Praying the Hail Mary

[Fidelis]

Would your salvation be affected because you stopped praying [saying Grace] before meals? Or just before meals in public?

Or even if you didn’t have your own copy of the Scriptures to study. Would that affect your salvation?

Before you answer too quickly, keep in mind that generations of Christians who lived before the invention of the printing press never dreamed of owning their own Bible (if they could even read, or had time to read it, or had the critical skills to follow St. Paul’s arguments, or…).

Were none of these folks saved?

Something can be very, very beneficial to have for our spiritual life without being absolutely necessary.

 

[Fidelis]

I wonder what’s the point of the question.

We may never know…

 

[misslollipops]

Here’s another question:

Suppose you never read the Bible. Never heard of it. Does THAT affect your salvation?

If so then what of the people who lived ‘before’ the Bible was compiled? What of the ones who may have lived after but never had the opportunity to hear it?

Is the actual physical Bible and either ‘hearing it’ or ‘reading it’ essential for salvation? Can one be saved without ‘the Bible book?’

People do not need a bible to be saved.
However reading the bible causes me to grow in maturity.
It also works in my santification process.
By reading it I grow in my knowlege of truth.
God also speaks to me through His word.
While I used to say pray the rosary almost every night, I don’t recall growing in my faith because of it.
I didn’t grow in knowledge of truth and I don’t think it sanctified me either.
That is the reason for the question.

 

[jrabs]

While I used to say pray the rosary almost every night, I don’t recall growing in my faith because of it.
I didn’t grow in knowledge of truth and I don’t think it sanctified me either.
That is the reason for the question.

Perhaps the rosary you said was not for your betterment but for the sanctification of those you said it for at the time? For the intentions of someone in need?

We will never know the answer to that. But I do think that all prayer serves a good purpose for someone and is never wasted.

 

[YADA]

People do not need a bible to be saved.
However reading the bible causes me to grow in maturity.
It also works in my santification process.
By reading it I grow in my knowlege of truth.
God also speaks to me through His word.
While I used to say pray the rosary almost every night, I don’t recall growing in my faith because of it.
I didn’t grow in knowledge of truth and I don’t think it sanctified me either.
That is the reason for the question.

So can you see that others may have had a different experience when praying the Rosary? Others are brought closer to Jesus and are strenghtened in their faith life with this deeply contemplative [adn scriptually based] prayer. No one is telling you that you have to pray the rosary or any other prayer…

A priest once told me to “Pray as you can, do not pray as you can’t”…The important thing is to pray…to contemplete the scriptures and grow closer to our Lord…what works for me may not work for you…

I may be incorrect, but reading your posts it appears that you believe that the Rosary [and many other things ‘catholic’] are sinful, pagan and/or just plain wrong…

Even your about scripture

reading the bible causes me to grow in maturity…** grow in my knowlege of truth**…God also speaks to me through His word.

implies that the Rosary cannot act in a similar and equally beneficial manner for others…

Did you see my post on the Rosary and what it means?

 

[jpusateri]

People do not need a bible to be saved.
However reading the bible causes me to grow in maturity.
It also works in my santification process.
By reading it I grow in my knowlege of truth.
God also speaks to me through His word.
While I used to say pray the rosary almost every night, I don’t recall growing in my faith because of it.
I didn’t grow in knowledge of truth and I don’t think it sanctified me either.
That is the reason for the question.

If God speaks to you through his Word, you should immerse yourself in it. Beware however the many many many different ways of understanding it and applying it to your life.

Since Jesus himself is not standing next to me to tell me what it means, I have to rely on the authority He established with the ability to do so. The Catholic Church.

Evaluating whether the rosary has sanctified you is difficult. If you do not see any change in you, then perhaps it did not. The issue for me is not “can the rosary sanctify me?” but “if it doesn’t what am I doing wrong?”

God does not force this change, he invites us to embrace it. If we have not changed, then perhaps we did not allow it.

The starting point is “God is good and desires the greatest good for me.” So the tools he gives us are efficacious. The only thing that can go wrong is how we use them.

 

[YADA]

Perhaps the rosary you said was not for your betterment but for the sanctification of those you said it for at the time? For the intentions of someone in need?

We will never know the answer to that. But I do think that all prayer serves a good purpose for someone and is never wasted.

A very good point…and it is possible that Misslollipops may have also benefited in ways she might not have realized at the time…

It may also just be that the prayers were never explained properly…poor catechisis lays the foundation for satan to enter in and cause doubt and seperation from God to occur…if the prayers were explained as being a superstition [whether directly ir implied] then it is not hard to see why a person could be than strengthened in the process of prayer…

 

[heisenburg]

If I may…

saying the prayers on the rosary for the sake of saying them is never going to cause you to grow. While i do not know your personal experience, if you were just told to ‘say the rosary’ and all you ever did was pray the prayers, it is true, growth will be limited at best…

This is the purpose for the mysteries of each decade. Long before the printing press, and even longer before literacy was a norm, people could not read the bible. But they could use an item that is easily reproducible like the rosary to help teach the stories of the bible…

Example…
The Sorrowful mysteries…
The first decade, though we pray our fathers and hail Marys, we are contemplating the meaning behind Jesus’s Agony in the Garden
The second decade: while we are praying our fathers and hail Marys, we are contemplating his scourge at the pillars
the third decade, we contemplate his crowning of thorns
the forth, his carrying of the cross
the final decade, his crucifixion…

Some people take it further and have a meaning from the bible for each bead…

There are many different ways to pray the rosary… But the rosary is more than just a set of beads we pray on… it is in fact the first portable bible.

Saying you did not grow while properly praying the rosary, is like saying you did not grow while properly reading the bible…

The Catholic church promotes the rosary not as a way for us poor catholic to “worship Mary” it is our witness tract. It was the gospel tracts passed out by the church in the 1st century through today… The Rosary is the bible (all be it a much abbreviate)…

The rosary is PROOF the catholic church promotes sacred scripture… If the Church really did try and ‘hide’ the bible from everyone… why did it let the rosary exist…

In Christ

 

[Sean_Boyle]

While I used to say pray the rosary almost every night, I don’t recall growing in my faith because of it.
I didn’t grow in knowledge of truth and I don’t think it sanctified me either.

Who is to blame for this lack of growth that you desired though the rosary? It wasn’t God’s, it wasn’t the prayer that you prayed, it wasn’t you as a child of grace, that only leaves your understanding of the rosary to be lacking.

How can we help that understanding in praying the rosary so your spiritual growth can continue to grow and mature?

 

[jmcrae]

People do not need a bible to be saved.
However reading the bible causes me to grow in maturity.
It also works in my santification process.
By reading it I grow in my knowlege of truth.
God also speaks to me through His word.
While I used to say pray the rosary almost every night, I don’t recall growing in my faith because of it.

Were you meditating on the mysteries themselves, or just repeating the prayers by rote?

I find that it makes a huge difference to my prayer life if I am actually praying the mysteries (which we also find in the Bible either directly or indirectly), instead of just reciting the prayers by themselves.

 

[misslollipops]

If I may…

saying the prayers on the rosary for the sake of saying them is never going to cause you to grow.
This is the purpose for the mysteries of each decade. Long before the printing press, and even longer before literacy was a norm, people could not read the bible. But they could use an item that is easily reproducible like the rosary to help teach the stories of the bible…

Example…
The Sorrowful mysteries…
The first decade, though we pray our fathers and hail Marys, we are contemplating the meaning behind Jesus’s Agony in the Garden
The second decade: while we are praying our fathers and hail Marys, we are contemplating his scourge at the pillars
the third decade, we contemplate his crowning of thorns
the forth, his carrying of the cross
the final decade, his crucifixion…

Some people take it further and have a meaning from the bible for each bead…

There are many different ways to pray the rosary… But the rosary is more than just a set of beads we pray on… it is in fact the first portable bible.

Saying you did not grow while properly praying the rosary, is like saying you did not grow while properly reading the bible…

The Catholic church promotes the rosary not as a way for us poor catholic to “worship Mary” it is our witness tract. It was the gospel tracts passed out by the church in the 1st century through today… The Rosary is the bible (all be it a much abbreviate)…

The rosary is PROOF the catholic church promotes sacred scripture… If the Church really did try and ‘hide’ the bible from everyone… why did it let the rosary exist…

In Christ

Now I am understanding the Catholic position a little better.
The rosary is your bible. Now I understand. Thanks

On a side note, I never contemplated any mysteries while reciting the rosary. I was never taught to do so. Maybe that is why it never became my bible.

 

[Linnyo]

Now I am understanding the Catholic position a little better.
The rosary is your bible. Now I understand. Thanks

On a side note, I never contemplated any mysteries while reciting the rosary. I was never taught to do so. Maybe that is why it never became my bible.

I would never consider it to ‘be the Bible’. That would not do justice to the ‘written Bible’. I think people may see it as a representation of the Bible. Like a way of summarising the main events in the Bible. My Bible is vital in my journey towards Christ.

 

[jpusateri]

Now I am understanding the Catholic position a little better.
The rosary is your bible. Now I understand. Thanks

I am not sure how to take that. Out of charity I will assume that you meant it honestly.

The mysteries of the rosary is a shortened version of the gospels. So when you contemplate the mysteries, you contemplate the life of Christ.

The phrase “the rosary is the bible” should be understood as “the rosary is biblical”

 

[Mannyfit75]

Now I am understanding the Catholic position a little better.
The rosary is your bible. Now I understand. Thanks

In a way it is** partially true **because the 4 Mysterious of the Bible are taken from the Bible. I recall back in the pass thread that I learn the life of Jesus Christ by praying the Rosary, particularly the Joyeful, Sorrow, and Glorious Mysterious. The rosary is more of a mediative prayer than what most Protestants think of it.

On a side note, I never contemplated any mysteries while reciting the rosary. I was never taught to do so. Maybe that is why it never became my bible.

I have a different affect. By praying the rosary, I been reading the Bible. In fact, I added Scripture Reading with the rosary. Ever heard of the Scriptural Rosary?

You say like a verse about Jesus resurrection in the Bible and then recite the Hail Mary.

or a Scripture Rosary Reading, where you read the Bible like the Resurrection of Jesus Christ by mediating on the 1st Glorious Mysterious and then pray the Our Father, and the Ten Hail Marys.

 

[DebChris]

I just started reading True Devotion to Mary. God did not need to use Mary in order to bring salvation to the world, but he did. The name Mary means ocean. She is the acqueduct by which the Living Water comes to us.
No, we do not have to pray the Hail Mary in order to be saved. Yet where we find Mary, we also find our saviour, who is Jesus Christ, Emmanuel, God with us. It is through Mary’s openness and humility that we have the son. Through her words, John the Baptist was sanctified during the Vistitation. At her request, Jesus changed water into wine at Cana. By accepting Mary into our heart as our mother, we make even more room for Jesus to dwell. Mary’s will is perfectly conformed to that of God and she guides us into conforming our own will with that of her son, Jesus Christ. By listening to our mother, we are better able to listen to her son.
The Hail Mary is biblical. Pray it as part of the Angelus. “The Angel of the Lord declared unto Mary. And she conceived of the Holy Spirit.” “Behold the handmaid of the Lord. Let it be done to me according to thy word.” “And the word was made flesh and dwelt among us.”
Jesus will deny nothing to his mother because she first denied nothing of herself to God. When we pray the Hail Mary, she intercedes on our behalf.

 

[jmcrae]

On a side note, I never contemplated any mysteries while reciting the rosary.

This explains why it never made any sense to you. The Mysteries are the essential element - everything else is just timing devices for the Mysteries, and to keep the “wandering” part of your mind busy so that you don’t get distracted while contemplating the Mysteries.

(It would be like opening your Bible and turning each page after a short interval of silence, but not actually reading the words on the page.)

 

[jpusateri]

This explains why it never made any sense to you. The Mysteries are the essential element - everything else is just timing devices for the Mysteries, and to keep the “wandering” part of your mind busy so that you don’t get distracted while contemplating the Mysteries.

(It would be like opening your Bible and turning each page after a short interval of silence, but not actually reading the words on the page.)

Great image. Thank you.

 

[YADA]

Now I am understanding the Catholic position a little better.
The rosary is your bible.*** Now I understand. Thanks***

On a side note, I never contemplated any mysteries while reciting the rosary. I was never taught to do so. Maybe that is why it never became my bible.

That is not what the poster meant, Misslollipops and I am sure you realize that…

Did you see my post explaining the Joyful, Sorrowful, Luminous and Glorious mysteries? If I am wrong, you can tell me but it seems you are projecting your angst [and hate of] what catholics believe sarcastically here…

The point is that these msyteries are scriptural. You might describe it as a form of bible study and prayer combined…

It is not the “Bible” [which of course is a book compiled, preserved and handed on by the Church you seem to dispise] in its entirety nor does any catholic claim it to be such…

The Rosary does come to the people as a common form or scriptural prayer…The religious [priests, monks and nuns] pray the Psalms [all 150 of them] continuously and have for centuries [long before there was a Protestant movement]. Bibles were costly and not readily available to the common people [who also were not able to read - illiterate - not stupid]. Memorizing all 150 Psalms was not really doable for the average Christian. So the Rosary developed as a devotion comprised of biblical prayers, numbering 150 where by the people could unite themselves in prayer, contemplating the life of Jesus.

The Rosary has carried over from the time before the printing press and the rise of literacy to a deeply loved devotion to Jesus directly because it has brought so many people to love Jesus and be united with Him…

 

[DebChris]

People do not need a bible to be saved.
However reading the bible causes me to grow in maturity.
It also works in my santification process.
By reading it I grow in my knowlege of truth.
God also speaks to me through His word.
While I used to say pray the rosary almost every night, I don’t recall growing in my faith because of it.
I didn’t grow in knowledge of truth and I don’t think it sanctified me either.
That is the reason for the question.

I was reared in a family where the rosary was recited every night after supper. The mysteries were never mentioned and we concluded the rosary with the Act of Contrition. It can become a rote exercise, a means of simply “doing devotions” rather than praying. The mysteries enrich our recitation of the rosary as we meditate upon the gospel represented by each. It is a way of honoring Mary while meditating on the life of Christ.
I also read the Bible daily through the Liturgy of the Hours, especially the Office of Readings. The rosary began because peasants working the farms around monasteries did not have time to recite the 150 psalms of the Bible. Today, with our literacy, we can prepare our hearts through recitation of the rosary in order to more fully receive the word of God we read in the Bible or hear the scriptures read at Mass.

 

[Fidelis]

Now I am understanding the Catholic position a little better.
The rosary is your bible. Now I understand. Thanks

LOL! No, you don’t understand.

The Rosary does not replace the Bible for Catholics, but both the Rosary and the Bible are different ways of meditating on the Word of God. If you come right down to it, the Rosary is somewhat dependent on the Scriptures because both the prayers and the mysteries/meditations are largely taken right from Scripture.

I think if you eschew the either/or mindset you seem to be laboring under, you may find you understand the Catholic Faith a little better. With Catholics, when it comes to the good things God gives us to grow closer to him and to deepen our understanding of him, it’s not either/or, but both/and!