Praying in tongues/speaking/and movements?

[pablope]

I’m sorry about my last thread I started. It was “was Martin Luther evil?”. I should have worded it differently I’m sorry if it offended anyone.

I’ve been together with a girl for almost 2 years now. She goes to a non denominational church. But it practices speaking in tongue,but also baptist and other churches ideas. I was wondering why is there speaking in tongue?where in the bible?why do they do it ect…? I’ve talked to her about it,and it always sounds like rubbish to me like a joke. Sometimes there church members get up,and do weird ritual looking movements. I’ve looked up different bible verses that deals with speaking in tongue,and it doesn’t add up at all. So someone please explain in detail.

I do not think they were speaking in tongues…but were instead “praying” in tongues. Speaking in tongues was a gift to the apostles at pentecost…where they were given this gift, in that whenever they began to fan out and spread Christianity…they were understood by anyone, no matter what language they spoke.

I am not sure what is the Church’s teaching if this gift is still given to today to those worthy.

At least from a catholic perspective, I have seen this in charismatic catholics…it sounds like gibberish…but it is understood only by God, unless there is someone with the gift of interpretation who could interpret it. It happens when you surrender your self totally in prayer and in praising God, blot out all your thoughts and you are in a state of grace, and Holy Spirit touches you to have this gift.

 

[graceandglory]

I’ll be honest with you most of the people I’ve heard speaking in tongues are speaking something that sounds vaguely like Hebrew (shaddai is one of the favored words I hear).QUOTE]

I always heard Japanese makes of cars and motorcycles: Yamaha car hondala.

 

[josephback]

I think that this is an infection that affects Catholics and Lutherans that they want to be wannabe Pentecostal because they think that the Pentecostals have more fun.

I don’t want to have fun, I want to make it to heaven! Pentecostalism to me would be confusing. I grew up in a Pentecostal/Evangelical household. It’s the Catholic Church for me!

 

[josephback]

I’ve been together with a girl for almost 2 years now. She goes to a non denominational church. But it practices speaking in tongue,but also baptist and other churches ideas. I was wondering why is there speaking in tongue?where in the bible?why do they do it ect…? I’ve talked to her about it,and it always sounds like rubbish to me like a joke. Sometimes there church members get up,and do weird ritual looking movements. I’ve looked up different bible verses that deals with speaking in tongue,and it doesn’t add up at all. So someone please explain in detail.

Speaking in tongues at Pentecost was different than what most Pentecostals and such practice today. Each tongue was a known language so that people who spoke it could hear the Gospel. It had a purpose.

There’s also a reference by Paul somewhere to speaking and the need for an interpreter. Some use this as a verse to support a “private prayer language.” I don’t know much about that. I’ve always been sorta skeptical about the modern versions of ‘tongues’ though. It seems more like entertainment a lot of times. Not saying it can’t be real, but to me I’m just reminded of the Bible’s words “they will run after signs and wonders”. I think we focus on the seeming miraculous and not enough on Christ. That said, you should invite your girlfriend to attend Mass with you. You’ll have to face religion issues sooner or later. May God be with you.

 

[joclucsylv]

Speaking in tongues at Pentecost was different than what most Pentecostals and such practice today. Each tongue was a known language so that people who spoke it could hear the Gospel. It had a purpose.

There’s also a reference by Paul somewhere to speaking and the need for an interpreter. Some use this as a verse to support a “private prayer language.” I don’t know much about that. I’ve always been sorta skeptical about the modern versions of ‘tongues’ though. It seems more like entertainment a lot of times. Not saying it can’t be real, but to me I’m just reminded of the Bible’s words “they will run after signs and wonders”. I think we focus on the seeming miraculous and not enough on Christ. That said, you should invite your girlfriend to attend Mass with you. You’ll have to face religion issues sooner or later. May God be with you.

josephback could you please shed further light on Pentecost and that each tongue was a known language so people who spoke it could hear the gospel. Some Apostolic Pentecostals have been placed in my life and they quote Acts all the time. I would just like to know more about it. Thank you!

 

[po18guy]

josephback could you please shed further light on Pentecost and that each tongue was a known language so people who spoke it could hear the gospel. Some Apostolic Pentecostals have been placed in my life and they quote Acts all the time. I would just like to know more about it. Thank you!

The second chapter of Acts. It’s short, and a quick read - more like a paragraph, really. You may also read about the other gifts of the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 14. There is a lot of information in those two short chapters.

 

[Bluegoat]

Thought this article might be interesting to some:

Speaking In Tongues

Among it’s points:
*
The highly respected 1972 study of John P. Kildahl (The Psychology of Speaking in Tongues) concludes that “from a linguistic point of view, religiously inspired glossolalic utterances have the same general characteristics as those that are not religiously inspired.” In fact, glossolalia is a “human phenomenon, not limited to Christianity nor even to religious behavior.” (Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements by Spittler, P. 340).*

 

[josephback]

josephback could you please shed further light on Pentecost and that each tongue was a known language so people who spoke it could hear the gospel. Some Apostolic Pentecostals have been placed in my life and they quote Acts all the time. I would just like to know more about it. Thank you!

Check out Acts 2:7-12. Peter was speaking to the crowd and they say something like “Are not these men all Galileans? We know by their accent. Then how is it we hear them each one in his own tongue?”. The miracle was GIVING PETER and the others A TOOL TO FURTHER THE GOSPEL! It wasn’t just for fun or to look cool. Paul also talks somewhere about tongues with an interpreter so that might be different, but it’s worth looking into. Altogether I’m very skeptical of most Pentecostal “tongues”. Not saying it couldn’t be real, but…tongues on the day of Pentecost was different. Someone pointed it out to me.

 

[po18guy]

From the article (bolding mine):

Experts in the field of linguistics have diligently studied the phenomenon of glossolalia over a period of many years. One of the early investigations was made in the early 1960’s by Eugene A. Nida. He provided a detailed list of reasons why glossolalia cannot be human language. Another early study, that of W.A. Wolfram in the year 1966, also concluded that glossolalia lacks the basic elements of human language as a system of coherent communication.

In 1 Corinthians 13:1, Saint Paul writes: “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.” This is entirely consistent with the contents of the report.

 

[valentino]

SteveVh: You say you speak in tongues.How did this come about?Did it first come out in audible speach?And if it did did you know what you said?If you pray in tongues and don’t know what you’re saying whats the point?Also maybe your saying something bad.Are your vocalizations always the same or do you say different phrases?How do you know for sure that its the HS ?Surely you didn’t ask the HS to let you pray in tongues.

 

[valentino]

Tyuiop411;7870816:

I’ll be honest with you most of the people I’ve heard speaking in tongues are speaking something that sounds vaguely like Hebrew (shaddai is one of the favored words I hear).QUOTE]

I always heard Japanese makes of cars and motorcycles: Yamaha car hondala.

why would anyone speak of cars when he’s speaking in tongues?

 

[MissionDiakonos]

It is always important to be very very careful with this gift. As Paul says there must be an interpreter; if there is not interpreter the person should remain silent in the church. A priest I know of from another country and who was raised in an even smaller village that spoke a very primitive dialect went to one of these charasmatic prayer meetings where a woman was speaking in tongues and the priest recognized what the woman was “speaking” as his native dialect. And when he asked someone what she was doing the person said that the woman was praising God in tongues. The priest looked at the person and told her that the woman was indeed not praising but rather cursing God.
In another instance, I was at a charasmatic prayer meeting where awoman was praying in tongues, again with no interpreter, and when she finished interpreted herself by saying that we do not need the Church. After correcting the group in this obvious error, and this group was not open to fraternal correction, I have stayed far away from it and have warned others about it as well. So we need to be ever careful which spirit to which we allow ourselves to be open.

 

[po18guy]

It is always important to be very very careful with this gift. As Paul says there must be an interpreter; if there is not interpreter the person should remain silent in the church. A priest I know of from another country and who was raised in an even smaller village that spoke a very primitive dialect went to one of these charasmatic prayer meetings where a woman was speaking in tongues and the priest recognized what the woman was “speaking” as his native dialect. And when he asked someone what she was doing the person said that the woman was praising God in tongues. The priest looked at the person and told her that the woman was indeed not praising but rather cursing God.
In another instance, I was at a charasmatic prayer meeting where awoman was praying in tongues, again with no interpreter, and when she finished interpreted herself by saying that we do not need the Church. After correcting the group in this obvious error, and this group was not open to fraternal correction, I have stayed far away from it and have warned others about it as well. So we need to be ever careful which spirit to which we allow ourselves to be open.

Thus the absolute need for interpretation. We are surrounded by spirits that seek to lead us - and only the Holy Sprit leads to unity. Thus, the other gifts are more to be desired.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Thus the absolute need for interpretation. We are surrounded by spirits that seek to lead us - and only the Holy Sprit leads to unity. Thus, the other gifts are more to be desired.

Personally, when I read Corinthians, I clearly see that Paul was AGAINST speaking in tongues. In fact, the whole chapter is a tirade against people who insisted in speaking in tongues. It make me laugh - Paul was a really funny and sarcastic guy!

As for the part in Acts where the disciples receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues, they were really talking in a lot of different foreign languages so that people from foreign lands could understand them, which would be later necessary as they spread the gospel throughout the world.

It was not the gibberish Paul was complaining about in Corinthians.

HERE IS A Quote from ACTS 2:

"4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.

6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken."

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

I am a cradle Catholic and I received the gift of tongues five years ago. There is a lot of confusion concerning this gift and, I believe, a lot of fraud associated with it when you attend a denomination which touts this gift as the end-all as evidence of your faith. In other words, if you don’t speak in tongues then something is wrong with you. It places a lot of pressure on those people to pretend in order to fit in.

But it is a true gift and very real. I speak in tongues when praying for people because it is the Holy Spirit that is actually doing the speaking and He can do a better job than I. It is a beautiful gift when kept in perspective. St. Paul tells us that it is the least of the gifts.
As far as having an interpreter, it really depends on how it is being used. Most of the time I pray in tongues silently, or even in my car. I had a priest tell me to use this gift as the real beauty of it is that Satan cannot understand it. It is an angelic language.

I find it kind of funny that Catholics think it strange as we are the Church to which this gift was first given. There are many types of “tongues” which are used for various purposes, which I won’t take the time to go into now. But it really is nothing of which to be afraid.

This reminds me of Romans 8:26:

In the same way, the Spirit too comes to the aid of our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit itself intercedes with inexpressible groanings.

To clarify:

Praying in tongues, aka “prayer language” is a gift of the Spirit which may sound like gibberish. It can also sound like a language. The person is humbling themselves enough to allow the Holy Spirit to intercede in prayer. It is a gift which builds up the individual who has received the gift. It builds humility and faith-- I think that is the point (to answer valentino). Generally one who prays in tongues has a very active prayer life; it is not likely that they are saying something bad. But it is easy enough to test the fruit and use discernment. Though people without the gift may be skeptical, a person who has received the gift is no longer skeptical… they know that God has done something in them. Yet, we do not see a lot written about in saints lives. Why? Because it is deeply personal and requires humility, so it is not something that a person generally advertises. By the way, Fr. John Hampsch who is a priest in good standing with the Catholic Charismatic Renewal personally testified that Blessed John Paul II had a prayer language.

Speaking in tongues is speaking another language. It is used in group setting and there should always be an interpretation. According to scripture, it is for the unbelievers who witness the gift. I respectfully disagree with the comment that Paul was against speaking in tongues, he merely emphasized the importance of caution, discernment and striving for the higher gifts (especially prophecy). How could anyone who is a servant of God be opposed to one of God’s gifts? St. Paul says in 1 Cor 14:5 “I should like all of you to speak in tongues…” and he also says that he “speaks tongues more than any of you”. In the end, he is quite clear saying, “So, brothers, strive eagerly to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues, but everything must be done properly and in order.”

 

[MissionDiakonos]

For too many people, though, it becomes a spiritual high they seek. I have found they seek the “gift”, the creature/creation, over the creator. This, then, becomes their drug of choice, and are frustrated if they cannot find it on a particular day or at a particular time. I have also found an arrogance among many charasmatics claiming to have the gift of tongues that they are on a higher spiritual plain than others, which is very dangerous. Like the woman cursing rather than praising God was only recognized by a good and holy priest; the woman self-interpreting that we do not need the Church, was so self-righteous and superior, that she nor the group was willing to listen to the truth in correction. There needs to be absolute humility, submission to a good spiritual director, preferably a good and holy priest or deacon, and above all there must be a comitment to build up, not tear down, to bring together, not to divide.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

For too many people, though, it becomes a spiritual high they seek. I have found they seek the “gift”, the creature/creation, over the creator. This, then, becomes their drug of choice, and are frustrated if they cannot find it on a particular day or at a particular time. I have also found an arrogance among many charasmatics claiming to have the gift of tongues that they are on a higher spiritual plain than others, which is very dangerous. Like the woman cursing rather than praising God was only recognized by a good and holy priest; the woman self-interpreting that we do not need the Church, was so self-righteous and superior, that she nor the group was willing to listen to the truth in correction. There needs to be absolute humility, submission to a good spiritual director, preferably a good and holy priest or deacon, and above all there must be a comitment to build up, not tear down, to bring together, not to divide.

I agree with you. In our humanity, we can quite easily be tempted to seek the gifts, not the Giver. This is quite the opposite of what God wants, of course. And, of course, acts of pride, like what you describe, is completely contrary to the workings of the Holy Spirit. It takes great spiritual discipline and discernment to use the gifts, above all one must maintain humility as you say. However,my experience has been that the gifts of the Holy Spirit can be used for great good in the Church and among her people. I have seen many people healed of incurable diseases and cancers which have been deemed terminal by doctors. I’ve witnessed many miracles of God at the hands of one who yields to the Holy Spirit. There are those who are skeptical and I guess I can’t blame them, but for me the good fruit is apparent. I sincerely believe that God answered Pope John XXIII’s prayer for a new Pentecost at the opening of Vatican II. (Many people believe the CCR is just a 20th century development and an imitation of pentecostalism, but often they do not realize that the Pope actually prayed for a renewal of the Holy Spirit back in 1961)

To your second point about humility, obedience and unity, I could not have said it better myself. Very, very, true.

 

[ajpirc]

Many Protestants at my school say “a man that speaks in tongues came to my church service this Sunday.” But they also said they couldn’t understand him. Would this man actually be speaking in tongues even though they didn’t understand him?

Also, I thought tongues was just the gift of the Holy Spirit that allowed early Catholics such as Peter to understand and speak the languages of others. Such as understanding French, Spanish, English, Italian, Latin, and Greek all in a short period of time. Is this true? Is this how many bishops including Pope Benedict know so many languages?

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Many Protestants at my school say “a man that speaks in tongues came to my church service this Sunday.” But they also said they couldn’t understand him. Would this man actually be speaking in tongues even though they didn’t understand him?

Also, I thought tongues was just the gift of the Holy Spirit that allowed early Catholics such as Peter to understand and speak the languages of others. Such as understanding French, Spanish, English, Italian, Latin, and Greek all in a short period of time. Is this true? Is this how many bishops including Pope Benedict know so many languages?

Speaking in tongues (if it is authentic) will always have an interpreter. So, while the bulk of the crowd may not have understood this man speaking, say, Russian, there should have been someone there who said to the group what he was saying. If it went without interpretation, it was not speaking in tongues. If it sounded like gibberish, it was praying in tongues though I would be skeptical if the man had presented himself as praying in tongues. If some people just overheard him praying privately, then I am not as skeptical.

Some people believe that speaking in tongues was a gift for only the early Church. I do not believe this. There is a man named Stanley Villavicencio, who travels throughout the world spreading the Divine Mercy message. He states that when he goes to other countries where he does not speak the language that he just speaks his native tongue… but people hear their own language. Believe him or not, but after listening to his story, I am pretty convinced that God is doing something amazing in him. As to the Popes and Bishops, I’m pretty sure they learn language the old fashioned way. But you never know what God will do…

 

[Bluegoat]

Here is my basic problem with what is commonly called speaking in tongues - it has no tradition in the Church before it became popular at the end of the 19th/beginning of the 20th century. Before that people understood it to mean speaking in an actual language that one did not know, or being heard in that language, and there are still miracle of that type that happen occasionally.

Modern mainline Christians didn’t even adopt this until the 1960’s.