praying to virgin mary and the saints

[Bill_Pick]

Bob4BVM;5503126:

Firstly Bob I am not amongst the hundreds or the millions who hate the Catholic Church…countless conversions to Christ? I praise God for all true conversions to Christ and people can convert to our Lord in the Roman Church as well as the Protestant churches…however…of course I have to qualify and mean no ill will to you or any Catholic when I qualify…so much of Lucifer the father of lies and so much impersonation in the Church of Rome that he gets very close access to these new converts…I am being as polite as poss brother…

The human beings in heaven are probably more alive that what we are…Enoch, Elijah, Moses…all those who arose with Jesus at his ressurection…these people are more alive than we are certainly…BUT most people are simply DEAD…and the occult can teach us here…and the father of the occult is the devil the arch deciever…beware Bob you are decieved…and I say that as a brother in Christ and a friend on this forum…I love you and warn you…maybe one day you will learn the Truth…

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.

When the soul die is that it for a Christian,I was thinking the soul lived for ever and we was with the body of Christ for ever
Will heaven be just like here as it is on earth,or do we believe what the Bible said John 21:25

 

[Brother2]

Brother2;5687549:

When the soul die is that it for a Christian,I was thinking the soul lived for ever and we was with the body of Christ for ever
Will heaven be just like here as it is on earth,or do we believe what the Bible said John 21:25

We believe what the Bible says Bob…it says,‘The soul that sinneth it shall die’…only God has immortality…Bible says that too Bob…our eternal life is conditional Bob…we have the wonderful hope…the promise…but immortality is given at the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus…we sleep until He returns…Jesus says,‘he sleepeth’…then, ‘he is dead’…He keeps us in His care, in His Arms…we are unconcious but He knows who we are and where we are and keeps the records of what we were, our mannerisms, our way of speaking etc. and returns it at the great ressurection at His coming…

Praise God for the wonderful Plan of our Lord and the working out of it…Praise His Holy Name…

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.

 

[Tomb54]

Bill Pick;5687648:

We believe what the Bible says Bob…it says,‘The soul that sinneth it shall die’…only God has immortality…Bible says that too Bob…our eternal life is conditional Bob…we have the wonderful hope…the promise…but immortality is given at the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus…we sleep until He returns…Jesus says,‘he sleepeth’…then, ‘he is dead’…He keeps us in His care, in His Arms…we are unconcious but He knows who we are and where we are and keeps the records of what we were, our mannerisms, our way of speaking etc. and returns it at the great ressurection at His coming…

Praise God for the wonderful Plan of our Lord and the working out of it…Praise His Holy Name…

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.

Article from Dr Joe Mizzi a Protestant who seems to disagree with you and also has verses for his side. Hmm again 2 different interpretations but both are right based on their interpretation of the Bible. Wonder which is right and who will decide since there is no one on earth to help interpret who is right what a dilemma the Holy Spirit has left us since there is no one on earth helping to lead the Lord’s people. Would have thought His plan was more clear then to have so many interpretations.

What Happens after Death?

Question: I want to know what happens when we die. Where does the spirit go?

Answer: We are made up of a physical body and a spiritual soul. At death, there is separation of body and spirit: “The body without the spirit is dead” (James 2:26). The body returns to the ground and decays, while the spirit returns to God. “Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7).

Every believer will be with Christ on the same day of his death. Jesus promised the repentant thief on the cross, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43).

The apostle Paul expected to be with Christ at death; he wrote: “For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better” (Philippians 1:21-23). The same is true for every believer: “We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:8).

Our confidence is not based on our moral perfection - we admit and confess our sins daily; yet, we fully trust in the Lord Jesus, “in Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7). Therefore for us “to be absent from the body” is “to be present with the Lord.”

Furthermore, we look forward to the resurrection of the body, similar to the resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 14). Our redemption is not complete until we are given a glorified and immortal body. “We ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body” (Romans 8:23).

I always wonder who decides these differences.
God Bless

 

[MarchOfThePigs]

Catholics pray the rosary and recite prayers to Virgin Mary. Also, Catholics pray to the saints. Another thing, catholics also use statues of the saints, Virgin Mary, and of Jesus. But dosent’ this contradict what the bible says? Instead of praying to Mary and the saints for help, why not just pray to God? And why have false idols?

The Catholic will tell you this little story as to circumvent the fact that you are correct and that you should go directly to the source.

Here is the Catholic gem every priest loves to tell to the old people and woman in their 40s facing a midlife crisis (that’s who go to church old people and homemake Catholic moms):

Let’s say your sick in the hospital, you ask someone to pray FOR you, now your not saying this person is God and that he or she will heal you, your asking for assistance that this person will aid you by presenting your prayers to God in addition to your own prayers. That is what (here he gives one of the million titles for Mary) Our Lady of __________ (fill in something warm and fuzzy) and the saints do, they pray with us, pray for us and present our prayers to God, after all they are in heaven with him (here he gives a stupid guff guff laugh) as you think, My God he is absolutely right, Mary and the Saints are my friends, even though they’ve never invited me over for a cup of coffee or done anything for me at all. Gee wiz isn’t it great to be Catholic, we have all these saints (most are legends that never existed) and the Blessed Mother on our side! Take that Protestants!

Look you want a bank loan, you go to the person who can get you the bank loan, not to the teller who is “close to the bank loan officer”. Forget all this rosaries, saints, and virgin mary stuff, you believe in a God that cares if you get a promotion from your cubicle job, then pray to Him and tell him your sob story and see if he does anything about it. You go to the source, you don’t need filters.

 

[peary]

Catholics pray the rosary and recite prayers to Virgin Mary. Also, Catholics pray to the saints. Another thing, catholics also use statues of the saints, Virgin Mary, and of Jesus. But dosent’ this contradict what the bible says? Instead of praying to Mary and the saints for help, why not just pray to God? And why have false idols?

So, what’s your point?

 

[Tomb54]

(Edited)

Yes you do not have to ever go to Mary or the Saints because all they can do is pray for you like your friends pray for you (or do your friends not pray for you? or do you not ask them too and if you do why since you can go right to Jesus and ask Him?). Also why at the Cana feast did they not go directly to Jesus and asked Mary first? Did Jesus do what Mary asked? Did it do no good for them to ask Mary even though Jesus was right there? Praying to Jesus is all you need but it does no harm to ask for prays from others and talking to Mary and the Saints is all that happens then and a little extra prays to jesus for you can’t hurt.
Have you ever had someone vouch for you, if that bank teller is “close to the loan officer” and vouches for you it will increase you chance for a loan. In fact I know this is true because I have done it and got the loan faster than I thought possible so your little bank scenario does not work to make your point.
God Bless

 

[Tomb54]

Catholics pray the rosary and recite prayers to Virgin Mary. Also, Catholics pray to the saints. Another thing, catholics also use statues of the saints, Virgin Mary, and of Jesus. But dosent’ this contradict what the bible says? Instead of praying to Mary and the saints for help, why not just pray to God? And why have false idols?

Do you have pictures of your family on your walls in your house or in your wallet? Are these pictures idols to you or something to remember them by and to show other people? Statues are nothing different just a little bigger than pictures.
As for your comment on praying I thing we differ on interpretation here, I think a fair amount of Protestants think of praying as a form of worship since they have no sacrifice to offer God. Praying to Mary ans the saints is more talking to them as yo would a family member. I know some protestant think all the saints are dead but Jesus said God is the God of the living and not the dead and this was before he died Himself to redeem them. I know heaven was closed then but evidently they were alive somewhere (if only in spirit) if Jesus said they were. He would know better than I would. Might be wrong here and correct me if I got this wrong but some comment make it sound that way.

 

[rinnie]

Isn’t it! I always ask someone when they make a comment like that what was the first Church. Of course they never answer. Then I think what is Jesus thinking, and I think of Saul.

Saul Saul why are you persecuting me? We all know Saul was persecuting the CC.

 

[rinnie]

Catholics pray the rosary and recite prayers to Virgin Mary. Also, Catholics pray to the saints. Another thing, catholics also use statues of the saints, Virgin Mary, and of Jesus. But dosent’ this contradict what the bible says? Instead of praying to Mary and the saints for help, why not just pray to God? And why have false idols?

And tell me Derek, How could this contradict what the bible says? You just said yourself that Catholics have statues of Mary, the saints, and Jesus. Now which of these people do you consider false.

Is a Statue of Jesus a false idol? You are saying you don’t agree that Jesus is the Son of God? Or are you saying that Jesus wasn’t a man in the image portrayed by the Statue or what? What do you think he looked like Derek. Again Derek as you saying Jesus did not reveal himself and the bible lied or what?

And the Blessed MOther wasn’t she a woman? Did she not also reveal herself in a human forrn? So tell me Derek is the Statue in her image or not? What was she supposed to be made in an image of a horse or what. Did the bible not say a woman in the image of Eve who was also a woman?

Why not Pray in Christ’s name? Who name do we pray in Derek. Are you saying when we ask the Saints to pray for us we replaced God or what? Because Jesus prayed for Peter. Why did he do this? Was he wrong? I guess Peter should have just prayed for himself or what? In Job God told Jobs friends to ask Job to pray for them. Why is this Derek? Why did God say he would listen to Job and not them? Can’t wait to hear from you Derek!

 

[Bill_Pick]

And tell me Derek, How could this contradict what the bible says? You just said yourself that Catholics have statues of Mary, the saints, and Jesus. Now which of these people do you consider false.

Is a Statue of Jesus a false idol? You are saying you don’t agree that Jesus is the Son of God? Or are you saying that Jesus wasn’t a man in the image portrayed by the Statue or what? What do you think he looked like Derek. Again Derek as you saying Jesus did not reveal himself and the bible lied or what?

And the Blessed MOther wasn’t she a woman? Did she not also reveal herself in a human forrn? So tell me Derek is the Statue in her image or not? What was she supposed to be made in an image of a horse or what. Did the bible not say a woman in the image of Eve who was also a woman?

Why not Pray in Christ’s name? Who name do we pray in Derek. Are you saying when we ask the Saints to pray for us we replaced God or what? Because Jesus prayed for Peter. Why did he do this? Was he wrong? I guess Peter should have just prayed for himself or what? In Job God told Jobs friends to ask Job to pray for them. Why is this Derek? Why did God say he would listen to Job and not them? Can’t wait to hear from you Derek!

The problem that Protestants have is they only have the Bible and thats all the " idols" they have,and do not know it is a Cathloic book

 

[Bob4BVM]

Bill Pick;5687648:

We believe what the Bible says Bob…it says,‘The soul that sinneth it shall die’…only God has immortality…Bible says that too Bob…our eternal life is conditional Bob…we have the wonderful hope…the promise…but immortality is given at the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus…we sleep until He returns…Jesus says,‘he sleepeth’…then, ‘he is dead’…He keeps us in His care, in His Arms…we are unconcious but He knows who we are and where we are and keeps the records of what we were, our mannerisms, our way of speaking etc. and returns it at the great ressurection at His coming…

Praise God for the wonderful Plan of our Lord and the working out of it…Praise His Holy Name…

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.

My Friend, you should ask those who teach you such: “By what authority do you teach these things ?”
The RCC teaches doctrine by the Authority given to the Apostles by Jesus Christ, and handed down to the present day bishops and priests in an UNBROKEN CHAIN OF SUCCESSION, as Jesus prescribed.

You say you believe what the Bible says. I suggest you get a better understanding of the whole picture, not just a verse here or there. Jesus talked MANY times about the eternal soul of men, how they should guard it from deceivers. He also talked specifically about what happens when we die, He had no intention of keeping us guessing ! For instance:
John 14:
1 "Do not let your hearts be troubled. You have faith in God; have faith also in me.

2 In my Father’s house there are many dwelling places. If there were not, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you?

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back again and take you to myself, so that where I am you also may be.

4 Where (I) am going you know the way."

5 Thomas said to him, “Master, we do not know where you are going; how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

As a Catholic, I am not free to pick and choose what I want to believe. I am compelled to read it ALL, and believe it ALL , along with the Sacred Tradition handed down by the Church since her founding by Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.

All this talk about no soul sounds strangely familiar to me—you are Seventh Day Adventist, is that an offshoot of the Jehovah’s Witnesses ? They come to my door telling me the same thing, that there is NO SOUL. How sad it is, they are so hung up on hanging on to this world because their (unauthorized) leaders have told them there is no soul.

If you want the truth, I invite you to check out the RCC, the REAL ’ First (and Only ! ) Church of Christ '. There you will find that the doctrine meshes perfectly with ALL of Scripture, not just bits and pieces here and there according to the whim of some self-proclaimed preacher.

---

“If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don’t like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.” St. Augustine

---

+Peace,
Bob

 

[Bob4BVM]

And tell me Derek, How could this contradict what the bible says? You just said yourself that Catholics have statues of Mary, the saints, and Jesus. Now which of these people do you consider false.

Is a Statue of Jesus a false idol? You are saying you don’t agree that Jesus is the Son of God? Or are you saying that Jesus wasn’t a man in the image portrayed by the Statue or what? What do you think he looked like Derek. Again Derek as you saying Jesus did not reveal himself and the bible lied or what?

And the Blessed MOther wasn’t she a woman? Did she not also reveal herself in a human forrn? So tell me Derek is the Statue in her image or not? What was she supposed to be made in an image of a horse or what. Did the bible not say a woman in the image of Eve who was also a woman?

Why not Pray in Christ’s name? Who name do we pray in Derek. Are you saying when we ask the Saints to pray for us we replaced God or what? Because Jesus prayed for Peter. Why did he do this? Was he wrong? I guess Peter should have just prayed for himself or what? In Job God told Jobs friends to ask Job to pray for them. Why is this Derek? Why did God say he would listen to Job and not them? Can’t wait to hear from you Derek!

Nice try Rinnie,
I pray that he will read and honestly consider what you said here.
It is so difficult to get anything to sink into a stone, but thx for your good effort !

Once you know the Truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey.

I just ache for these poor misinformed souls !

+Peace,
Bob

 

[Bob4BVM]

Not sure how you got all that from my earlier post, as what I said was:

Hello Brother2:
Saw your old post come up here, felt compelled to comment on it:
Michael, do really believe that those in Heaven are any less alive than we are here ???
And what limits would you like to put on what they may or may not be able to do, if it is by God’s grace and desire ?

You speak of that which you do not know, Michael.
If the historic apparitions of Mary are the work of satan, they are his biggest screw-up ever ! The countless true conversions to Christ resulting from these are their own witness. They are the fruits of the Grace which her Son has allowed her to bring to us.

+Peace,
Bob

now, To quote you Brother2:
"…so much of Lucifer the father of lies and so much impersonation in the Church of Rome that he gets very close access to these new converts…I am being as polite as poss brother…
The human beings in heaven are probably more alive that what we are…Enoch, Elijah, Moses…all those who arose with Jesus at his ressurection…these people are more alive than we are certainly…BUT most people are simply DEAD…and the occult can teach us here…and the father of the occult is the devil the arch deciever…beware Bob you are decieved…and I say that as a brother in Christ and a friend on this forum…I love you and warn you…maybe one day you will learn the Truth…
… "

Save your breath if you are trying to convince those who have received God’s grace in their life directly from Jesus or the Blessed Virgin Mary. When it happens, it doesn’t leave much room for doubt in your life.

+Peace,
Bob

 

[Bob4BVM]

The problem that Protestants have is they only have the Bible and thats all the " idols" they have,and do not know it is a Cathloic book

I know Bill, I know, having come from there myself.
I will never forget the joy and wonder once I finally realized what the Catholic Mass is all about. And the feelings of being lied to and cheated out of the Truth by so many anti-Catholic protestant preachers.
Pray for them.
Bob

 

[Bob4BVM]

Yeah," so much lucifer in it "…
So by that are they saying that Jesus failed miserably in His promise to protect the Church, or that He just lied ?

Bob

 

[rinnie]

Nice try Rinnie,
I pray that he will read and honestly consider what you said here.
It is so difficult to get anything to sink into a stone, but thx for your good effort !

Once you know the Truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey.

I just ache for these poor misinformed souls !

+Peace,
Bob

Thanks Bob. Hoping to incorporate some COMMOM SENSE here. Hopefully that will do it. I am hoping he does not think we replaced The Blessed Mother with a Statue. OR replaced Jesus with at statue. Just like I am sure you have not replaced your Children when you have pictures of them around.

Here is the thing that gets me. When you see a picture or Statue and ask them who is this statue of or picture of they say Jesus! Bingo! Now how is that a false God. Unless of course you say that Jesus is a false God.

Like I show you a picture of my Child and say who is this, And you say Jessie. Are you saying my child is a picture of course not. Same thing. But they don’t get it! Hopefully they will now. Lets hope!

 

[Bob4BVM]

Brother2;5687832:

Article from Dr Joe Mizzi a Protestant who seems to disagree with you and also has verses for his side. Hmm again 2 different interpretations but both are right based on their interpretation of the Bible. Wonder which is right and who will decide since there is no one on earth to help interpret who is right what a dilemma the Holy Spirit has left us since there is no one on earth helping to lead the Lord’s people. Would have thought His plan was more clear then to have so many interpretations.

What Happens after Death?

Question: I want to know what happens when we die. Where does the spirit go?

Answer: We are made up of a physical body and a spiritual soul. At death, there is separation of body and spirit: “The body without the spirit is dead” (James 2:26). The body returns to the ground and decays, while the spirit returns to God. “Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7).

Every believer will be with Christ on the same day of his death. Jesus promised the repentant thief on the cross, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43).

The apostle Paul expected to be with Christ at death; he wrote: “For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better” (Philippians 1:21-23). The same is true for every believer: “We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:8).

Our confidence is not based on our moral perfection - we admit and confess our sins daily; yet, we fully trust in the Lord Jesus, “in Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7). Therefore for us “to be absent from the body” is “to be present with the Lord.”

Furthermore, we look forward to the resurrection of the body, similar to the resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 14). Our redemption is not complete until we are given a glorified and immortal body. “We ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body” (Romans 8:23).

I always wonder who decides these differences.
God Bless

Good post Tomb !
I hope some of it sinks in.
Some of our Protestant brothers will have to forever wonder who decides these differences.
Thats the beauty of the Catholic faith, we can know.
One interpretation , not 33,000 !
+Peace,
Bob

---

“The Catholic Church is the only thing which saves a man from the degrading slavery of being a child of his age.”
G.K. Chesterton

---

 

[Bob4BVM]

Thanks Bob. Hoping to incorporate some COMMOM SENSE here. Hopefully that will do it. I am hoping he does not think we replaced The Blessed Mother with a Statue. OR replaced Jesus with at statue. Just like I am sure you have not replaced your Children when you have pictures of them around.

Here is the thing that gets me. When you see a picture or Statue and ask them who is this statue of or picture of they say Jesus! Bingo! Now how is that a false God. Unless of course you say that Jesus is a false God.

Like I show you a picture of my Child and say who is this, And you say Jessie. Are you saying my child is a picture of course not. Same thing. But they don’t get it! Hopefully they will now. Lets hope!

RIght on RInnie !
Thanks for that reply. You brightened up my day, I had to laugh out loud when I saw your comment about replacing Jesus & Mary with statues ! HA, that is hilarious ! I wonder if that is what they think ! ?
Cheers,
Bob

 

[Bill_Pick]

Thanks Bob. Hoping to incorporate some COMMOM SENSE here. Hopefully that will do it. I am hoping he does not think we replaced The Blessed Mother with a Statue. OR replaced Jesus with at statue. Just like I am sure you have not replaced your Children when you have pictures of them around.

Here is the thing that gets me. When you see a picture or Statue and ask them who is this statue of or picture of they say Jesus! Bingo! Now how is that a false God. Unless of course you say that Jesus is a false God.

Like I show you a picture of my Child and say who is this, And you say Jessie. Are you saying my child is a picture of course not. Same thing. But they don’t get it! Hopefully they will now. Lets hope!

Here is one I just can not understand,I hear people say to me I.am a Bible breadthed Christian, so how do they interpretation this verse,Jesus breadthed on them and they still do not believe " When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained. ==beats me

 

[Tomb54]

Tomb54;5688338:

Good post Tomb !
I hope some of it sinks in.
Some of our Protestant brothers will have to forever wonder who decides these differences.
Thats the beauty of the Catholic faith, we can know.
One interpretation , not 33,000 !
+Peace,
Bob

---

“The Catholic Church is the only thing which saves a man from the degrading slavery of being a child of his age.”
G.K. Chesterton

---

Actually the Bible tells them but they refuse to acknowledge those verses or at least will not acknowledge the early church as still being in existence with the same setup the Apostle had.