocanonical books such as Tobias and Machabees, but Protestants don’t really recognize those books.
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Hebrews 12: 1-4. today’s first reading at the mass.
 
Praying to the dead is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Deuteronomy 18:11 tells us that anyone who “consults with the dead” is “detestable to the Lord.” The story of Saul consulting a medium to bring up the spirit of the dead Samuel resulted in his death “because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance” (1 Samuel 28:1-25; 1 Chronicles 10:13-14). Clearly God has declared that such things are not to be done.

Consider the characteristics of God. God is omnipresent—everywhere at once—and is capable of hearing every prayer in the world (Psalm 139:7-12). A human being, on the other hand, does not possess this attribute. Also, God is the only one with the power to answer prayer. In this regard, God is omnipotent—all powerful (Revelation 19:6). Certainly this is an attribute a human being—dead or alive—does not possess. Finally, God is omniscient—He knows everything (Psalm 147:4-5). Even before we pray God knows our genuine needs, and knows them better then we do. Not only does He know my needs, but He answers my prayers according to His perfect will.

So in relation to the attributes of God, in order for a dead person to receive prayers the dead individual has to hear the prayer, possess the power to answer it, and know how to answer it in a way that is best for the individual praying. Only God hears and answers prayer because of His perfect essence. This perfect essence includes what some theologians call “immanence.” Immanence is the doctrine that affirms God is directly involved with the affairs of mankind (1 Timothy 6:14-15), which includes answering prayer.

Even after a person dies, God is still involved with that person and his destination. Hebrews 9:27 says so: “…man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.” If a person dies in Christ, he goes to heaven to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:1-9, especially verse 8); if a person dies in his sin, he goes to hell, where eventually everyone in hell will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14-15).

A person suffering in agony will not be able to hear or answer a prayer, nor will a person who is living in heavenly bliss with God. If we pray to someone and they are in eternal agony, should we expect them to be able to hear and answer our prayers? Likewise, a person in heaven has no concern for that which is on earth, so should I expect him to be concerned for my temporal problems? God has provided His Son, Jesus Christ, to be the mediator between man and God (1 Timothy 2:5). Since Jesus Christ is the mediator between the two parties, we can go through Jesus to God. Since we can go through the Son of God, why would we want to go through a sinful dead individual, especially when doing so risks the wrath of God on us?
 
dmussaw said:
Praying to the dead is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Deuteronomy 18:11 tells us that anyone who “consults with the dead” is “detestable to the Lord.” The story of Saul consulting a medium to bring up the spirit of the dead Samuel resulted in his death “because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance” (1 Samuel 28:1-25; 1 Chronicles 10:13-14). Clearly God has declared that such things are not to be done.

Consider the characteristics of God. God is omnipresent—everywhere at once—and is capable of hearing every prayer in the world (Psalm 139:7-12). A human being, on the other hand, does not possess this attribute. Also, God is the only one with the power to answer prayer. In this regard, God is omnipotent—all powerful (Revelation 19:6). Certainly this is an attribute a human being—dead or alive—does not possess. Finally, God is omniscient—He knows everything (Psalm 147:4-5). Even before we pray God knows our genuine needs, and knows them better then we do. Not only does He know my needs, but He answers my prayers according to His perfect will.

So in relation to the attributes of God, in order for a dead person to receive prayers the dead individual has to hear the prayer, possess the power to answer it, and know how to answer it in a way that is best for the individual praying. Only God hears and answers prayer because of His perfect essence. This perfect essence includes what some theologians call “immanence.” Immanence is the doctrine that affirms God is directly involved with the affairs of mankind (1 Timothy 6:14-15), which includes answering prayer.

Even after a person dies, God is still involved with that person and his destination. Hebrews 9:27 says so: “…man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.” If a person dies in Christ, he goes to heaven to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:1-9, especially verse 8); if a person dies in his sin, he goes to hell, where eventually everyone in hell will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14-15).

A person suffering in agony will not be able to hear or answer a prayer, nor will a person who is living in heavenly bliss with God. If we pray to someone and they are in eternal agony, should we expect them to be able to hear and answer our prayers? Likewise, a person in heaven has no concern for that which is on earth, so should I expect him to be concerned for my temporal problems? God has provided His Son, Jesus Christ, to be the mediator between man and God (1 Timothy 2:5). Since Jesus Christ is the mediator between the two parties, we can go through Jesus to God. Since we can go through the Son of God, why would we want to go through a sinful dead individual, especially when doing so risks the wrath of God on us?
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:yawn: Standard, well-worn, protestant misconceptions.

Would you care to address the many Scripture passages that have already been offered in this thread, or did you just come in here to blindly rant, rather than discuss? 🙂
 
dmussaw said:
Praying to the dead is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Deuteronomy 18:11 tells us that anyone who “consults with the dead” is “detestable to the Lord.” The story of Saul consulting a medium to bring up the spirit of the dead Samuel resulted in his death “because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance” (1 Samuel 28:1-25; 1 Chronicles 10:13-14). Clearly God has declared that such things are not to be done.

Consider the characteristics of God. God is omnipresent—everywhere at once—and is capable of hearing every prayer in the world (Psalm 139:7-12). A human being, on the other hand, does not possess this attribute. Also, God is the only one with the power to answer prayer. In this regard, God is omnipotent—all powerful (Revelation 19:6). Certainly this is an attribute a human being—dead or alive—does not possess. Finally, God is omniscient—He knows everything (Psalm 147:4-5). Even before we pray God knows our genuine needs, and knows them better then we do. Not only does He know my needs, but He answers my prayers according to His perfect will.

So in relation to the attributes of God, in order for a dead person to receive prayers the dead individual has to hear the prayer, possess the power to answer it, and know how to answer it in a way that is best for the individual praying. Only God hears and answers prayer because of His perfect essence. This perfect essence includes what some theologians call “immanence.” Immanence is the doctrine that affirms God is directly involved with the affairs of mankind (1 Timothy 6:14-15), which includes answering prayer.

Even after a person dies, God is still involved with that person and his destination. Hebrews 9:27 says so: “…man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.” If a person dies in Christ, he goes to heaven to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:1-9, especially verse 8); if a person dies in his sin, he goes to hell, where eventually everyone in hell will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14-15).

A person suffering in agony will not be able to hear or answer a prayer, nor will a person who is living in heavenly bliss with God. If we pray to someone and they are in eternal agony, should we expect them to be able to hear and answer our prayers? Likewise, a person in heaven has no concern for that which is on earth, so should I expect him to be concerned for my temporal problems? God has provided His Son, Jesus Christ, to be the mediator between man and God (1 Timothy 2:5). Since Jesus Christ is the mediator between the two parties, we can go through Jesus to God. Since we can go through the Son of God, why would we want to go through a sinful dead individual, especially when doing so risks the wrath of God on us?
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The question was “praying FOR the dead” not TO the dead.
 
Perhaps dmussaw did not notice that we are discussing praying FOR the dead on this thread, not praying TO the dead.
 
dmussaw said:
Praying to the dead is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Deuteronomy 18:11 tells us that anyone who “consults with the dead” is “detestable to the Lord.” The story of Saul consulting a medium to bring up the spirit of the dead Samuel resulted in his death “because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance” (1 Samuel 28:1-25; 1 Chronicles 10:13-14). Clearly God has declared that such things are not to be done.

Consider the characteristics of God. God is omnipresent—everywhere at once—and is capable of hearing every prayer in the world (Psalm 139:7-12). A human being, on the other hand, does not possess this attribute. Also, God is the only one with the power to answer prayer. In this regard, God is omnipotent—all powerful (Revelation 19:6). Certainly this is an attribute a human being—dead or alive—does not possess. Finally, God is omniscient—He knows everything (Psalm 147:4-5). Even before we pray God knows our genuine needs, and knows them better then we do. Not only does He know my needs, but He answers my prayers according to His perfect will.

So in relation to the attributes of God, in order for a dead person to receive prayers the dead individual has to hear the prayer, possess the power to answer it, and know how to answer it in a way that is best for the individual praying. Only God hears and answers prayer because of His perfect essence. This perfect essence includes what some theologians call “immanence.” Immanence is the doctrine that affirms God is directly involved with the affairs of mankind (1 Timothy 6:14-15), which includes answering prayer.

Even after a person dies, God is still involved with that person and his destination. Hebrews 9:27 says so: “…man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.” If a person dies in Christ, he goes to heaven to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:1-9, especially verse 8); if a person dies in his sin, he goes to hell, where eventually everyone in hell will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14-15).

A person suffering in agony will not be able to hear or answer a prayer, nor will a person who is living in heavenly bliss with God. If we pray to someone and they are in eternal agony, should we expect them to be able to hear and answer our prayers? Likewise, a person in heaven has no concern for that which is on earth, so should I expect him to be concerned for my temporal problems? God has provided His Son, Jesus Christ, to be the mediator between man and God (1 Timothy 2:5). Since Jesus Christ is the mediator between the two parties, we can go through Jesus to God. Since we can go through the Son of God, why would we want to go through a sinful dead individual, especially when doing so risks the wrath of God on us?
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No you misinterpreted the title. Pray for the dead, not to the dead. There is a big difference between to and for.
 
dmussaw said:
Praying to the dead is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Deuteronomy 18:11 tells us that anyone who “consults with the dead” is “detestable to the Lord.” The story of Saul consulting a medium to bring up the spirit of the dead Samuel resulted in his death “because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance” (1 Samuel 28:1-25; 1 Chronicles 10:13-14). Clearly God has declared that such things are not to be done.

…
A person suffering in agony will not be able to hear or answer a prayer, nor will a person who is living in heavenly bliss with God. If we pray to someone and they are in eternal agony, should we expect them to be able to hear and answer our prayers? Likewise, a person in heaven has no concern for that which is on earth, so should I expect him to be concerned for my temporal problems? God has provided His Son, Jesus Christ, to be the mediator between man and God (1 Timothy 2:5). Since Jesus Christ is the mediator between the two parties, we can go through Jesus to God. Since we can go through the Son of God, why would we want to go through a sinful dead individual, especially when doing so risks the wrath of God on us?
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I believe you have a misunderstanding of Catholic theology on this matter. You immediately bring forth an argument designed to counter praying to the dead, when catholic practice is to pray for the dead. Basically change your “to” to “for” and you have a totally different concept.

Praying for the dead has several benefits. One it is an act of charity for those who have no one else to pray for. Here’s the run down of who can pray for who. Those living on earth can pray for others on earth and those who have died already and have not already gone to hell/heaven. However, those who are not in heaven/hell are in purgatory, in which they are purged of their imperfections and are made worthy of heaven. These people need our prayers. Also those in heaven can pray for us also.

So why all this prayer, when we could be praying for ourselves? Well one prayer is charitable. To pray for others is a demonstration of love/care beyond oneself. Just as the saints “living” in heaven can pray for us, we who are privileged to be “living” can pray for those who aren’t in heaven.

Finally to quell any misunderstanding. Praying for the dead is asking God for mercy and care for his entire church family. In Catholicism, all believers, living, dead, and in heaven are part of the same family. As a family we all are entreated to demonstrate our love for one another. One way to do this is to pray for those who have died. Of course we are also still responsible for doing every other kind and charitable dead that is expected of a good faith practicing Christian.
 
I notice that Senior Member Fidelis is arguing the wrong point. The point at issue is praying for the dead and NOT praying to the dead.

Regards
Ignatius
 
Acts ch 9

37 And it came to pass in those days that she was sick and died. Whom when they had washed, they laid her in an upper chamber…

40 And they all being put forth, Peter, kneeling down, prayed. And turning to the body, he said: Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes and, seeing Peter, sat up.
 
IGNAT said:
I notice that Senior Member Fidelis is arguing the wrong point. The point at issue is praying for the dead and NOT praying to the dead.

Regards
Ignatius
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dmussaw needs to start a new thread if he wishes to discuss praying to the dead rather than for the dead. Fidelis, of course, will easily refute him there.
 
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