praying to virgin mary and the saints

[elvisman]

Don’t be mad brother lol. You call me an angry anti catholic which i am not, then you call me ignorant. Whats up with that brother:shrug:. All you have to do is respond to the scriptures that i gave in my last replay. I don’t need a dictionary just a response to the scriptures i provided. God Bless you my friend.

Hmmmmm . . . where to begin?
I called you ignorant (not an insult - just an observation) because you don’t seem to know what the word, “pray” means. DO you?

As for the Scriptures you provided to "prove your point" - they are irrelevant. Catholics don’t attempt to conjure up the dead or glean information from them. THAT is what is spoken against in the OT.

Your attempt to prove your point with the NT passages you provided was equally ludicrous. Your reference to the Rich Man in Luke 16:23-31 being a “saint” was a lesson in twisting the scriptures to your own destruction (2 Peter 3:16).

So - with all that said, please enlighten all of us:
**What does “Pray” mean? **

PS - (here’s a clue: read my last post)

 

[Robert_in_SD]

The only prayer in the Bible addressed to a saint was from hell and God did not answer it Luke 16:23-31

This passage proves that those who are “dead” can hear our petitions. Abraham heard the petition of the rich man from the flames - across a great chasm. Hmm? Maybe the saints in heaven can hear our petitions. And his prayer was answered, just not in the way he desired.

freedomwriter:

Rev 4:11

That passage reads: [11] “Worthy art thou, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for thou didst create all things, and by thy will they existed and were created.”

Nothing in that post addresses the topic at hand.

freedomwriter:

Jesus taught us to pray to " our Father who art in heaven"

OK. Nobody disputes this. But do you really think the Our Father is the only prayer that Jesus wants us to say?

freedomwriter:

The God of Isaiah declared “Turn to me and be safe, all you ends of the earth for I am God; there is no other!” Isa 45:22

A prayer to a saint in heaven is a petition to the saint to turn to God with you, or on your behalf. It is not a turning to anything except the power of God. There is nothing in prayer to the saints that is in conflict with Isa 45:22.

[O]
nly God should be worshiped Ex 20:3

Ex 20:3 states, “You shall have no other gods before me.” As Catholics we agree. Saints are not Gods. They are the friends of God that are now in His presence adoring Him. We petition them for prayers on our behalf because we, like them, are all part of the body of Christ. We do not “end run” Christ to get to a saint.

freedomwriter:

To pray to the dead is a denial of the work of the Holy Spirit. Rom 8:6

Wow. You really need to re-read this chapter keeping in mind what Catholics have told you about being alive in Christ and connected in the mystical body of Christ… Read:

[6] To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
[7] For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, indeed it cannot;
[8] and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9] But you are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Any one who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
[10] But if Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of sin, your spirits are alive because of righteousness.
[11] If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you.
[12] So then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh –
[13] for if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live.
[14] For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
[15] For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, “Abba! Father!”
[16] it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
[17] and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
[18] I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
[19] For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God;
[20] for the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of him who subjected it in hope;
[21] because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God.

freedomwriter:

Eph 8:15

Read all of Ephesians, Chapter 2, in context and see what it shows about the body of Christ in which we all share in the gifts of Christ and sit with Him in the holy places…

[8] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God –
[9] not because of works, lest any man should boast.
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
[11] Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called the uncircumcision by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands –
[12] remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
[13] But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ.
[14] For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility,
[15] by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,
[16] and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility to an end.
[17] And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near;
[18] for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.
[19] So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
[20] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,
[21] in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord;
[22] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

Peace,
Robert

 

[freedomwriter]

This passage proves that those who are “dead” can hear our petitions. Abraham heard the petition of the rich man from the flames - across a great chasm. Hmm? Maybe the saints in heaven can hear our petitions. And his prayer was answered, just not in the way he desired.

That passage reads: [11] “Worthy art thou, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for thou didst create all things, and by thy will they existed and were created.”

Nothing in that post addresses the topic at hand.

OK. Nobody disputes this. But do you really think the Our Father is the only prayer that Jesus wants us to say?

A prayer to a saint in heaven is a petition to the saint to turn to God with you, or on your behalf. It is not a turning to anything except the power of God. There is nothing in prayer to the saints that is in conflict with Isa 45:22.

Ex 20:3 states, “You shall have no other gods before me.” As Catholics we agree. Saints are not Gods. They are the friends of God that are now in His presence adoring Him. We petition them for prayers on our behalf because we, like them, are all part of the body of Christ. We do not “end run” Christ to get to a saint.

Wow. You really need to re-read this chapter keeping in mind what Catholics have told you about being alive in Christ and connected in the mystical body of Christ… Read:

Read all of Ephesians, Chapter 2, in context and see what it shows about the body of Christ in which we all share in the gifts of Christ and sit with Him in the holy places…

Peace,
Robert

Can’t stop me from telling the truth, you can only hope to contain me. Read the scriptures slowly my brother you might learn something:thumbsup:

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Can’t stop me from telling the truth, you can only hope to contain me. Read the scriptures slowly my brother you might learn something:thumbsup:

Right back atcha’ (What? No effort to try to harmonize all of these passages with your tweezered position? Just a patronizing statement about you “telling the truth” with no effort at all to explain why you think it is the truth? Not a big surprise to me. )

It seems obvious to me that you are not interested in learning what Catholics really believe about this topic. You have your talking points and your scripture scraps and you’ll keep repeating them to whoever will listen while completely disregarding an attempt to harmonize all of scripture. Well, good luck with that.

I’m going to look for an engaging conversation somewhere else.

Peace,
Robert

 

[freedomwriter]

Right back atcha’ (What? No effort to try to harmonize all of these passages with your tweezered position? Just a patronizing statement about you “telling the truth” with no effort at all to explain why you think it is the truth? Not a big surprise to me. )

It seems obvious to me that you are not interested in learning what Catholics really believe about this topic. You have your talking points and your scripture scraps and you’ll keep repeating them to whoever will listen while completely disregarding an attempt to harmonize all of scripture. Well, good luck with that.

I’m going to look for an engaging conversation somewhere else.

Peace,
Robert

Praying for the dead, and to the saints

First, let’s consider praying for the dead. The Catholic Church teaches that Christians who are alive on earth can come to the assistance of the souls in Purgatory by (among others) intercessory prayers as well as alms giving [giving to the poor] and other pious works.

Evangelicals reject this on the basis that there is no Scriptural support whatsoever for this doctrine. [see Geisler, p. 348ff] There is not a single example, in the Bible of a person praying for a person who has died.

Second, let’s consider praying to Mary and the saints. The Catholic Catechism says:

“The witnesses who have preceded us into the kingdom, especially those whom the Church recognizes as saints, share in the living tradition of prayer by the example of their lives… They contemplate God, praise him and constantly care for those whom they have left on earth. Their intercession is their most exalted service to God’s plan. We can and should ask them [the saints] to intercede for us and for the whole world.” Pg. 645, #2683 (See also Pg. 249, #956)

And so the church encourages its followers to pray prayers like this popular pray to Mary…

“O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners; and for this end He has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, in order that thou mayest help us in our misery. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee: come to my aid, for I recommend myself to thee. In thy hands I place my eternal salvation, and to thee I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me. For, if thou protect me, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased. But one thing I fear: that in the hour of temptation I may through negligence fail to call on thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, therefore, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace ever to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help.”

Catholics are encouraged by the Roman Catholic Church to pray prayers like this, not to God, but to Mary!! I read this and I gasp! Can we talk favorably about a religion who would encourage its followers to pray to something, or someone else rather than God?

This is absolutely contradicted by the Bible. The Bible says…

Philippians 4:6

“…let your requests be made known to [who?] God”

Jesus taught us to pray to…

Matthew 6:9

“Our Father who art in heaven…”

The Apostle Paul writes…

1 Timothy 2:5

“For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus”

There are prayers in the Bible from Genesis all the way to the Book of Revelation, and NONE of them are addressed to a saint, an angel, or anyone other than God. In fact, numerous passages in the Old Testament condemn all attempts to communicate with the dead. Those verses include:

–Deuteronomy 18:10-12
–Leviticus 20:6, 27
–1 Samuel 28:5-18
–Isaiah 8:19-20

Is it a serious thing that the Catholic Church would mislead multitudes of people away from the living God and into prayer to the dead? Absolutely! Did you know that in the Old Testament, if a person violated these commands they were to be put to death? Am I suggesting that anybody do that now? God forbid! It does show you though how serious God takes the issue though.

God Bless Brother:thumbsup:

 

[freedomwriter]

Right back atcha’ (What? No effort to try to harmonize all of these passages with your tweezered position? Just a patronizing statement about you “telling the truth” with no effort at all to explain why you think it is the truth? Not a big surprise to me. )

It seems obvious to me that you are not interested in learning what Catholics really believe about this topic. You have your talking points and your scripture scraps and you’ll keep repeating them to whoever will listen while completely disregarding an attempt to harmonize all of scripture. Well, good luck with that.

I’m going to look for an engaging conversation somewhere else.

Peace,
Robert

How can you harmonize misinterpreting scriptures with those that show proof from the Word of God. your right i don’t want to learn anymore misinterpretations from the catholic faith. I went through it for a long time till the Lord led me to a church that teaches the Word of God with scriptures to back up their teachings. Please don’t leave mad Brother

 

[Derek_24ca]

How can you harmonize misinterpreting scriptures with those that show proof from the Word of God. your right i don’t want to learn anymore misinterpretations from the catholic faith. I went through it for a long time till the Lord led me to a church that teaches the Word of God with scriptures to back up their teachings. Please don’t leave mad Brother

One of the comments here on this thread said that the bible do not even mention the word bible in response to my comment that the bible dosen’t mention the rosary. But the bible does mention the word of God. The bible warns of long meaningless prayers and taught us the proper way to pray.

I used to be a Catholic also and know what goes on. As a Catholic I prayed for a God-fearing wife for a long time. A few years ago I got married to one. She is a non-catholic, but her faith is great. I go to her church now. The lord love me so much that he saved me and led me to the truth.

 

[JonNC]

=Derek_24ca;5400261]On The bible warns of long meaningless prayers…

Meaningless for whom?

and taught us the proper way to pray.

You know, this kind of stuff drives me :banghead:, and it comes from all quarters. A Catholic praying the Divine Mercy Chaplet, for example, is no less proper than the prayers I give in my Lutheran Church, and is certainly no less meaningful. I don’t pray the marion parts of the Rosary because in my tradition we don’t offer intercessory prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary or the saints. I’m not comfortable with the evangelical style of prayer, particularly the constant us of the direct address, “Lord” being mentioned numerous times throughout a single prayer. But in both cases, these are prayers that my brothers and sisters in Christ use before our God. May He bless them for it.

I used to be a Catholic also and know what goes on. As a Catholic I prayed for a God-fearing wife for a long time. A few years ago I got married to one. She is a non-catholic, but her faith is great. I go to her church now. The lord love me so much that he saved me and led me to the truth.

So, you give no credit to the Catholic Church for the faith you have? I’ve always said that if I ever swim the Tiber, I would still thank God for the Lutheran Church for all the swim lessons.
Jon

 

[twopekinguys]

The bible warns of long meaningless prayers and taught us the proper way to pray.
.

I came from a protestant background, and am now Roman Catholic (Thank God), so my experience is a little different than yours.

I can’t tell you how many Baptist, Nazarene, Pentacostal and Non Denominational services where the prayers being offered droned on, and on, and on, and on. All you need to do is look at some of these TV preachers that are out there.

Have you ever been to a good old fashioned Southern Baptist Tent Revival? Or a Pentacostal or Nazaren Tent Revival? I have been to all of them. Go to one of those, and talk to us about long or meaningless prayers. Not once at any of those services did anyone pray the Lord’s prayer that was taught by Jesus himself.

For me, the Mass is probably the most beautiful prayer I have ever experienced. My only regret is that I didn’t encounter it sooner. Now I can’ imagine any other kind of worship or prayer.

 

[Bill_Pick]

I came from a protestant background, and am now Roman Catholic (Thank God), so my experience is a little different than yours.

I can’t tell you how many Baptist, Nazarene, Pentacostal and Non Denominational services where the prayers being offered droned on, and on, and on, and on. All you need to do is look at some of these TV preachers that are out there.

Have you ever been to a good old fashioned Southern Baptist Tent Revival? Or a Pentacostal or Nazaren Tent Revival? I have been to all of them. Go to one of those, and talk to us about long or meaningless prayers. Not once at any of those services did anyone pray the Lord’s prayer that was taught by Jesus himself.

For me, the Mass is probably the most beautiful prayer I have ever experienced. My only regret is that I didn’t encounter it sooner. Now I can’ imagine any other kind of worship or prayer.

Amen on the Mass it is the most beautiful of all ptayers hands down

 

[ufamtobie]

Catholics pray the rosary and recite prayers to Virgin Mary. Also, Catholics pray to the saints. Another thing, catholics also use statues of the saints, Virgin Mary, and of Jesus. But dosent’ this contradict what the bible says? Instead of praying to Mary and the saints for help, why not just pray to God? And why have false idols?

Hi Derek,

(John 20: 22-23) As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23** Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained**

Derek, Jesus Christ did not say come only to me to have your sins forgiven he gave this authority to forgive mens sins to his Apostles and to their successors of course. The above bible verse states that Jesus wants the Apostles to forgive or retain our sin when we have sinned. Derek if you want your sins forgiven then you should come to the only Church that has the authority to forgive sins and that is the Catholic Church no matter if you believe it or not.

See the Catholic Church is correct and it is the only Church that has the power the breath that Jesus breathed upon them the Holy Spirit that gives them the apostles the authority which has been passed down to their successors in order to forgive or retain our sins.

Derek, the only reason why you are here is to learn the Truth, you may think you are here to find fault with the Catholic Church but the Lord Jesus has something far better for you and that is to become Catholic.

The truth is we have a loving family in heaven waiting for us and is praying for us in heaven. Remember, even Abraham while Lazarus was reclining on his chest heared the prayer of the Richman from hell. So how much more will Abraham, Virgin Mary and every saint in heaven hear us when we call/pray to them.

Ufam Tobie

 

[ufamtobie]

I don’t recall anywhere in the bible where a person prayed the Rosary. Also, the infallibility of the pope is also in question. Everyone want to see and touch the pope. As far as I know, the pope is just a man, he is not jesus.

Derek,…You are wrong! The Rosary is indeed the Bible, read it for yourself and believe the Bible verses below proves it. So stop your disobedience and and pray the Rosary below

1. (Luke 11:2-4) 2 And he said to them: When you pray, say: Father, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins, for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation.
2. (Luke1:28) And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women
3. (Luke1:42)And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
4. (Luke 1:46-55) And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name. And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him. He hath shewed might in his arm: he hath scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart. He hath put down the mighty from their seat, and hath exalted the humble. He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away. He hath received Israel his servant, being mindful of his mercy: As he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his seed for ever.

Derek, The above bible verses that you have read, is all in the Rosary. Now do you still believe that the Rosary is bad to say? I know for sure of one who hates the Rosary and that is satan and of course his demon angels as well, I sure hope you don’t fall under that catagory. Pray the Most Holy Rosary, wake up and smell the Roses that you are missing.

Ufam Tobie

 

[ufamtobie]

Is the EO under the rule of the Pope? If not for the time being there not apart of the apostolic succession.

ufam tobie

 

[elvisman]

The bible warns of long meaningless prayers and taught us the proper way to pray.

Really? Where does it say that? Show me.

Warning: This is a trick question because I already know that you’re going to point to Matt. 6:7 - which is the WRONG place to point.

 

[elvisman]

Praying for the dead, and to the saints

First, let’s consider praying for the dead. The Catholic Church teaches that Christians who are alive on earth can come to the assistance of the souls in Purgatory by (among others) intercessory prayers as well as alms giving [giving to the poor] and other pious works.

Evangelicals reject this on the basis that there is no Scriptural support whatsoever for this doctrine. [see Geisler, p. 348ff] There is not a single example, in the Bible of a person praying for a person who has died.

It’s almost funny (if it weren’t so very sad) how you shoot your mouth off without ANY proof or support for your ludicrous claims.
You are DEAD wrong here, my angry friend.

2 Maccabees 12:38-46, shows Judas Maccabee ordering sacrifices to be offered in the Temple in Jerusalem for the soldiers who wore pagan amulets into battle.

The funny thing about this is that this story is not in your shorter, edited, revisionist Protestant Bible. BUT it IS in our Catholic canon of the Scriptures and was read, studied by and believed by our Lord Jesus Christ.

**The doctrine of Purgatory is also derived from these passages, along with Luke 12:19, 1 Cor. 3:10-15. So, your claim that there is “no Scriptural support whatsoever” is HOGWASH of the lowest sort. **
Don’t you ever get tired of being wrong?

 

[freedomwriter]

It’s almost funny (if it weren’t so very sad) how you shoot your mouth off without ANY proof or support for your ludicrous claims.
You are DEAD wrong here, my angry friend.

2 Maccabees 12:38-46, shows Judas Maccabee ordering sacrifices to be offered in the Temple in Jerusalem for the soldiers who wore pagan amulets into battle.

The funny thing about this is that this story is not in your shorter, edited, revisionist Protestant Bible. BUT it IS in our Catholic canon of the Scriptures and was read, studied by and believed by our Lord Jesus Christ.

The doctrine of Purgatory is also derived from these passages, along with Luke 12:19, 1 Cor. 3:10-15. So, your claim that there is “no Scriptural support whatsoever” is HOGWASH of the lowest sort.
Don’t you ever get tired of being wrong?

For one the book of Maccabees is not part of the canon of scripture. If you read the bible you will see that neither Jesus or the disciples quoted any of these books. As for the scriptures you posted, these do not have anything to do with purgatory:shrug: LoL Come on now I showed you scripture why purgatory is not biblical Have a blessed 4th of July my friend

 

[Bill_Pick]

For one the book of Maccabees is not part of the canon of scripture. If you read the bible you will see that neither Jesus or the disciples quoted any of these books. As for the scriptures you posted, these do not have anything to do with purgatory:shrug: LoL Come on now I showed you scripture why purgatory is not biblical Have a blessed 4th of July my friend

My Father said a long time ago You can not agree with ignorance.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Its time for you to learn what your bible has to say and remember the Tradition of the Church. JN 21;25 AND REMEMBER YOU ARE SHORT A FEW BOOKS OF THE BBBLE…

 

[Nino]

your comments are like so many on this site…sarcastic…and childish…no ,we are as smart as you are…dont ever believe the propaganda your side puts out,that is a no no…a saint is a person who suffered and died for Jesus…and Truth…get that…simple but it says it!!!all of we humans are simple and plain…we are scared and want to do good…we dont know what is going to happen in the next world but we were brought up to trust in truth and hate evil…I know,I know that is outdated and frankly considered a hate crime by obama and his anti-semitic friends but thats the way it goes…the protestants are frankly weird…they hate Jesus’ mom…they never speak to her, never name a church after her and frankly…they …well I will be polite…Protestants are PC…no guts,no beliefs,and follow satan…there I have said it and I am glad,now I can go out for recess…by…

 

[Zooey]

If saints are anyone who has died and gone to Heaven, can you pray to your grandparents or other people in your family who have died?

Sure…Why not? I talk to my daddy all the time,& he went home to be with the Lord i=60 years ago come Christmas.
"godsgirl:

And, can anyone who has ever lived know for sure that they are or are not going to Heaven?

I can know to a reasonable certainty that you are in a state of grace =saved] at any particular moment.
If I give into a natural but seriously sinful impulse to, say, :bigyikes:throw somebody into the nearest turkey fryer, I am, not to put too fine a point on it, well and truly…well…going tohttp://bestsmileys.com/evil/11.gif (No joke. Just the facts, ma’am.

I have quickly reviewed this thread again, and can find no instance of someone telling a lie.
Elvisman and I do not always agree, but he is speaking his faith, not telling lies. Lies require an intent to deceive, which is not present here.
I find this kind of accusation lacking in charity, regardless of who makes it - Catholic or non-Catholic.

Jon

Thank you, Jon, again, for your presence & your:thumbsup: words.

Never said anything about intercessory prayer for each other did I. My point is prayer to someone who is called a saint.** My point is that they are dead and with christ**.

Umm…You do realize that you just said that Christ is dead?:crying:
The saints are either alive with Christ, or Christ is not risen from the dead, & the whole lot of us in this conversation (& all over the world) are "of all men most miserable, dead in our sins, & going to hell. Every single one who has ever lived is damned fro eternity.
So…Would you like to re-phrase that just a lily wean???
"freedomwriter:

They cannot hear your prayer. This is not a personal attack.

freedomwriter:

Just trying to expose those misinterpretations and if your ego gets in the way where you feel you are unteachable then take that up with the Lord.

With respect–You may want to consider taking your own advice before you try to hand it out to somebody else.

Can’t stop me from telling the truth, you can only hope to contain me. Read the scriptures slowly my brother you might learn something

Now** look**, yean, I was reading my Bible before ye were hatched, & take an old lady’s advice born of decades of experience,laddie, and dinnae try to teach ye’re granny how to suck eggs.

Meaningless for whom?

You know, this kind of stuff drives me :banghead:, and it comes from all quarters. A Catholic praying the Divine Mercy Chaplet, for example, is no less proper than the prayers I give in my Lutheran Church, and is certainly no less meaningful. I don’t pray the marion parts of the Rosary because in my tradition we don’t offer intercessory prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary or the saints. I’m not comfortable with the evangelical style of prayer, particularly the constant us of the direct address, “Lord” being mentioned numerous times throughout a single prayer. But in both cases, these are prayers that my brothers and sisters in Christ use before our God. May He bless them for it.

So, you give no credit to the Catholic Church for the faith you have? I’ve always said that if I ever swim the Tiber, I would still thank God for the Lutheran Church for all the swim lessons.
Jon

Bless you, Jon. Your Christian spirit is a bright & shining light, & a testimony to your faith in & love for Our Lord.

---

And since we are on the subject of prayer: I pray the rosary. Heck, I make rosaries. I consider it the deepest, most amazingly simple yet sophisticated way to center down into the presence of the Almighty.:shrug:So, shoot me.