S
Sursumcorda1
Guest
Consider John 21:25 which states
“There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.”
- Status
“There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.”
po18guy
Well-known member
Welcome! Well, crisis of faith or not, if you ask me to pray for you, you’re OK with that, right? That’s intercession.
How much more effective is the prayer of a perfected soul who is in God’s presence! That is perfect intercession.
Go for the best. Besides, would 1.2 billion living Catholics and 300 million Orthodox do something which was countermanded? No. Would they bother to do something that brought no results? No.
If you doubt, my advice is to get before Christ in the Blessed Sacrament at your earliest opportunity. Tell Him of your doubts - then be as patient with Him as He has been with you. When you become aware that He is there, you will be changed.
How much more effective is the prayer of a perfected soul who is in God’s presence! That is perfect intercession.
Go for the best. Besides, would 1.2 billion living Catholics and 300 million Orthodox do something which was countermanded? No. Would they bother to do something that brought no results? No.
If you doubt, my advice is to get before Christ in the Blessed Sacrament at your earliest opportunity. Tell Him of your doubts - then be as patient with Him as He has been with you. When you become aware that He is there, you will be changed.
Last edited:
A
annad347
Guest
@po18guy, I agree with everything you are saying. Please don’t assume what I know… ask me.
Traditions were written by the apostles… Mark, Luke, John, Paul… yadda, yadda, yadda…which were after yadda yadda amount of time with the inspiration of The Holy Spirit, those who were considered very smart men put together the bible.
There is nothing refuting the fact that saints pray for us, that we pray for each other… that saints bring our prayers to God. I never denied that.
When I say the Word, I meant the word being the Living Word, Jesus Christ. He who never came to change the law.
I was just questioning praying to saints or anyone else who we believe is closer to God then us. The OP asked the same question… you answered me.
the prayers of a righteous person is heard more then an unrighteous man.
When I say traditions came from the bible, I mean they came from those, who wrote the words we have now. Put into what we call bible.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I never read, says all they state is biblical… meaning it comes from the scripture we have now known as bible… so if that’s true then why would it be wrong to refer to the bible as the true word of God?
If there are traditions or Catechisms that come from word of mouth I wouldn’t know about any of that…but that topic would be for another thread… but if that is what’s used to helps explain praying to saints, then its all good.
@1ke said the final word for the truth is in the Church… now I’d ask which Church but that would also be a whole other thread… if its the Catholic church then weather or not I agree with that is on me.
Traditions were written by the apostles… Mark, Luke, John, Paul… yadda, yadda, yadda…which were after yadda yadda amount of time with the inspiration of The Holy Spirit, those who were considered very smart men put together the bible.
There is nothing refuting the fact that saints pray for us, that we pray for each other… that saints bring our prayers to God. I never denied that.
When I say the Word, I meant the word being the Living Word, Jesus Christ. He who never came to change the law.
I was just questioning praying to saints or anyone else who we believe is closer to God then us. The OP asked the same question… you answered me.
the prayers of a righteous person is heard more then an unrighteous man.
When I say traditions came from the bible, I mean they came from those, who wrote the words we have now. Put into what we call bible.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I never read, says all they state is biblical… meaning it comes from the scripture we have now known as bible… so if that’s true then why would it be wrong to refer to the bible as the true word of God?
If there are traditions or Catechisms that come from word of mouth I wouldn’t know about any of that…but that topic would be for another thread… but if that is what’s used to helps explain praying to saints, then its all good.
@1ke said the final word for the truth is in the Church… now I’d ask which Church but that would also be a whole other thread… if its the Catholic church then weather or not I agree with that is on me.
C
Cathoholic
Guest
Saints means “Holy ones”.
Do you think you can have GOOD Angel’s pray for you?
If you do, you are in good company.
In Genesis we see Jacob (Israel) “praying” to an angel, eventually asking for a blessing (“bless me”).
God bless.
Cathoholic
.
Do you think you can have GOOD Angel’s pray for you?
If you do, you are in good company.
In Genesis we see Jacob (Israel) “praying” to an angel, eventually asking for a blessing (“bless me”).
God bless.
Cathoholic
.
Last edited:
R
redal
Guest
Who are “the dead”, and what is “death”?
If we take the verse literally (which we do not do, as Catholics, but rather we read the “literal sense” of scripture, which is quite different - see CCC 100-120ish).
Praying to the dead, literally, based on this scripture, without considering ever lasting life as a result of the salvation offered by the New Covenant, would make us one “who inquires of the dead”.
But when the form and function of the New Covenant is considered, and understanding the Catholic belief in “The Communion of Saints”, praying to members of the Church Triumphant is not praying to the dead, but praying to the very much “living” that they lift our prayers to the Lord (see Rev 5:8).
Rejoice in the Lord always!
If we take the verse literally (which we do not do, as Catholics, but rather we read the “literal sense” of scripture, which is quite different - see CCC 100-120ish).
Praying to the dead, literally, based on this scripture, without considering ever lasting life as a result of the salvation offered by the New Covenant, would make us one “who inquires of the dead”.
But when the form and function of the New Covenant is considered, and understanding the Catholic belief in “The Communion of Saints”, praying to members of the Church Triumphant is not praying to the dead, but praying to the very much “living” that they lift our prayers to the Lord (see Rev 5:8).
Rejoice in the Lord always!
G
gama232
Guest
Catholics know that the saints are alive in heaven. How did Pope John Paul II become a saint? Someone said a prayer, an intercessory prayer, to him.
C
childinthefaith
Guest
That is my understanding of us “praying to” the saints. We are not asking them to “do” anything other than intercede, as they are incapable in their state to do more. Only God can actually answer prayers. He may do so as a result of the intercession of someone in Heaven though, as I believe is one of the miracles required for canonization.
That said, i am no expert and am only repeating what I learned in RCIA about 5.5 years ago…
That said, i am no expert and am only repeating what I learned in RCIA about 5.5 years ago…
A
anon91549587
Guest
I often ponder on this topic too . In the eastern orthodox church , i have read 6-9 cases so far in which the saint they prayed to arrived on scene to help .
Will supply links if interested.
Will supply links if interested.
- Status