PreCana

[dragonfly85]

I’m not mad, I’m just trying to let kleary know how I feel and see things, since he is saying that I am wrong.

I don’t believe anyone is wrong here. I believe in letting people believe in what they want to believe in. I will keep replying if he keeps thinking that his way is the only right way, because it’s not.

 

[That_one_guy]

I’m not mad, I’m just trying to let kleary know how I feel and see things, since he is saying that I am wrong.

I don’t believe anyone is wrong here. I believe in letting people believe in what they want to believe in. I will keep replying if he keeps thinking that his way is the only right way, because it’s not.

Ok,then.I think I am repeating a lot of stuff everybody else has already said.But, if you are a real Catholic and honestly DO subscribe to the faith,… then you are wrong.

You asked for it,…you got it.

I bet everyone who said that you are wrong is Catholic.
sorry.

 

[kleary]

I’m not mad, I’m just trying to let kleary know how I feel and see things, since he is saying that I am wrong.

I don’t believe anyone is wrong here. I believe in letting people believe in what they want to believe in. I will keep replying if he keeps thinking that his way is the only right way, because it’s not.

You see dragon lady (Virginia used like “Yes Virginia there is a Santa Clause” phrase in Miracle on 34’th St.) the difference is seen immediately here. You say “the way he thinks…thinking his way is the only right way”.

I am not a “non-Catholic”. In “reformed christianity” they operate in your way of thinking. In their way men only give their opinions as to what they think the truth is.

In Catholicism we do not operate that way. When I tell you that your way is wrong I am speaking for what the Catholic Church teaches. I am sorry that I have not backed things up with quotes from the Catechism to show you “This is what the Church teaches ans here is where you can find it”.

The damages done by the Protestant Reformation are so clear here. I ofen hear my own family members say the same as you when I tell them it is wrong to use Artificial Contraception for any reason or have an abortion for any reason. They think like you that it is simply my opinion- but it is not my opinion- it is the teaching of the Catholic Church- teaching that all Catholics must believe or obey lest they suffer committing grave sin or are excommunicated- as you yourself have already been by your own admissions here.

I keep replying because you keep replying saying more stuff claiming you are a Catholic- one who doubts the ressurection of Jesus Christ, the necessity of the Sacrament of Penance and also belief in reincarnation. These things make you NOT Catholic anymore. You need to repent, get to confession for your disbelief- pray to Our Lady to help you with your disbelief. Stop reading all those new age books with feminist agenda…watch EWTN if you can- every day that you can.

Go to Catholic Answers - www.catholic.com and look through all the materials they have there.

Ken

 

[CassiusLonginus]

I’m not mad, I’m just trying to let kleary know how I feel and see things, since he is saying that I am wrong.

I don’t believe anyone is wrong here. I believe in letting people believe in what they want to believe in. I will keep replying if he keeps thinking that his way is the only right way, because it’s not.

Why do you persist in calling yourself a Catholic? Unfortunately, you don’t act like one and have already excluded yourself by the very fact of what you have written. Why are you in denial of the facts? Everybody knows that the first step in fixing a problem is to first acknowledge that there IS a problem. Once you do that you can begin your rehabilitation to the Catholic Church. Until that time, you are an outsider. I wish you a SPEEDY recovery! For the sake of your own immortal soul, please see a priest immediately and tell him everything that you have said here.

Also, please keep in mind that the Catholic faith, unlike other christian faiths, isn’t based on a book. Our faith is based on divine revelation…Christ, God incarnate, his messengers (priesthood), His Word (spoken and written) and His guidance (Holy Ghost). And BTW, though God isn’t necessarily a “He”, that’s how He wants us to talk to/about him. Jesus was a Man, he prayed to His Father in the garden of Gethsemane, etc.

Perhaps I should start calling myself a Jew…or an African American…Or a martian…I mean, if we can call ourselves anything we want, what does it matter that we’re not in fact the thing that we call ourselves??? Ooh, I’ve got it. Everybody, please start referring to me as an illegal alien.

Bottom line, if you’re not a Catholic, why do you say you are?

I’m not a Jew. I don’t act like a jew. I don’t go to a synagogue, but even if I did, that’s not all there is to being a Jew. If I go to a synagogue but don’t actually believe as the Jews believe, in what way am I a jew??? I’m not. Duh. Please come back to the Church. The more you honor Christ through his legitimate church, the more He will bless you and your family in the ways that are important.

And one last quick note regarding your disdain of sacramental confession. One of the six precepts of the Church is to go to Confession at least once a year.

Yes, you are wrong about many things.

 

[CassiusLonginus]

Sorry, I didn’t know where else to post this…

Hi, I live in MO, USA, and my husband and I just got married in May '08. We did not attend any PreCana classes when we we’re asked to. We we’re just too busy. Is our marriage legit? I read somewhere that you HAVE to attend, but I thought we we’re okay if we didn’t. Worried, please answer.

Thanks much!

By the way…After reading the rest of the thread, I don’t see why you’re even asking the original question to begin with. You’re worried about your marriage…for what reason??? You said you’re WORRIED. Why would you worry about a technicality when you already flippantly reject half of Catholicism???

You said: “I read somewhere that you HAVE to attend”

I reply: you have to do a lot of things that you aren’t doing, so what do you care about what somebody said? You already disregard what the Church has commanded, and your worried about something somebody said? You already show that you do not care at all (except for the things that you want to follow), whether you’ve actually realized it or not. Please realize that there is a problem here. Take your husband and both of you, go talk to a priest.

 

[cathybramble]

I am faithful to God in my own way. It doesn’t mean I am wrong.

it’s about following God’s will, not doing things our own way. humans have a knack for rationalizing whatever suits them in the moment - we lose our moral compass that way.

 

[kleary]

No I am not wrong.

The Catholic Church has said your beliefs, that you have stated here in public forum, are wrong. Should we take them on one by one? You can find many at www.catholic.com already answered in the library section there.

I can believe what I want.

A Catholic can believe what they want if it does not go against what has already been defined by the Catholic Church. A Catholic must believe everything defined by an Ecumenical Council or the Pope in matters of the faith. They must obey all matters of morals and discipline.

I know that I am not wrong.

How do you know? Please submit proof.

(On the Resurrection of Jesus) I will never know, you will never know, you weren’t there to see it.

The martyrdom of all the Disciples who saw Jesus alive again, St. Paul who was like those Orthodox Jews of today converted and then beheaded. These men were killed because they refused to give up the FACT that they saw Him alive again after being dead for three days. I KNOW FOR A FACT HE ROSE FROM THE DEAD." The evidence is too overwhelming…no one else had ever rose from the dead- not Buddah, not Mohammed, no one- Jesus had witnesses and they ALL WENT TO THEIR DEATH BECAUSE THEY WOULD NOT RECANT.

Whats wrong with believeing in reincarnation?

Catechism of the Catholic Church 1013 "Death is the end of man’s earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. When “the single course of our earthly life” is completed,586 we shall not return to other earthly lives: "It is appointed for men to die once.“587 There is no “reincarnation” after death.”

I am still catholic whether you think I should be or not.

Paragraph 1013 says Catholics do not believe in reincarnation. If you do then you are not Catholic.

I believe in things from the religion, and others I don’t.

That is not Catholic, it is Protestant. They picked and chose what to believe from the Church when they left in the 16’th century. A Catholic MUST believe ALL or they face being excommunicated ipso-fact.

I have the right to do it.

Not the right to claim to be Catholic - you most certainly have the right to find yourself another religion to believe in- even go and invent one of your own if you want.

Why is this making you so mad???

The things you are saying are everywhere. I hear so many people say to me “That is B.S. - I am Catholic and I had a vesectomy years ago”, or, “I am Catholic but I do not believe in all that stuff- all archaic.” I hear it from people at work, my own family and friends- my family has been divided by people like yourself who have lead them astray- they say they are Catholic- yet they deny the faith with their mouths and actions to drag others down with them.

As Catholics we must do all we can when we see someone like yourself who is lost…and believe me you are lost. If you are going to claim to be a Catholic- you must believe in EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches. To pick and choose is not Catholic.

Ken

 

[That_one_guy]

If you are going to claim to be a Catholic- you must believe in EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches. To pick and choose is not Catholic.

Ken

THAT’S WHAT I’M HOLLERIN ABOUT!!!

 

[cathybramble]

…]

As Catholics we must do all we can when we see someone like yourself who is lost…and believe me you are lost. If you are going to claim to be a Catholic- you must believe in EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches. To pick and choose is not Catholic.

Ken

i think the expression is “cafeteria catholic”

 

[r4j]

Amen brother. If you claim to be Catholic, you must accept all that the Church proposes for our faith - that’s part of the faith. We don’t and can’t make it up as we go along. We can’t will the truth into existence. The poor, poor suffering souls who think they have a better idea than God, how they suffer. If you look to the wisdom behind the Church’s teachings, you will see that what the Church teaches if for our welfare not our woe. Remember, only the Magisterium of the Church has the guaranty of the Holy Spirit. You and I have the Holy Spirit but we don’t have the guaranty of the Holy Spirit. We make all kinds of mistakes. As someone once said - God has put obvious limits on our intelligence, but not at all on our ignorance. Our puny little minds are prone to error. That’s wy we have the Magisterium, it takes all the pressure off.

 

[dragonfly85]

So I am supposed to have tons of babies even thought I was told by my doctor that my heart condition could get worse? I don’t think so. That is why I was adopting. And that is bull if we have to risk our own lives to bring tons of babies into this world when its alreayd overpopulated.

My question was about my marriage being legit after being married in the Catholic church and not able to attend precana. If it only had to do with NFP, then I didn’t need it anyways cuz I HAVE A HEART CONDITION! We are not having children, we are adoption children.

See, I’m not the only one who thinks this way if you say you talk to others in your family and such who see the way I do. Guess we are the new age catholics. Things will prolly eventually change.

I will not be going to a priest any time soon for my ‘sins’. I don’t believe I have committed any.

Thank you.

 

[r4j]

I only now saw your original question about pre-cana. I don’t know for sure but I do believe like someone said earlier that your marriage is valid. One good thing about pre-cana - if it’s a well run pre-cana - it teaches couples about what love is. Basically, look at crucifix - self donating, self sacrificing love that pours itself out and doesn’t count the cost (to paraphrase Fr. Corapi).
I must comment dragonfly that in reading many of your other comments, you do seem a bit all over the place when it comes to your faith. Be careful, study your faith, learn about it. Kleary is dead on with his or her advice. He/she is speaking the truth, in love. What better friend can you ask for.
As for you heart condition and children. God does not force us to have children - He does not force us to do anything. You are correct, your heart condition would indicate that you are not called to have children naturally. And adoption is a beautiful calling. I have always burned to adopt but it does not appear to be for my life.
And God does ask us to take care of nature. It is a gift from God as well.

 

[dragonfly85]

Thank you r4j. You are the first person who did not jump down my throat on this forum, and I really appreciate it and the tone of your post.

 

[Dicerning]

So I am supposed to have tons of babies even thought I was told by my doctor that my heart condition could get worse? I don’t think so. That is why I was adopting. And that is bull if we have to risk our own lives to bring tons of babies into this world when its alreayd overpopulated.

My question was about my marriage being legit after being married in the Catholic church and not able to attend precana. If it only had to do with NFP, then I didn’t need it anyways cuz I HAVE A HEART CONDITION! We are not having children, we are adoption children.

See, I’m not the only one who thinks this way if you say you talk to others in your family and such who see the way I do. Guess we are the new age catholics. Things will prolly eventually change.

I will not be going to a priest any time soon for my ‘sins’. I don’t believe I have committed any.

Thank you.

When I ponder our beloved pope and what he mentions as a “smaller purer church” I am reinforced in confidence of his comments on posts such as this. WIth that in mind I am also saddened.

 

[kleary]

If you would have learned Natural Family Planning you would have learned how to track the cycle and abstain during the fertile time to avoid having children.

If you have a medical condition the Church would see that as a valid reason to use NFP to avoid conceiving children. But Artificial Contraception and all contraceptive meathods other than abstaining during the fertile time is forbidden.

Ken

 

[kleary]

You see…

If you attended Pre-Cana classes they would have taught you the things you can and cannot do in your marriage (such as oral or coitus being forbidden). All actions must be open to life as the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches. They would have pointed you to people in your Diocese that run the Natural Family Planning classes as well for you to learn when to abstain from marital relations in order to avoid pregnancy in the event of a grave situation such as yours.

We must trust in God. Fr. Serpa who answers questions in the AAA forum tells of his own experience as to his mother. She was told she would die if she became pregnant but she refused to use contraceptives. Fr. Serpa was born normally- no complications and a miracle from what I remember.

There is also the example of a saint, Saint Gianna who was told to have an abortion or she would die a painful death after giving birth- she chose death in order to give life to her daughter- a very painful death…she is a hero to the Church- to the pro-life movement. God sometimes calls us to suffer alongside Him.

Curious. Would you have an abortion if you find out you are pregnant?

Ken

 

[Dicerning]

You see…

Curious. Would you have an abortion if you find out you are pregnant?

Ken

I believe this is out of line Ken.

Perhaps we can return to the topic. The OP asked if the Marriage is valid. (which seems odd since the OP chooses to believe what she wants anyway.)

My deanery and diocese doesn’t even offer pre-cana anymore. I believe engaged encounters are all the rage.

I do wonder if the OP’s parish priest dropped the ball here where there was little to no contact regarding Marriage prep. I know that in a similar situation I would be hesitant to “preside” over such a marriage.

 

[r4j]

Interesting thought Dicerning (I know it’s spelled wrong) about presiding over a marriage that’s not gone through pre-cana. It made me think of all the kids who go through confirmation who really are not fully aware or open to what’s happening. Of course, the sacrament will be valid but the amount of grace received could be very little or none. If the recipient of the sacrament were to later realize the true nature of the sacrament and open themselves up to it, I’ve been told that the grace would be revived and become active in the life of the person. So all is not lost.

 

[Regi]

We went to an Engaged Encounter prior to our marriage. We felt we did not have time for it and were “forced” into attending, but it was one of the most fulfilling and spiritual events we ever attended.

Even my husband, who is not Catholic, was amazed at how much we received from it and it was a perfect start to our marriage and future together.

I would encourage the OP to try to attend one now - we had a couple in our group who were already married. I am sure now that the wedding is over, they can find more time. (A wedding is a day, a marriage is a lifetime…)

I would also like to state that the OP has a lot more to worry about than if her marriage is valid. Maybe if she spends some time here, she will learn to embrace her Catholic faith and come to love it and live it.

(By the way, what does “Eclectic Catholic” mean?!?!

God’s blessings to you!

 

[Dicerning]

Interesting thought Dicerning (I know it’s spelled wrong) about presiding over a marriage that’s not gone through pre-cana. It made me think of all the kids who go through confirmation who really are not fully aware or open to what’s happening. Of course, the sacrament will be valid but the amount of grace received could be very little or none. If the recipient of the sacrament were to later realize the true nature of the sacrament and open themselves up to it, I’ve been told that the grace would be revived and become active in the life of the person. So all is not lost.

Ok fair enough. The normal minister for the sacrament of Confirmation is the bishop. The ministers for Matirimony are the coulple themselves with the priest or deacon as a witness.

Based on what you say. The permanency of the sacrament is the same for both which is true. However the ramifications to not being fully aware of what is happening can be far more damaging in the sacrament of Matrimony…especially if innocent bystanders (children) are involved. As a deacon I would never willingly materially participate in such an important event if the couple expressed little interest in practicing their faith. Based on the OPs comments and after viewing her link to her personal blog, it would be fair to deduce that she is not interested in being more than a cultural Catholic.