Praying to saints #2

[SeekerOfTruth7]

It is both. There doesn’t need to be an either or. We should be praying for each other and the Church, but also asking others to pray for us as well, especially when it is something specific, such as an illness, heartache, and the list goes on and on.
Now, one doesn’t have to pray to the Saints. I think you are confusing prayer to the Saints as if it is required of everyone. No it is not. One can only pray to God if they wish and that is holy and good.
But we shouldn’t forget the amazing gift we have of asking others to pray for us.
St James 5:16 says: "Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful."
Now the question is, who is more righteous, a sinful human, or a righteous saint? The answer is clear. So, since all Saint in heaven are still alive, since God is the God of the living and not of the dead, and they are more pure, righteous, and holy than we are, and since we know that the prayer of a righteous person is powerful, then we can see that asking the Saints to pray for us is very powerful, even more powerful that our own prayers.
It is simple, biblical, and truth.

 

[annad347]

Now, one doesn’t have to pray to the Saints.

Thank you, now maybe people will stop looking at me like I have two heads when I say I don’t pray to saints… then again maybe the wont. They’ll probably just keep praying that I change my way of thinking. LOL

St James 5:16 says: "Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful."
Now the question is, who is more righteous, a sinful human, or a righteous saint?..

so Catholic never fear, if they’re prayers to saints are answered they’ll begin to think the way to the Father is through a saint and not Jesus, if they feel their prayers to Jesus are not answered?

 

[SeekerOfTruth7]

so Catholic never fear, if they’re prayers to saints are answered they’ll begin to think the way to the Father is through a saint and not Jesus, if they feel their prayers to Jesus are not answered?

No, no Catholic fears that at all. Who is Jesus? The God-Man. So, therefore, when God answers our prayers, it is Jesus answering our prayers. The Saints only ever point to Jesus and lead us closer to our Lord. If it was claimed that the way to the Father is through the Saints, that is blasphemy. The way to the Father is only ever Jesus.
But, I can use that question against you as well. If you ask a friend to pray for you, and your prayer is answered, then are you going to think that the way to the Father is through your friend who prayed for you?
A Saint is just a fellow Christian, who lived a holy life and is now in the Beatific Vision with Jesus. But they are our fellow believers who we ask to pray for us through Jesus.

 

[annad347]

But, I can use that question against you as well. If you ask a friend to pray for you, and your prayer is answered, then are you going to think that the way to the Father is through your friend who prayed for you?

I might, which might be the reason I never ask anyone to pray for me… I’m a impressionable, a little gullible and some what naive type of person. I ask A LOT of questions.

If I believer the only way I can be heard is by asking a third person, I might continue to go to that third person, which will slowly start me to believe that will be the only way I can be heard.

So if I had a friends who prays for me, those prayers are always answered because of my friend… then yes, in my mind the way to the father would be through my friend.

I’m not the only one who thinks like that.

 

[SeekerOfTruth7]

That is a dangerous jump, and one I would recommend working on through prayer and fasting.
But as I said before, praying to the Saints is not a required devotion. So, you may do as you please.
But one must never call those who do pray to Saints heretical or idolaters. Which I would hope you would agree with

 

[1ke]

but when a tradition is questionable

You misunderstand Tradition. Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are BOTH equally Divine Revelation.

And, intercessory prayer of Saints is not questionable.

should we not turn to the bible to seek the truth of what God desires from us?

No. We turn to the authority of the Church, the authentic interpreter of BOTH Scripture and Tradition.

but where exactly, specifically does the bible say we should pray to saints to pray for us

A) it need not say it anywhere in the Bible to be true and part of Divine Revelation.

B) however we do see it demonstrated in Rev 8:3-4 as the Saints bring intercessory petitions before the throne of God.

 

[1ke]

but who’s the final answer to what is the truth.

The Church.

 

[Dan_Defender]

You don’t have to pray for intercession but you will miss out on heavenly help. The saints are our friends and helpers.

 

[childinthefaith]

After having browsed a few other replies, I’d like to first of all say “NO” in response to the interpretation of your question I believe you may have meant, and that therefore indicates misunderstanding.

We do not pray TO the Saints in heaven. We ask them for their prayers for us, just as I might ask you to pray for my sick mother, except you’re not a canonized saint of the Church whom is in Heaven.
Initially, during RCIA, I misunderstood this topic and thought it was asking the saints to do anything for us, which they can not because they are simply souls who are with God and have no power. They can, however, certainly pray for us and if I’m not mistaken, miracles attributed to a soul in heaven’s intercession such as this is a requirement for canonization in the first place.

Also, I did not at the time know about the Church Militant (us on earth), Church Suffering (souls in Purgatory), or the Church Triumphant (souls in heaven). We are one body and the bride of Christ. It took a second, but asking for saints’ intercession made a lot of sense very quickly.

I hope anything I’ve said is of help. May God Bless you

 

[chagel_333]

The word conjuration i looked up. The defintion is: “the act of calling on or invoking a sacred name”.
Isnt this what catholics do towards Mary, saints, angels? Eg. St. Michael Prayer.
Thanks for your response.

 

[po18guy]

What’s with this ‘bible this’ and ‘bible that’?

1. Where is “bible” in the bible?
2. Where did the ‘Sacred Table of Contents’ come from?
3. Who was it that culled hundreds of documents, all purporting to be scripture?
4. The bible tells of the Saints carrying our prayers to the throne of God. This has been done since the Church was founded.

I do not get what you mean “What’s the truth”?

Unless you are bible alone, and thus do not have the entire Gospel.

 

[annad347]

That is a dangerous jump, and one I would recommend working on through prayer and fasting.

did say I did, I said I might.

But as I said before, praying to the Saints is not a required devotion. So, you may do as you please.
But one must never call those who do pray to Saints heretical or idolaters. Which I would hope you would agree with

I would never call anyone anything, who would I be to accuse anyone of being anything other then a child of God… and if I did I’m sorry, I didn’t meant too… did I do that?

Sacred Tradition

were they inspired by the Holy Spirit, like the bible… didn’t know that. hmmm, interesting.

We are going to go over how The Bible became in my class tomorrow… I can’t wait.

however we do see it demonstrated in Rev 8:3-4 as the Saints bring intercessory petitions before the throne of God.

prayers we say to them or prayers we say to God… if its one or the other does that mean the saints get to choose which prayers are given to God?

 

[ziapueblo]

but when a tradition is questionable should we not turn to the bible to seek the truth of what God desires from us?

The opposite side of the coin would be, using the Bible, and the Bible alone, where does the Bible say the Bible alone?

ZP

 

[annad347]

I do not get what you mean “What’s the truth”?

That is an excellent question… what is the truth?

Unless you are bible alone, and thus do not have the entire Gospel.

Catholic state that all traditions and CCC information are biblical so the Catholic believe in the bible as well… so why would bible alone be bad?

and no I’ve only read 1 of the 7 books… 2 Maccabees which had one of the worse scripture I’ve ever read… that poor mother.

are we going off topic… does one of the 7 books in the Catholic bible that’s not in the King James version speak about praying to saints?

 

[annad347]

The opposite side of the coin would be, using the Bible, and the Bible alone, where does the Bible say the Bible alone?

It doesn’t but I don’t believe in bible alone, I accept a lot of traditions that are not mentioned in the bible… but when someone questions a specific traditions, it it contradicts The Word… Jesus… shouldn’t we turn to the what is stated in the bible for the answers of what is true, what Jesus says is true? That’s was my original question from the OP’s question.

 

[ziapueblo]

So, asking those in Heaven for their intercession, correct?

ZP

 

[po18guy]

That is an excellent question… what is the truth?
Catholic state that all traditions and CCC information are biblical so the Catholic believe in the bible as well… so why would bible alone be bad?

Backwards! The bible came last! Jesus taught > the Apostles taught > some of the Apostles wrote, but not at Jesus’ command. Our Lord wrote nothing, except in the sand. He left no writing, did not command the writing of anything. He used OT scriptures against those who doubted Him - primarily the devil in the wilderness. Scripture backs up the Church and each and every reference to authority in the bible points you to the Church.

It appears that you have learned a man-made, European theology, made up out of desperate need of self-justification by an extremely intelligent, extremely charismatic, and extremely psychologically troubled man.

and no I’ve only read 1 of the 7 books… 2 Maccabees which had one of the worse scripture I’ve ever read… that poor mother.
are we going off topic… does one of the 7 books in the Catholic bible that’s not in the King James version speak about praying to saints?

Paul! We are all one Body in Christ. All are living, not dead; conscious and not sleeping, as some assert. Nothing can separate the Body of Christ from God’s love: life, death, powers, principalities etc. Since the Body of Christ is spiritually unfied, both in heaven and on earth, those who rayed for us here can pray for us now that they are in God’s presence.

Read Revelation 5. The “living” elders in heaven carried the prayers of the saints to the throne. That’s intercession. Read the Book of Tobit. The Archangel Raphael presents our prayers to the throne of God.That too is intercession. There are other examples, but it is the teaching and practice of the early Church that determined what was eventually written and collected into what we call the bible.

Sadly, Christian truth has been turned on its head in the last 500 years. It is a free-for-all with rampant disobedience, division, distraction and everything else that begins with “D” - like the devil, who incites all division.

 

[1ke]

were they inspired by the Holy Spirit, like the bible… didn’t know that. hmmm, interesting.

Yes.

We are going to go over how The Bible became in my class tomorrow… I can’t wait.

What class are you referring to?

does that mean the saints get to choose which prayers are given to God?

No.

 

[chagel_333]

Ahh good thought on not calling a saint a medium.

 

[Salvationstory]

I was never really comfortable with asking the saints for intercession. I think you have a point here. I have read through the arguments for praying with the departed saints…the “cloud of witnesses” in Hebrews 12:1, the prayers that are offered up in Revelation 5. The second is more convincing; the departed Believers do have some sort of role to play, if this passage is to be taken completely literally. We should take comfort in knowing there are many Believers who have achieved eternal life. But I don’t see that it is necessarily right to ask anything of them rather than simply asking God. I should note that I am not sure I am a Catholic anymore.