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MSParrott
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Kepha15
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As someone who is 21 years old and has been in a serious, committed relationship for three years with a woman I will soon ask to be my wife, I can say with confidence that waiting until marriage for sex is not only possible, it is the most fulfilling thing that has happened to us. Our decision to stay strong in that regard has strengthened our relationship in so many more ways and better ways than it ever could have if we had given in and had sex instead.
You might think now that the sex will bring you closer, but believe me, and I know firsthand, knowing that your fiancee trusts you enough and you trust him enough to wait until you are married in order to give yourselves fully in that way brings you so much closer.
My girlfriend and I are more in love now than we’ve ever been, and being able to share our true faith and committment to the principles of that faith has been the reason, and I am positive of that.
I look forward every day to the day that I can finally have sex with her. I won’t deny it. I think about how great it will be all the time. But I also think about how much better it will be when that day finally comes when I can look her in the eye and know that she is totally and completely my wife.
You might think now that the sex will bring you closer, but believe me, and I know firsthand, knowing that your fiancee trusts you enough and you trust him enough to wait until you are married in order to give yourselves fully in that way brings you so much closer.
My girlfriend and I are more in love now than we’ve ever been, and being able to share our true faith and committment to the principles of that faith has been the reason, and I am positive of that.
I look forward every day to the day that I can finally have sex with her. I won’t deny it. I think about how great it will be all the time. But I also think about how much better it will be when that day finally comes when I can look her in the eye and know that she is totally and completely my wife.
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imperfect
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I wanted to just stop by and let anyone who is interested have a little update about us.
It’s been 19 months since I posted my initial question and we have come such a long way!
I am now based in Canada (we bought a house together) and we are due to get married on the 10th October of this year (less than two months away!).
This weekend is the start of our wedding preparation course and though I am still not quite sure how my feistyness fits within the catholic church and its teachings, I have been accepted by his priest and he’s supportive of our relationship.
We live together and have done for the last 9 months, but only in the sense that we share a house. It is my (Anglican) mum who seems most uncomfortable with this situation (she refers to us as “living over the brush”). His priest chastised us for “playing at house” until I explained that we were abstaining, at which point his tone and everything about him changed from judgmental to supportive, and his parents encouraged us to live together to be “sure”.
One thing I did learn from this site is that being a young catholic on today’s modern society is tough, and I am not convinced that the previous generation – or a large chunk of the previous generation – appreciate just how hard it is. A supportive, mentoring and considerate approach to the teaching of the catholic church as opposed to a judgmental and lecturing style will always work best – in my opinion.
Many thanks for your support and guidance and if you can spare a thought or prayer for us I would greatly appreciate it.
Kind regards,
It’s been 19 months since I posted my initial question and we have come such a long way!
I am now based in Canada (we bought a house together) and we are due to get married on the 10th October of this year (less than two months away!).
This weekend is the start of our wedding preparation course and though I am still not quite sure how my feistyness fits within the catholic church and its teachings, I have been accepted by his priest and he’s supportive of our relationship.
We live together and have done for the last 9 months, but only in the sense that we share a house. It is my (Anglican) mum who seems most uncomfortable with this situation (she refers to us as “living over the brush”). His priest chastised us for “playing at house” until I explained that we were abstaining, at which point his tone and everything about him changed from judgmental to supportive, and his parents encouraged us to live together to be “sure”.
One thing I did learn from this site is that being a young catholic on today’s modern society is tough, and I am not convinced that the previous generation – or a large chunk of the previous generation – appreciate just how hard it is. A supportive, mentoring and considerate approach to the teaching of the catholic church as opposed to a judgmental and lecturing style will always work best – in my opinion.
Many thanks for your support and guidance and if you can spare a thought or prayer for us I would greatly appreciate it.
Kind regards,
J
jenlovesyu
Guest
Catholic teaching forbids non-married couples from living together. Whether you are being chaste or not, cohabitation is a sin of scandal. Your priest is encouraging sin which is not good.
Also, I don’t have a source at the moment, but the divorce rate appears to be higher for those who live together before they are married.
IMHO I think you should get a new priest who abides completely by Catholic teaching.
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SaltySirena
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Man… some things are just never good enough for some people.
They made the choice to abstain! That is radical in and of itself!
So they’re not completely perfect! They are working to get everything together so that they will be right with God. Maybe the priest is thinking pastorally, in that these people are trying really hard and he wants to encourage them in that!
imperfect, I congratulate you on your restraint and your respect for your boyfriend’s faith. I read the first post from long ago, and I think you recognized the damage that having sex would have on him as a serious, faithful young Catholic. The fact that you respected that and restrained yourself from seducing him, and that he is restraining himself to show his commitment to his faith AND you, is impressive in my book.
I wish you much love and luck as a faithful, sacramentally married couple. Don’t listen to the people who will dismiss the Herculean things you have accomplished in order to nitpick the tiny details.
jenlovesyu, faith is a journey. Not everyone gets there at the same time or the same speed. This priest is probably encouraging them in what they are doing right, respecting that the steps they have taken are huge for them!
They made the choice to abstain! That is radical in and of itself!
So they’re not completely perfect! They are working to get everything together so that they will be right with God. Maybe the priest is thinking pastorally, in that these people are trying really hard and he wants to encourage them in that!
imperfect, I congratulate you on your restraint and your respect for your boyfriend’s faith. I read the first post from long ago, and I think you recognized the damage that having sex would have on him as a serious, faithful young Catholic. The fact that you respected that and restrained yourself from seducing him, and that he is restraining himself to show his commitment to his faith AND you, is impressive in my book.
I wish you much love and luck as a faithful, sacramentally married couple. Don’t listen to the people who will dismiss the Herculean things you have accomplished in order to nitpick the tiny details.
jenlovesyu, faith is a journey. Not everyone gets there at the same time or the same speed. This priest is probably encouraging them in what they are doing right, respecting that the steps they have taken are huge for them!
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CuriousInIL
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I would be interested if there was any support for the concept that the divorce rate is higher for those that live together–but abstain–before marriage. I have seen the stats that show that for folks that have premarital relations.
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agapewolf
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Support for the concept I can give.
People who live together have less freedom to say their vows. They already own a house/couch/dog together…the idea of having to have such a huge life change of moving on top of a breakup is unfathomable for folks who are already emotionally and financially invested in a wedding day. So much is invested that it clouds true judgement and discernment of the situation.
Living together (even just roommates of the same sex) has challenges. A couple that is discerning their vocation together don’t need those challenges in the middle of preparing for the sacrament. After the sacrament of marriage, a couple gets the grace to deal with all the challenges of being married.
The temptations and scandal are additional and serious concerns.
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imperfect
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I am actually a little upset by this opinion.
Why do we have less freedom to say our vows?
We are in a considered relationship. This is not a lust driven partnership, this is a love driven one. The temptations are no more or less not that we share a place to live than they were when we didn’t. We have worked hard to get to the point we are at now. Aside from the struggles with two different faiths – and please remember that you are talking to a couple who cares enough to research this, to be asking questions, to be looking for guidance and mentorship from elders – we lived on other sides of the Atlantic which has posed it’s own challenges.
We have earned the freedom to say our vows and will be saying them with pride and love and respect and I don’t not believe – and will never believe – that our God would judge us or class us as sinners for anything we have done.
The other point I need to address here is the mention of divorce. How dare you, or anyone, tarnish our up and coming plans with talk of divorce – dooming our wedding before it has even started. It should not even be a consideration for catholics – or christians – and I have no doubt – none what so ever – that this marriage will work. It will not end in divorce because that is not even an option. We are not living in a dream world, we know a marriage has to be worked at and that there are up and downs, but the last 4 years of being together has also had up and downs and it’s given us confidence and faith in our relationship. We will work through whatever we face.
I am GLAD we have a priest who is willing to take a moment and consider our situation. To, no doubt, set us aside others in his parish who he sees and speaks to and guides to cherish this young couple who are caring enough and respectful enough to go to the lengths we have. Perhaps he is more in touch with The Modern Catholic and knows just how many people do not do what we have done, do not sacrifice, do not care and just want the big white wedding.
We can all find statistics to meet our side of the argument, I’m sure, but I think you would be hard pressed to show me figures specifically related to our situation – an English Anglican girl marrying a Catholic Canadian boy having given up her life and family in England, subdued her own beliefs and views to support his Church (and thus him), who goes to church every weekend happily and take counsel from their catholic elders, and who live together but who do not have sex – and consciously/thoughtfully/consideredly abstain.
I believe, I really really do believe, that we should be celebrated and having us as a role model for his parish is something for our priest to be proud of.
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agapewolf
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I explained why there is less freedom to say the vows, and I stated that clearly. Please read it again. One has to be free to say no in order for their yes to mean something. I never ever referred to you specifically here, but was replying to the pp, in generalities.
When a couple owns things together, their freedom to say no to their vows is lessened. That is one of the things required for a valid marriage…come freely, with full consent.
I didn’t mention divorce, however, there was a question about it, and yes, the stats are there that those who live together before marriage have a higher divorce rate.
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jenlovesyu
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I just thought we, all Catholics, were always supposed to abide by Catholic teaching 
Placing two people in the same home who have struggled with sexual impurity doesn’t sound like it’s going to help much…just saying…
Here’s what an apologist said on it:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=72049
Placing two people in the same home who have struggled with sexual impurity doesn’t sound like it’s going to help much…just saying…
Here’s what an apologist said on it:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=72049
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Tezza
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Just read through your post. Glad you took the higher and more difficult road. May God bless you and your fiancee.
Peace in Christ,
Teri
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Gordon_Sims
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Although we’re supposed to, I can’t think of a single person I know who abides by it 100% of the time. The fact that Imperfect has made such a difficult choice given her situation I think speaks volumes about her character and commitment. I think she should be supported & commended and not chastised for failing to live up to someone else’s standards.I just thought we, all Catholics, were always supposed to abide by Catholic teaching
As far as the sin of scandal goes, I’ve always wondered about who that should apply to more: the person who puts themself into the situation, or the people who gossip & pass judgment? Because, at least from my personal experience, 90% of scandals are in the eyes, or rather words of the beholder. When my wife & I were dating/engaged, it was extremely scandalous to some. She was a single teenage mother, which was bad enough to some people, but these same people also “knew” that we were engaging in premarital sex and all other sorts of depravity. Was I being sinful for falling in love and sticking to my beliefs, or were the people who chose to let their prejudices fuel gossip about us the ones committing a sin?
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jenlovesyu
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After skimming through this whole thread I have found that I have overlooked a few things.
Imperfect: I apologize for what I previously posted. I didn’t quite understand your situation and considering this is an internet forum there’s no way I could possibly understand more than the tip of the iceberg. Your choice to abstain is commendable and at any rate, I hope and pray that God blesses your relationship and upcoming marriage.
My attack towards you didn’t stem from my wanting to be judgmental, but out of frustration. I am actually pregnant out of wedlock which has given some people a reason to regard me as “lesser-than.” Some people think I am a cause for scandal 'cause apparently being pregnant=sin. I am not referring to anyone on these forums. But the hostility is out there.
This by no means justifies my hypocritical behavior towards you. I sincerely apologize for my actions.
And thank you Gordon because your post put things in a different perspective for me.
I stand corrected.
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johngh
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I used to feel the same way you did. I didn’t see what could be wrong with two people that love each other getting close physically (though I have always been against premarital sex simply because of the rational consequences that can come of it. If you were to get pregnant there would be a lot of issues with that). Thank God my girlfriend was able to help me see the truth, which is that a lot of things really should be saved for marriage. The reasons for this are many, and some are more subtle than others, but since my girlfriend and I set very clear boundaries our relationship has actually gotten much stronger.
Honestly when you get right down to it, him having sex with you would have absolutely nothing to do with having Faith in you. If anything, the way to show someone you have faith in them is to abstain until marriage. When you married, having sex is a way of showing someone you love them. But when you are not married, the way to show them you love them is to abstain.
So I beg you, please stop trying to force him. I think he is right in this case, and it would be sinful of you to try and force him into sin. The optimal thing to do would be to scale back what you’ve done already physically, but that might be asking too much in this situation. The important thing though is to not have sex until you are married, because there are many ways you could end up regretting that decision.
Honestly when you get right down to it, him having sex with you would have absolutely nothing to do with having Faith in you. If anything, the way to show someone you have faith in them is to abstain until marriage. When you married, having sex is a way of showing someone you love them. But when you are not married, the way to show them you love them is to abstain.
So I beg you, please stop trying to force him. I think he is right in this case, and it would be sinful of you to try and force him into sin. The optimal thing to do would be to scale back what you’ve done already physically, but that might be asking too much in this situation. The important thing though is to not have sex until you are married, because there are many ways you could end up regretting that decision.
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SaltySirena
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johngh, I think you need to read imperfect’s update on page 6…
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EmBee
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I don’t have the stats, but DH and I were handed plenty of pamphlets at our day-long, group, pre-marriage counseling session that listed the numbers … We lived together (chastely) before marriage. We were up front with our priest about it. This was his advice:
Before living together, couples have to “fight” to see each other in between work, friends, parents and personal commitments. Once a couple lives together, they see each other more often and discussions can “wait until later.” Couples who live together before they are married are also at risk of limiting communication. No communication causes problems. Problems lead to divorce. If you two are going to continue living together, make sure you continue talking to each other.
ETA: I should probably also say that DH, a cradle Catholic, has admitted feeling resentful of the fact that we lived together before marriage. I, a convert, feel guilty that I participated in something that made him feel resentful, and I am truly sorry for any scandal I may have cause, but I am not sorry we lived together prior to marrying.
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