Praying in Latin

  • Thread starter Thread starter una_fides
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
ByzCathCantor said:
Is there not a UGCC presence in Poland?
Click to expand...
Yes but generally they don’t like the Polish given they were under Polish rule for some time. I remember our priest telling us that when he was dating his wife (back when he was a seminarian or before that) and when he was introduced to the parents their first question was, “are you Polish?”
 
ConstantineTG said:
Yes but generally they don’t like the Polish given they were under Polish rule for some time. I remember our priest telling us that when he was dating his wife (back when he was a seminarian or before that) and when he was introduced to the parents their first question was, “are you Polish?”
Click to expand...
Yes, but at least they seemed to have survived the history. The Lemko Rusyns in southern Poland didn’t fair as well. The ancestral parish of my family is a beautiful Rusyn wood church, with stunning iconography, and is currently a Roman Catholic Church.

But we digress …
 
Anyway, I’d still like to hear comments from our Traditional brethren regarding His Beatitude’s comments on language.
 
Oh, if only there were some simple, musical, non-vulgar language that all Roman Catholics could use for Mass! It would really unifying and save a lot of bother with translations and those little local inventions that excite so much interest in forums like this.

Might even cut down on the letters bishops get about abuses, real or imagined.
 
RogerDeCourcy said:
Oh, if only there were some simple, musical, non-vulgar language that all Roman Catholics could use for Mass! It would really unifying and save a lot of bother with translations and those little local inventions that excite so much interest in forums like this.

Might even cut down on the letters bishops get about abuses, real or imagined.
Click to expand...
You’ll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. 😉

It’s fine to promote praying in Latin, but sarcasm could needlessly upset those who prefer to pray in the perfectly acceptable vernacular and overall turn more people away from Latin.

:twocents:
 
MODERATOR WARNING

Sarcasm will not be tolerated. If there is more, the individuals will be banned. The purpose of the forum is to exchange ideas, not to be sarcastic or dismissive of other people and other ideas.
 
ByzCathCantor said:
Thanks for posting. This article appears to be a companion piece to the CNS video previously linked in this thread, as shown above - thought you might enjoy seeing the video, as well, which also features Fr. Gallagher.
Click to expand...
Credit for the link should go to YoungTrad Cath who created a new thread today.👍
Thanks for the video, I watched it and recalled the commentary that was made by those of you who watched it the first time. around. Being a bit time challenged, I had relied on the commentary. Now I have both.🙂

I also read the article on the Ukrainian liturgy and the pressures being experienced by our brothers and sisters in that community. I do not have an intellectual response to that yet TGConstantine. My initial response was a sense of hurt for the pain and disruption that the community is experiencing.
I hope that people with more experience and wisdom than I have will be able to offer suggestions.
I thought about my love for side by side missal translations, but that doesn’t address the refusal by the young to assist at a liturgy in which the old languages are used. And the willingness of parents to follow their children out of their traditional churches also troubled me. These are such challenging times.
When I went to my first E.F. mass, I expected to be the youngest person there and was very much surprised by the number of young families assisting. The trends between the article on the Ukrainian expereince and my anecdotal account seem to be running in opposite directions, but this observaton is based on very limited experience (two FSSP parishes within the last two years) and may not hold over time.
I do think that we face a tremendous challenge to catechize ourselves and our children. Do you think that that challenge holds equally with the Ukrainian faith community?
Some of my concerns/solutions may be associated with my geographic region. My region is noted for having a population more inclined to self-identify as spiritual, rather than as committed to a specific religion. Strong catechiesis may be especilly helpful in our area. Perhaps you might share some of your experiences with these issues.
 
jeannetherese said:
That is lovely.🙂
Click to expand...
For those interested, there seems to be a more scientific/mathematical explanation for this code compatibility between Spanish and Latin (and French and Latin, for that matter.) This study even shows how newborns are able to discern code-switching to an extent. It’s an interesting study IMO between languages which are syllable-timed, stress-timed, and mora-timed.

sissa.it/cns/Articles/TBC_048.pdf

(Latin, by the way, is a syllable-timed language.)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_languages
 
In the diocese that includes Great Britain and Ireland, “We still don’t have liturgies in English … in all our churches,” said Bishop Hlib Lonchyna.
Click to expand...
“It’s a problem and it’s a blessing,” he said. “It’s a blessing’ because — especially in London — new immigrants feel at home in the church.
Click to expand...
But some parish priests cannot speak English well enough to celebrate English-language liturgies, and some elderly Ukrainian Catholics “get very tense when things get celebrated in English,” he told Catholic News Service.
Click to expand...
“Because of this mentality, we have lost a lot of people,” he added.
Click to expand...
This appears to have happened back in the 60’s and 70’s here in the U.S. as well, when Latin was being replaced with English. (And Spanish too, but not so much.)

I guess the theory was that given enough time, the people would return and be better off after they returned. But it turned out that many, if not most, turned to other English-based religions. Or remained stayed away altogether, with their children only remotely understanding Christianity, much less the Catholic liturgy.
 
acarlson said:
You’ll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. 😉

It’s fine to promote praying in Latin, but sarcasm could needlessly upset those who prefer to pray in the perfectly acceptable vernacular and overall turn more people away from Latin.

:twocents:
Click to expand...
I guess you’re right. I could be turning into a testy trad, if not an downright angry one 🙂

[reaches for bottle of brandy]
*
[sip]*

Ahh. Now, what was the argumen’, aggumen’, arrrgumen’, problem again?
Prayin’ in Latin? In the Roman Catholic Church? The only riposte is: Good grief, why not?
 
RogerDeCourcy said:
I guess you’re right. I could be turning into a testy trad, if not an downright angry one 🙂

[reaches for bottle of brandy]
*
[sip]*

Ahh. Now, what was the argumen’, aggumen’, arrrgumen’, problem again?
Prayin’ in Latin? In the Roman Catholic Church? The only riposte is: Good grief, why not?
Click to expand...
Hmm, maybe because the Church allows for the use of the vernacular?

So, why not both?
 
Ah, but dear brother, I think the problem is, there are those who, when the return of Latin is proposed for the Roman Catholic mass, the response is Ach, NNOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooo!

[Clutches throat, falls over]

Seriously, I read at least one case where there were screeches from the pews. 🤷
 
una_fides said:
New website for praying in Latin full of countless prayers and resources:
sites.google.com/site/prayinglatin/

Explains why to pray in Latin, how to pray in Latin, and has sections with many prayers, meditations, as well as audio. Definitely worth checking out and forwarding to anyone who may have interest!
Click to expand...
Thank you for the information. It is nice to know there is information available.
 
RogerDeCourcy said:
Ah, but dear brother, I think the problem is, there are those who, when the return of Latin is proposed for the Roman Catholic mass, the response is Ach, NNOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooo!

[Clutches throat, falls over]

Seriously, I read at least one case where there were screeches from the pews. 🤷
Click to expand...
Some Latin is good but I understand the response when a push for nothing but Latin is called for.
 
Friar David,
I tend to agree with you. However, based on my own experiences, I do believe that Roger also has a point. Some people hear “Latin” and get kind of nutty- screaming and whining that “we are going backwards”, “this is not the 'spirit of VII”, etc.
These same people though, are the ones who will try to incorporate every language they can think of into a litugy.

An example, I was just a a special Jubilee Mass. Most of the 700+ attendees were of white, European decent. About 10% represented many other cultures, Hispanic, Asain, Middle-Eastern, Pacific Islander, & African
The Gospel was read in Spanish. The prayers of the faithful were read in English, Polish, Vietnamese, Spanish, Nigerian and American Sign Language (even though the Mass was being interpreted for the few in attendance who where deaf/hearing impaired).

The ordinary parts of the Mass were in English, except for the extened verses of the “Lamb of God” which alternated Spanish & English.

No Latin, anywhere! 😦 And this is what I find sad. I am not a huge fan of Latin, and would not want a whole Mass done in it, but I see no reason at all why some people have such an aversion to it when they think what I describe above is wonderful. 🤷
Friar_David_O.Carm said:
Some Latin is good but I understand the response when a push for nothing but Latin is called for.
Click to expand...
 
It will be problematic is all services were taught in Latin, unless Latin was taught in schools or other avenues. If it taught in Latin, it will move the world back another century where well to do and wealthy understood, read and wrote in Latin. Unless the church plans to offer lessons to the poor.
 
Well, lets turn it on its head. Let’s say your local mass is said in your local language. For 25 years. After the first fews weeks you understand every word and know the responses. What’s left after that?

Seeking your own sanctification.

The priest is the one offering the mass. We merely attend. ‘Assisting’ is based on a French word, ‘assister’, which in French means, ‘to attend’. But people think they really have to be following along every word, to help out, I think.

The priest is the only one whose actions are essential. The Latin Mass, with its periods of quiet, lets one reflect on what’s going on and impresses upon one that something wonderful is going on up there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top