Pregnant Confirmation Canidate

[revert_jen]

I find this whole thread extremely ironic.

I have never heard so many people uncharitably tell someone else to be charitable in one place before.

So many people have responded to the OP calling him a “a bully” and “wicked,” and telling him he is damaging children and all sorts of other things.

And acting like writing a letter to the bishop about it indicates he is unfit ever to be in the presence of young people.

I’ll say right now, that I agree that the child should be allowed to participate in Confirmation, and that I imagine that a letter to the bishop would rightly result in no action being taken.

That is not my point. My point is that if the Lord demands charity toward someone who has done something of which the OP disapproves, the Lord also demands charity toward someone who has done something of which you disapprove. If treating the girl badly is going to turn her away from the Church, how is treating the OP badly going to bring him to your point of view?

The general trend of treating the OP with exactly the same scorn that people are judging him for, in thinking about the girl (nobody has any evidence that he has ever said anything bad to the girl or about her to anyone that knows her) is almost funny. One notable exception (not the only exception) is SwizzleStick–thank you for the charitable tenor of your posts. I think some of the others of you, while well intentioned, have maybe not looked at the issue from both sides.

There are, tragically, girls who are raped and abused and drugged. There are also, unfortunately, girls who intentionally (and unrepentantly) get pregnant at a very young age, so they can “have something that is just theirs” or “be grown up” or keep a boyfriend from straying. Of course, having a baby at 14 doesn’t do any of those things, and the girls generally (but not always) learn that. These latter sort of girls probably do need to repent before being confirmed, and it is possible that if the girl is one of the latter sort, and her friends know it, other girls will get the idea that it is OK to do it, and may hurt themselves in the same way.

The OP is wrong about attempting to exclude the girl from confirmation because he just can’t know enough of the circumstances. However, that doesn’t mean that he is evil or deranged or anything like that. The girl’s confirmation may in fact cause scandal. If the OP is worried about it because of the effect on other girls, it is a compassionate and caring thing for him to worry about. The point of scandal is that it can lead others to sin, not that it looks bad in the newspaper.

The idea that all priests take these things into account and do the correct thing instead of the expedient thing is a nice idea, but I think we all know it is not true. Even a faithful, holy priest (much holier than I am), when faced with this situation, may opt for the easy way and not enquire too closely, to avoid the sort of reactions that the OP has been getting. Which is why writing to the bishop is not “gossip.” The bishop knows his priests (probably), and will know whether there is likely to be a problem or not.

–Jen

 

[revert_jen]

Shame on you! She STILL has a lot of potential for success in her life. A baby is not a curse but a blessing! This is precisely what is wrong in our society. We treat women as if having a baby is a burden and should be avoided. “Oh don’t do that, that’ll ruin your life.” This is exactly why people are turning to contraception and abortion. Because they see a baby as ending their life of freedom, their life of success. It’s only when we realize the beauty of the child and dignity of the child inside her womb, and the blessing it will be on her life (planned or not) that we begin to see the miracle of Christ living in each and every one of us.

While I agree with almost all of what you say, I have to disagree about its application in the current situation.

I am extremely pro-life, but if you think that having a baby at 14 (unless she puts it up for adoption) doesn’t diminish a girl’s prospects for happy marriage, finishing her education, and living a life that is above the poverty line, you are fooling yourself. Of course her life is not over, and may God heap blessings on her for having the baby, who is a unique human being beloved by God. But her prospects have changed for the worse. Nobody says that rape is good because a blessing (a child) can come from it. Likewise, it is not anti-life to say that it is sad that an unmarried 14-year-old girl is pregnant.

Saying that girls shouldn’t get pregnant at 14 is not the same as saying that married 28-year-old career women should contracept. Being pregnant is a burden that I hope all unmarried 14-year-olds avoid. And that I hope all married women welcome.

–Jen

 

[SwizzleStick]

…The general trend of treating the OP with exactly the same scorn that people are judging him for, in thinking about the girl (nobody has any evidence that he has ever said anything bad to the girl or about her to anyone that knows her) is almost funny. One notable exception (not the only exception) is SwizzleStick–thank you for the charitable tenor of your posts. I think some of the others of you, while well intentioned, have maybe not looked at the issue from both sides. …

Thank you for that. I did think about it and try to look at it from both sides. I do understand that scandal is a very serious sin and should be avoided. It happens all too frequently in our fallen world. But, I also think that the priest has to be aware of the situation if it is so obvious. If he thinks the girl is ready for Confirmation, then I think he as pastor should have the say on the matter.

 

[maryjk]

While I agree with almost all of what you say, I have to disagree about its application in the current situation.

I am extremely pro-life, but if you think that having a baby at 14 (unless she puts it up for adoption) doesn’t diminish a girl’s prospects for happy marriage, finishing her education, and living a life that is above the poverty line, you are fooling yourself. Of course her life is not over, and may God heap blessings on her for having the baby, who is a unique human being beloved by God. But her prospects have changed for the worse. Nobody says that rape is good because a blessing (a child) can come from it. Likewise, it is not anti-life to say that it is sad that an unmarried 14-year-old girl is pregnant.

Saying that girls shouldn’t get pregnant at 14 is not the same as saying that married 28-year-old career women should contracept. Being pregnant is a burden that I hope all unmarried 14-year-olds avoid. And that I hope all married women welcome.

–Jen

Who said she was 14??? SwizzleStick commented that her son was 14 when he was Confirmed. But here, students are in the eleventh grade for Confirmation so they are anywhere between 16 and 18. It could be that she is 19. We haven’t been told.

What we do know is that the OP wants to find out if there is somewhere he can have her sent until she gives birth. The OP also thinks that she should wait to be Confirmed, because she is pregnant. The OP gives us no more information about the young lady other than he is concerned about children seeing her “waddle” up the aisle. (As if the child haven’t seen her at class and Mass. )

 

[SwizzleStick]

Who said she was 14??? SwizzleStick commented that her son was 14 when he was Confirmed. But here, students are in the eleventh grade for Confirmation so they are anywhere between 16 and 18. It could be that she is 19. We haven’t been told…

It is true that we don’t know the age of the girl. I was hoping that information would be forthcoming, but as of yet, we just don’t know.

…What we do know is that the OP wants to find out if there is somewhere he can have her sent until she gives birth. The OP also thinks that she should wait to be Confirmed, because she is pregnant. The OP gives us no more information about the young lady other than he is concerned about children seeing her “waddle” up the aisle. (As if the child haven’t seen her at class and Mass. )

Yes, that does seem to sum up the OPs views.

I think waiting to confirm the young lady would be a mistake, because doing that could negatively affect the girl’s practice of her Faith in the future. My thinking is probably influenced due to the fact that we have two young men in the family who were not confirmed at the age when it is customarily done here. As a result, they likely will not ever be confirmed unless they return to the Church later in life. The idea that they may never return Home saddens me greatly.

 

[revert_jen]

Who said she was 14??? SwizzleStick commented that her son was 14 when he was Confirmed. But here, students are in the eleventh grade for Confirmation so they are anywhere between 16 and 18. It could be that she is 19. We haven’t been told.

Well I was confirmed at 13, so it sounded reasonable to me. And I do happen to know a 14-year-old who did get pregnant for the reasons that I mentioned in my earlier post.

In any case, I think it’s fair to assume that the girl is not married (or where would the scandal be?) and is still in school.

I think my point is still valid. It’s not anti-life to say that it is not good for unmarried schoolgirls to get pregnant. It’s much worse for unmarried schoolgirls to go through the horror of abortion, of course. But just because Thing B is worse than Thing A, doesn’t make Thing A good.

–Jen

 

[Cider]

Also note I never mentioned the girl’s name, so all the forum has to go on is that its some girl that is pregnant somewhere in a catholic parish, of which there are how many on the planet?

Your location is in your profile and also shows on every post you make. So this is hardly an issue of any random parish on the whole planet. We all know you are in Monterey California. How many Catholic girls up for confirmation this year, with a belly, does your diocese have? Yeah, it’s amazing how those theoretical numbers just dwindled isn’t it.

I don’t hate her, I think she made a major mistake and committed a major sin. She must now face the music of being a young single parent. She actually had a lot of potential for success in her life.

agreed

How do you even know she is pregnant? Some girls carry extra weight in the stomach. And if she is how do you know how she became pregnant? I think you are seriously overstepping here. As for the rest of you comments, just wow. I agree with what everyone else posted regarding more appropriate ways for you to contribute your time.

 

[Cristiano]

…I think my point is still valid. It’s not anti-life to say that it is not good for unmarried schoolgirls to get pregnant. It’s much worse for unmarried schoolgirls to go through the horror of abortion, of course. But just because Thing B is worse than Thing A, doesn’t make Thing A good.

–Jen

I disagree with you. It is not good for unmarried schoolgirls to have sexual relationships. It is always good when women get pregnant. Only God knows how the good will come from a pregnancy, we only know that every pregnancy is good in itself. Hard consequences do not imply evil, they simply imply challenges.

 

[monmon_t]

My niece recently had a baby and when the priest found out he kicked her out of religion classes and told her she would be a bad influence to the others. I don’t know what to think of that. I keep thinking that instead of kicking her out the priest should have talked to her and tried to get her to repent and sin no more like Jesus did with Mary Magdeline. I have nothing against the priest I just think he could have handled it in a more forgiving way.

 

[maryjk]

Well I was confirmed at 13, so it sounded reasonable to me. And I do happen to know a 14-year-old who did get pregnant for the reasons that I mentioned in my earlier post.

I was Confirmed at 18. And I know a girl that got pregnant in middle school, at 13. Neither matters, because we don’t know how old this young woman is.

In any case, I think it’s fair to assume that the girl is not married (or where would the scandal be?) and is still in school.

But the solution to scandal isn’t sending the young woman away until she gives birth. There is no scandal in Confirming a sinner. We are all sinners.

I think my point is still valid. It’s not anti-life to say that it is not good for unmarried schoolgirls to get pregnant. It’s much worse for unmarried schoolgirls to go through the horror of abortion, of course. But just because Thing B is worse than Thing A, doesn’t make Thing A good.

–Jen

I don’t know that anyone here WANTS young unmarried women to go out and plan to get pregnant.

The problem is, the OP wants to send her away. He knows nothing of the circumstances of the possible pregnancy, but his solution is to find somewhere to send her. His next step is to deny her the sacraments. Now, I would think that sinners are the ones most in need of the sacraments. Could you imagine denying someone access to Confession??? This young woman needs God’s grace. She doesn’t need people standing in her way of it.

 

[Kevin812]

(slightly off topic observation)

Dear Op;

You might not be aware of this but something unique has happened in this thread. Many regular posters who I might routinely disagree with or a couple I almost always disagree with, have reached a uniform consensus. By CAF standards this is a rarity.

Please take the advice or leave it, that is up to you, but I would ask for you to put yourself in the girl’s place. If that is not possible, then think upon our Holy Mother, pregnant before the final marriage bans.

 

[Marchmain1987]

I find this whole thread extremely ironic.

I have never heard so many people uncharitably tell someone else to be charitable in one place before.

So many people have responded to the OP calling him a “a bully” and “wicked,” and telling him he is damaging children and all sorts of other things.

–Jen

I would disagree.

I did use the term wicked – in relation to the OP writing a Bishop over a liturgical abuse (which is not a liturgical abuse). The action itself is wicked, not the person - only God knows that. Why? Such an action is scandalous and uncharitable to the girl in question and the parish priest (whom, as you point out, most likely informed the Bishop’s Office of the situation).

The OP also takes a stab at the Second Vatican Council in their response. Hence, they must have bloated sense of their own importance if they think this has anything to do with the cultural milieu at the time of the Council till now. Either that or they are just ignorant – and no one has touched on the blanket view the OP writies of the Hispanic Community in his parish. Its language is a vague stereotype which borders on overt racism.

We are allowed to judge actions and words – not people’s salvation – which Confirmation plays a part by filling the person with the Holy Spirit and bringing them into fuller union with the Body of Christ. The OP is trying to control/dictate the reception of a sacrament in relation to the girl in question.

It is not his place in the Church to decide such things.

 

[asia53]

OP,
Please this is none of your business. Leave the poor girl alone. Please treat her with kindness.

Which is exactly the poster’s point - in 1935 the pregnant teen was NOT excluded, ostracised, shunned, nor gossiped about behind her back to a bishop for being pregnant.

She was instead treated the exact opposite of how you want to treat this poor girl. In 1935 the expectant mother was welcomed heartily, and confirmed alongside all her fellows.

Things have indeed deteriorated since 1935 when you obviously cannot bring yourself to show the same compassion, common decency and charity that was given to this woman back then.

Nope, this wouldn’t have happened. In 1935, well into the 1980’s, pregnant girls were not allowed to continue their education, or function in “normal society”.

If she didn’t have a “back alley” abortion, be sent to a relative in another town or state, or go to an Unwed Mothers facility (ultimate goal here: baby would be adopted), she would have been ostracized by polite society.

While in high school in the 1960’s, I know of 3 classmates who became pregnant. Two quickly married, even then, they had to drop out of school. The thought being: they’d be a bad influence on the rest of us. The third went to an Unwed Mothers home in Denver, Florence Crittenton Home.

From the Florence Crittenton Home history page:

The Florence Crittenton School actually started as a home for unwed mothers called the Florence Crittenton Home. By 1981, the community no longer had a need for a home where unwed pregnant women lived, secluded from society, until they gave birth and put their babies up for adoption.