Pregnant Girlfriend - What to do?

[otjm]

I think the first thing you should do is have a paternity test. After reading your description of her behavior, I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that what she really wants from you is citizenship.

Threatening abortion to force your hand is despicable.

Having serial sexual relations with a younger woman outside of marriage with no intent to marry her is not despicable? Who was older? Who wasn’t man enough to accept responsibility for his actions? Who wants to blame the woman?

After reading his description, he crawled in bed with her.

Repeatedly.

Talking about abortion because she is backed into a corner is not a threat; it is a cry for help.

Who gets off scott free in this? He waltzes back to the US with no legal liabilities; she didn’t get him pregnant; he got her pregnant, and now she has to go back to the family in South America carrying his child, no support, no husband, “damaged goods” - it is no wonder that in the panic of dealing with this result, that abortion looks like it answers all the questions. She is speaking emotionally, not rationally (there are some women who will abort “rationally”; most abortions are by women abandoned by the father and in a complete panic).

And of course, with his promises of “being a good father” from the US while she is in South America, likely never to see him again, well, folks, I am sure those promises will assuage her fears of abandonment.

He is man enough to crawl in bed with her - repeatedly. He is 25; time enough to know what causes babies. He is older than her.

Who is the more responsible party? Listening to the whine, apparently she is…

Oh, but she (maybe) wanted citizenship. OK, so let’s say that was her sole reason for serial intercourse.

And now, we sacrifice another child’s life to the abortionist’s scalpel, for why? Because he was so dumb that she lead him around by the nose, repeatedly had intercourse with him and he should have a paternity test - and what - walk away?

And so, a baby faces the abortionist’s scalpel.

Wow. A paternity test. Yeah, let’s all blame the woman; he is just a dumb, stupid, totally lacking in any responsibility for his choices sperm donor.

Wow. Just, wow. “Oh, oh, I am only 25 and not ready to be married and I don’t know if I love her (but I sure loved sex with her!) and I don’t have a job and I haven’t told my mommy and daddy…”

But of course - it is the woman’s responsibility. Men have been saying that ever since the pill hit the market.

Just, wow.

 

[Estevao]

I wonder if the feminists who post here ever feel any guilt for how the ideology they subscribe to creates legal situations like the OP’s where the woman has 100% control over murdering an innocent human being, but OP has absolutely no control whatsoever about his child.

There’s all this talk about how OP couldn’t keep it in his pants (despite how the woman apparently pressured him into sex, but of course we know that Catholic girls would never, ever do such a thing, especially those from culturally Catholic countries in South America, so OP must be lying here), but where is the talk about how the ideology of feminism has killed about the same order of magnitude of people as Nazism or Communism, and now has created this potential murder?

If you want some advice OP you need to bring this woman to the USA and away from a banana republic country like Brazil or Peru or whatever. Get a trades job but continue to work on your education so you can eventually make more money to care for this child. Do everything you can to make sure this baby survives and has support, unlike feminists who would rather give this woman the “choice” to murder an innocent, defenseless human being

 

[Groo]

Having serial sexual relations with a younger woman outside of marriage with no intent to marry her is not despicable? Who was older? Who wasn’t man enough to accept responsibility for his actions? Who wants to blame the woman?

After reading his description, he crawled in bed with her.

Repeatedly.

Talking about abortion because she is backed into a corner is not a threat; it is a cry for help.

Who gets off scott free in this? He waltzes back to the US with no legal liabilities; she didn’t get him pregnant; he got her pregnant, and now she has to go back to the family in South America carrying his child, no support, no husband, “damaged goods” - it is no wonder that in the panic of dealing with this result, that abortion looks like it answers all the questions. She is speaking emotionally, not rationally (there are some women who will abort “rationally”; most abortions are by women abandoned by the father and in a complete panic).

And of course, with his promises of “being a good father” from the US while she is in South America, likely never to see him again, well, folks, I am sure those promises will assuage her fears of abandonment.

He is man enough to crawl in bed with her - repeatedly. He is 25; time enough to know what causes babies. He is older than her.

Who is the more responsible party? Listening to the whine, apparently she is…

Oh, but she (maybe) wanted citizenship. OK, so let’s say that was her sole reason for serial intercourse.

And now, we sacrifice another child’s life to the abortionist’s scalpel, for why? Because he was so dumb that she lead him around by the nose, repeatedly had intercourse with him and he should have a paternity test - and what - walk away?

And so, a baby faces the abortionist’s scalpel.

Wow. A paternity test. Yeah, let’s all blame the woman; he is just a dumb, stupid, totally lacking in any responsibility for his choices sperm donor.

Wow. Just, wow. “Oh, oh, I am only 25 and not ready to be married and I don’t know if I love her (but I sure loved sex with her!) and I don’t have a job and I haven’t told my mommy and daddy…”

But of course - it is the woman’s responsibility. Men have been saying that ever since the pill hit the market.

Just, wow.

It takes 2 to tango.

Replies like this discourage people from seeking help on these boards, and I think that is a shame. I did not read any constructive advice in this post - only a series of attacks on the OP’s morals, intelligence, and gender.

If you would like to discuss the pill, abortion, and men, I would suggest starting a new thread.

 

[Phaedra777]

I stand by my advice to get a paternity test. I’m “just wowed” that anyone would think it’s not a reasonable request. In my lifetime, I’ve known several women who sabotaged birth control in order to get pregnant, several who were sleeping with several men, got pregnant and told the best catch it was his. I also knew one woman who lied about being pregnant in order to force a guy into marriage.

The OP has so many concerns about this woman that determining if she is pregnant, and if it’s his is a wise first step.

 

[Miserissima]

My favorite part of the OP is:

“9 months ago, we moved in together. At the time, I was afraid that I would lose her if I didn’t give in, so I went along with it against my best judgment.”

Suuure.

So what are the viable options now?

Marriage and abortion are off the table, so how will the OP provide for the child?

I’m going to entrust this situation to St. Augustine; I’m at a loss.

 

[bitterhope]

My favorite part of the OP is:

“9 months ago, we moved in together. At the time, I was afraid that I would lose her if I didn’t give in, so I went along with it against my best judgment.”

Suuure.

So what are the viable options now?

Marriage and abortion are off the table, so how will the OP provide for the child?

I’m going to entrust this situation to St. Augustine; I’m at a loss.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty good myself. For people in their mid 20’s and college educated…

I married at 18. My husband was 21. We were not college educated and certainly didn’t come from families that had the resources to send us to Europe for a year. I can’t see how anyone can buy that the girl bullied the boy into anything, and I wouldn’t believe that a boy bullied the girl either. These two are both ADULTS and they both knew very well what they were doing. They decided to play house and now he wants to quit the game but can’t so he is making her out to look like a bad person.

 

[Miserissima]

So what are some practical (and ethical) remedies for toys? That’s where I’m stuck.

One of my first calls would be to the Embassy to delineate my responsibilities and legal rights.

 

[EMFrost]

It takes 2 to tango.

Replies like this discourage people from seeking help on these boards, and I think that is a shame. I did not read any constructive advice in this post - only a series of attacks on the OP’s morals, intelligence, and gender.

If you would like to discuss the pill, abortion, and men, I would suggest starting a new thread.

otjm’s responses are the best ones yet for the sake of the OP. The fact of the matter is his child is at high risk for abortion and as the father he needs to not just speak up but step up.
The OP made it clear he wants to man up and do the right thing. Well, otjm was pretty dead on in what manning up requires of him. Action.
OP, have you asked your family for help in getting that plane ticket? You need to get to this girl’s side ASAP for both her and the baby’s sake. And if marriage is best- don’t just talk about it- make it official.

 

[bitterhope]

So what are some practical (and ethical) remedies for toys? That’s where I’m stuck.

One of my first calls would be to the Embassy to delineate my responsibilities and legal rights.

Yes, I think that the embassy is a good start. He may find he has no parental rights or responsibilities at this point. It’s going to be very difficult to bring her to the US without marrying her. His best bet if he plans on being an involved father at all is to move to her country. It really depends on him–what he decides he wants to do at this point. Personally I think he should move to her country and pick back up where they left off Europe. Marry her instead if just using her as a place to live so he wouldn’t be alone. It was wrong if him to do that and it is wrong to make her out as the one that pushed the whole thing to the point that he couldn’t say no. He was way past the age of consent. He knew what he was doing. He used her but now he’s feeling trapped by his own actions so he tried to make it all her fault. If he doesn’t want to marry her then he needs to cut ties with her, quit leading her on that they will be together to raise the baby, and accept that that means he may never get to know his child at all–ever.

This is why people need to be willing to accept the consequences of their actions before they make decisions. If the consequences are too difficult then you shouldn’t be doing what creates them. It’s not just sex, it’s school decisions, job decisions, financial decisions. Everyday people act recklessly, get in a bind, and try to place the majority of blame on someone else’s shoulders instead of their own. It’s easy to make the lady into a monster on a Catholic website by just mentioning that she is considering abortion. We don’t know if she is or not, but honestly I can understand thinking about having one. And I am 100% prolife, but I can see how it would be tempting to do so. She is the one pregnant on her own and he is free to return home to mom and dad with no consequences. They both played house, but he gets to pack up and return home with no harm. Why wouldn’t she think about an abortion? That levels the playing field. Immorality breeds immorality. Where does the cycle end? Who is going to chose to do the right thing and place the baby first? Adoption most likely isn’t going to happen, but it shouldn’t need to. These are adults, not kids. They are educated at the university level. They should be more than ready to settle down and have a family. If they aren’t then they need to grow up and do it for their baby.

 

[otjm]

It takes 2 to tango.

Replies like this discourage people from seeking help on these boards, and I think that is a shame. I did not read any constructive advice in this post - only a series of attacks on the OP’s morals, intelligence, and gender.

If you would like to discuss the pill, abortion, and men, I would suggest starting a new thread.

Replies like this are intended to clear the fog between the ears; it is called a Dutch Uncle talk. The OP is 25 and doesn’t have the maturity I have seen in 18 year olds. He has created a child which is at risk of being murdered, and he whines.

At the age of 25 I would expect that he is in grad school. If he is old enough for that, he is old enough to keep his pants zipped, and if he can’t do that then he needs to man up and make sure this child isn’t sliced up by some abortionist.

Some of the posters seem to think that a marriage and a possible divorce are not the best of situations. I don’t either; but if I impregnated a woman, I would have enough intelligence to know that the only way I might prevent an abortion of my child was in marrying the mother. And if he is in grad school, then he has enough intelligence to figure that out too.

He danced; it is time he pay the piper, particularly considering the possible results if he doesn’t. He alone cannot make a good marriage, but it is past time he make the effort.

I stand by every word I wrote. He got her pregnant, and then he walked away. He needs a royally good dressing down and that is what I gave. No advice? Oh, I think to the contrary. I challenged him to think - actually think - about what he was saying. He is in la la land if he thinks living here, with her there, that he is going to be the best parent he can be. Get serious! What does that amount to - sending $50 a month to South America?

And if she aborts? Is he going to accept any responsibility for that child’s murder? Or is he going to continue down the path of “I really didn’t want to do it - she did it - she talked me into it.”

One of the posters implied she was trying to get citizenship. So what? We risk the child?

Yes, you may be right - he may walk away after what I wrote; that would not be inconsistent with how he has taken responsibility for his choices. But maybe, just maybe, if someone actually calls him out, he will get the message. He has done more than enough hand wringing and avoiding dealing with his choices. It is time to man up.

 

[bitterhope]

Replies like this are intended to clear the fog between the ears; it is called a Dutch Uncle talk. The OP is 25 and doesn’t have the maturity I have seen in 18 year olds. He has created a child which is at risk of being murdered, and he whines.

At the age of 25 I would expect that he is in grad school. If he is old enough for that, he is old enough to keep his pants zipped, and if he can’t do that then he needs to man up and make sure this child isn’t sliced up by some abortionist.

Some of the posters seem to think that a marriage and a possible divorce are not the best of situations. I don’t either; but if I impregnated a woman, I would have enough intelligence to know that the only way I might prevent an abortion of my child was in marrying the mother. And if he is in grad school, then he has enough intelligence to figure that out too.

He danced; it is time he pay the piper, particularly considering the possible results if he doesn’t. He alone cannot make a good marriage, but it is past time he make the effort.

I stand by every word I wrote. He got her pregnant, and then he walked away. He needs a royally good dressing down and that is what I gave. No advice? Oh, I think to the contrary. I challenged him to think - actually think - about what he was saying. He is in la la land if he thinks living here, with her there, that he is going to be the best parent he can be. Get serious! What does that amount to - sending $50 a month to South America?

And if she aborts? Is he going to accept any responsibility for that child’s murder? Or is he going to continue down the path of “I really didn’t want to do it - she did it - she talked me into it.”

One of the posters implied she was trying to get citizenship. So what? We risk the child?

Yes, you may be right - he may walk away after what I wrote; that would not be inconsistent with how he has taken responsibility for his choices. But maybe, just maybe, if someone actually calls him out, he will get the message. He has done more than enough hand wringing and avoiding dealing with his choices. It is time to man up.

You are exactly right.

 

[Cackles]

No, you are not obligated to stay with her. You are obligated to be a father and provide support for your child

The Satan inspired, Feminist, Secular Humanism is simply off the charts. It’s simply incredible. I sometimes feel this is Yahoo answers or something.

Like… wow… I just can’t believe that above statement. This sub-forum is void of religion and faith. like… WOW

 

[otjm]

God bless you for being so passionately pro-life! Clearly you are very concerned about the unborn in general and especially the baby in this situation.

Unfortunately as a Catholic, one cannot just quickly “get married” like that. What I mean by that is any priest worth a darn would REFUSE to marry this couple so the original poster may not even have the option of marriage. Catholic marriage is a covenant, and as such you can’t just walk in and get married. Priests are instructed to counsel couples and to “weed out” people who they suspect may have been coerced and to counsel them further. Pregnancy is a red flag too, I know priests who won’t marry couples until after the baby is born and the couple has established a solid relationship.

I think the reason that some people are advising him not to seek marriage is just that reason. Many of us here have been through marriage and also the annulment process so we know it all well. I think it is because his situation seems to scream “invalid marriage” so people are advising him to wait as he will be turned away anyway. It is not because people don’t care about the baby.

It is sad really, because if the mother is holding it over his head it would seem he should take some sort of action as a father! However he must do it through gentle prayer and love as that seems his best option at this point. God bless.

To the original poster: God bless you and thank you for sharing. You have a lot to sort out, but you have been to confession that is wonderful. Jesus knows your fears and anxieties about the future. He will help you through this. I will pray for you, please take care and keep us posted if you can.

Fine - they go to a justice of the peace.

Have you ever seen an abortion?

Have you ever held a three pound, seven ounce baby in your arms and wondered if they would make it? Or twins, 3/7 and 3/9, and wondered if you had given birth to two, and which one might not make it? Have you ever seen a 2 pound baby struggling to make it while your twins were doing the same?

The twins were (are) mine. So, yeah, I am a bit pro life. And yes, they made it and so did the 2 lb. baby who was born before them.

I am also a whale of a lot pro take responsibility for your choices. Loyalty is one of my highest values (something that took a long time and a really unpleasant experience to understand).

You are right - he might have to go to a Justice of the Peace to get married, or a Lutheran minister.

I am fully aware that this would not be the best start of a marriage; and my answer is, okie dokie, you all stand there and argue the morality of what direction he might take, and you had better be standing there if and when she aborts. Because you need to take responsibility for the advice you all give while the abortionist picks up their scalpel and goes to work. The OP couldn’t keep it zipped and then had the temerity to whine that she “coerced” him. Once? Maybe, maybe not. Serial sexual activity? He was in whole hog and loving it.

And then she gets pregnant and he goes running home to mommy and daddy. That is called abandonment. And he not only walks away from any responsibility, but he does so having impregnated a woman from a country with a far different sense of honor - personal and family- than the US.

I don’t need a lecture on two wrongs don’t make a right. He needs to do whatever he needs to do to make sure this baby is born, by whatever means he can find. If that means getting married outside the Church, then so be it. It is not like he has been a faithful, God-fearing, Saturday reconciliation and Sunday Mass Catholic so far. And in the meanwhile…?

We are long past the time for talking about the niceties of sacramental marriage and moral rights. That was out the window when he crawled in bed with her.

I have no patience with anyone who wants to stand around and dither. He put himself in this position; he certainly put her in this position, and he has put his child in this position. Assuming that it is not already too late, he needs to get himself down there now, and sort out how he is going to take responsibility for conceiving this child. All of that assumes she has not already aborted; and that she would even speak with him (and considering he walked off, that is a possibility).

And as far as marriage, given she is pregnant, she may not exactly be in an amorous mood; he can learn that marriage is not about bouncing around in bed. Once the baby is born, they can start to sort out what being grown up is all about, and what being Catholic is all about, and what marriage is really all about.

Which is about giving, not taking.

 

[Groo]

Replies like this are intended to clear the fog between the ears; it is called a Dutch Uncle talk. The OP is 25 and doesn’t have the maturity I have seen in 18 year olds. He has created a child which is at risk of being murdered, and he whines.

At the age of 25 I would expect that he is in grad school. If he is old enough for that, he is old enough to keep his pants zipped, and if he can’t do that then he needs to man up and make sure this child isn’t sliced up by some abortionist.

Some of the posters seem to think that a marriage and a possible divorce are not the best of situations. I don’t either; but if I impregnated a woman, I would have enough intelligence to know that the only way I might prevent an abortion of my child was in marrying the mother. And if he is in grad school, then he has enough intelligence to figure that out too.

He danced; it is time he pay the piper, particularly considering the possible results if he doesn’t. He alone cannot make a good marriage, but it is past time he make the effort.

I stand by every word I wrote. He got her pregnant, and then he walked away. He needs a royally good dressing down and that is what I gave. No advice? Oh, I think to the contrary. I challenged him to think - actually think - about what he was saying. He is in la la land if he thinks living here, with her there, that he is going to be the best parent he can be. Get serious! What does that amount to - sending $50 a month to South America?

And if she aborts? Is he going to accept any responsibility for that child’s murder? Or is he going to continue down the path of “I really didn’t want to do it - she did it - she talked me into it.”

One of the posters implied she was trying to get citizenship. So what? We risk the child?

Yes, you may be right - he may walk away after what I wrote; that would not be inconsistent with how he has taken responsibility for his choices. But maybe, just maybe, if someone actually calls him out, he will get the message. He has done more than enough hand wringing and avoiding dealing with his choices. It is time to man up.

For all of his mistakes, at least the OP came to this forum to seek help. That is more than many men would do. Maybe he has no one else to turn to. Yes, he made some mistakes; and some big ones at that. But he seems to be making some kind of effort to make it right. It may not be much; and it may not be effective; but he is trying at some level.

If I were the OP reading your post, what I would hear is that I am a stupid piece of ****. I would hear judgment and condemnation. I know that is not what you intend to convey, but that is how it reads. And the fact that this is on a public message board only makes it worse.

I have personally seen your Dutch Uncle type talks drive people out of the Church for decades. It’s not what you say, but how you say it. And while you bring up some good points, and I appreciate your pro-life perspective, I don’t think a public dressing down is going to help anyone - least of all the unborn child who only the OP can help.

 

[tafan]

Pregnancy is a red flag too, I know priests who won’t marry couples until after the baby is born and the couple has established a solid relationship.

I.

Yes this is the case, it is becoming almost the norm, and those priests are wrong, dead wrong IMO. Not that they don’t have a responsibility to make sure the couple knows what marriage is and are committed to making it work, but to categorically refuse to perform marriages in a pregnancy situation is wrong. People, even under the stress of a out of wedlock pregnancy, can still make a valid choice to be married.

I was in this situation many, many years ago and am dang glad we had a priest who head our confessions, interviewed us quite intensely on two different occasions, and then was willing to marry us on short notice. Any other solution would not have worked out. My wife would have been forced to go back to her family in another state and we would have never been married and never had a wonderful marriage with lots of little kids. We knew what we were doing, and this priest understood the situation.

When I hear about what the Church places these couples through these days in making them wait, without other option, I just shudder and count my blessings that things were a little more reasonable 30 years ago.

 

[otjm]

For all of his mistakes, at least the OP came to this forum to seek help. That is more than many men would do. Maybe he has no one else to turn to. Yes, he made some mistakes; and some big ones at that. But he seems to be making some kind of effort to make it right. It may not be much; and it may not be effective; but he is trying at some level.

We agree.

If I were the OP reading your post, what I would hear is that I am a stupid piece of ****. I would hear judgment and condemnation. I know that is not what you intend to convey, but that is how it reads. And the fact that this is on a public message board only makes it worse.

Stupid? No, he is a 25 year old grad student who is displaying a blame-game attitude for choices he made which have resulted in the conception of a life - a child who did not ask to be conceived, and has not asked to be potentially aborted.

I have personally seen your Dutch Uncle type talks drive people out of the Church for decades. It’s not what you say, but how you say it. And while you bring up some good points, and I appreciate your pro-life perspective, I don’t think a public dressing down is going to help anyone - least of all the unborn child who only the OP can help.

I have personally used this approach on more than several occasions, and had the men come back and thank me. More than one has said that I was the first person to speak with straight honesty, no bull, direct and to the point. Those who commented have all said that no one else had ever spoken as honestly and directly.

It is not a way that I speak to most people, and certainly is not a way I would address a woman. Without side-tracking this whole conversation, I would refer to the concept that men and women are from different planets. Man to man, the communication is different than it is woman to man, or woman to woman. I am trying what I know has worked. I do the best I can, then the rest is God’s problem.

One of the deeper, if not one of the deepest wounds a man can give a woman is to impregnate her and then walk away. And he has done that to someone from a culture that values honor differently than that of the US.

None of us are even sure the baby is still alive. And none of us can even guess, if he were to go down there, whether she would even see home, or for that matter, if her family would even let him near her. This may all be beyond any possible repair. Go back and read his first post - he moved in with her (Riiight!) and then she coerced him into sleeping with her? Serially for months? This smacks of a guy who is blaming, not one who is taking responsibility. And for all the guys I have dealt with, the ones who are playing the blame game are the ones most in need of plain, straight talk, talk that won’t accept the bs.

There are some posters who feel I am over the top and offensive; and others who think I am right on. I don’t write for either side, but for the OP. The number one comment I have heard from women who have aborted is that they were abandoned, physically, or emotionally, after they were impregnated. Patience I don’t have.

 

[otjm]

God bless you and again, thank you for sharing your thoughts!

With all Christian Charity, I wonder if it is useful to give examples of HOW pro-life we are because of our experiences. Thank you for sharing yours, I would prefer not to share mine here but suffice it to say that yes, my life has been very personally impacted by abortion and yes, I am pro-life but I don’t think I need to answer your question “Have you ever seen an abortion” to prove I am prolife (not sure if you wanted an answer or not kind of wondering.) I would rather just say I am prolife and leave it at that thank you for understanding.

Your passion is admirable as is your expectation that young men behave responsibly.

As for going to a justice of the peace…well…look, this couple strayed from God’s teaching which is what caused all this havoc in the first place. I don’t know that rushing to get married deliberately outside of the church when you don’t love someone would be Christ’s answer, because it is rooted in dishonesty. I think we can’t discount that this relationship goes back for over a year and they know one another quite well. Remember he can’t just marry her, she has to marry him as well and I don’t know if she would go along with it. Most brides want a wedding with family and loved ones there and don’t want to rush off to a judge (even pregnant ones) so expecting him to just marry her may really not be an option.

For now she is having the baby and that is something to celebrate. I don’t think we will agree on an approach here, your passion and what seems like a bit of anger towards the original poster is probably going to stay. Thank you for letting me share my thoughts, let us hope he found something useful somewhere between all of this advice being thrown his way. God bless.

Sorry - the question was rhetorical, and not directed at your personal life; I should have made that clear.

 

[Groo]

We agree.

Stupid? No, he is a 25 year old grad student who is displaying a blame-game attitude for choices he made which have resulted in the conception of a life - a child who did not ask to be conceived, and has not asked to be potentially aborted.

I have personally used this approach on more than several occasions, and had the men come back and thank me. More than one has said that I was the first person to speak with straight honesty, no bull, direct and to the point. Those who commented have all said that no one else had ever spoken as honestly and directly.

It is not a way that I speak to most people, and certainly is not a way I would address a woman. Without side-tracking this whole conversation, I would refer to the concept that men and women are from different planets. Man to man, the communication is different than it is woman to man, or woman to woman. I am trying what I know has worked. I do the best I can, then the rest is God’s problem.

One of the deeper, if not one of the deepest wounds a man can give a woman is to impregnate her and then walk away. And he has done that to someone from a culture that values honor differently than that of the US.

None of us are even sure the baby is still alive. And none of us can even guess, if he were to go down there, whether she would even see home, or for that matter, if her family would even let him near her. This may all be beyond any possible repair. Go back and read his first post - he moved in with her (Riiight!) and then she coerced him into sleeping with her? Serially for months? This smacks of a guy who is blaming, not one who is taking responsibility. And for all the guys I have dealt with, the ones who are playing the blame game are the ones most in need of plain, straight talk, talk that won’t accept the bs.

There are some posters who feel I am over the top and offensive; and others who think I am right on. I don’t write for either side, but for the OP. The number one comment I have heard from women who have aborted is that they were abandoned, physically, or emotionally, after they were impregnated. Patience I don’t have.

I reread the original post, and I have personal experience with women who pushed me into a physical relationship faster than I wanted. So I don’t get the impression the poster is spouting bs. I see him as lost and confused and having little support. Most guys I know wouldn’t allow themselves to be vulnerable by asking for help and posting a lot of detailed information like that. Most would keep it to themselves and just hope the problem goes away.

Men need support just as much as women, and I think men should be encouraged to reach out when they need help. When men don’t seek help, the results are often catastrophic.

As for the direct communication style, my experience is that this has caused more harm than good in the Church. It makes me sad to see ex-catholics who left not because of some disagreement with dogma, but because they were treated uncharitably.

For women who aborted and claimed abandonment, isn’t that an assignment of blame also? Should we tell them that they should have just kept their legs shut?

 

[otjm]

I reread the original post, and I have personal experience with women who pushed me into a physical relationship faster than I wanted. So I don’t get the impression the poster is spouting bs. I see him as lost and confused and having little support. Most guys I know wouldn’t allow themselves to be vulnerable by asking for help and posting a lot of detailed information like that. Most would keep it to themselves and just hope the problem goes away.

Men need support just as much as women, and I think men should be encouraged to reach out when they need help. When men don’t seek help, the results are often catastrophic.

As for the direct communication style, my experience is that this has caused more harm than good in the Church. It makes me sad to see ex-catholics who left not because of some disagreement with dogma, but because they were treated uncharitably.

For women who aborted and claimed abandonment, isn’t that an assignment of blame also? Should we tell them that they should have just kept their legs shut?

Unless and until the OP is willing to accept, personally and interiorly, the fact that at each stage of the relationship, that he made a decision, and accept responsibility for that decision, he is going to continue to bounce along through life, making decisions and blaming someone else for the results.

No woman has ever pushed me into a decision - for physical intimacy or anything else. And that is not to say that I have never been pressured; but whenever I did something, it was because I made a decision. I have made wrong decision. I was the one who made them. Whether or not there was someone else involved in the decision is irrelevant - I made a decision, for which I am responsible. And I submit that however much emotional or physical “pressure” any woman made on you, you made a decision.

Yes, people leave the Church; and that is a decision. No one forced them out. Someone may have been rude; abrupt; short tempered; lacking in attention, unkind, downright nasty. And the individual who left made a decision. And having known a few people who went through that scenario, they always pointed their fingers at the priest. It was always, someone else’s fault. Interestingly, they tended to live their life that way, bouncing from pillar to post, and always, it was someone else’s fault.

Sorry, I believe in personal responsibility for the decisions people make.

And I won’t dignify your last question with an answer.

 

[otjm]

God bless you and again, thank you for sharing your thoughts!

With all Christian Charity, I wonder if it is useful to give examples of HOW pro-life we are because of our experiences. Thank you for sharing yours, I would prefer not to share mine here but suffice it to say that yes, my life has been very personally impacted by abortion and yes, I am pro-life but I don’t think I need to answer your question “Have you ever seen an abortion” to prove I am prolife (not sure if you wanted an answer or not kind of wondering.) I would rather just say I am prolife and leave it at that thank you for understanding.

Your passion is admirable as is your expectation that young men behave responsibly.

As for going to a justice of the peace…well…look, this couple strayed from God’s teaching which is what caused all this havoc in the first place. I don’t know that rushing to get married deliberately outside of the church when you don’t love someone would be Christ’s answer, because it is rooted in dishonesty. I think we can’t discount that this relationship goes back for over a year and they know one another quite well. Remember he can’t just marry her, she has to marry him as well and I don’t know if she would go along with it. Most brides want a wedding with family and loved ones there and don’t want to rush off to a judge (even pregnant ones) so expecting him to just marry her may really not be an option.

For now she is having the baby and that is something to celebrate. I don’t think we will agree on an approach here, your passion and what seems like a bit of anger towards the original poster is probably going to stay. Thank you for letting me share my thoughts, let us hope he found something useful somewhere between all of this advice being thrown his way. God bless.

I understand what you are saying about marriage. My answer is that these two may or may not be “in love” . St Paul, however, tells us that love is a choice, and it is a choice for the other. It is self giving. It is sacrifice; something that has fallen from popular support. I am well aware of the risks the OP would take if he married her. I am considering the risks if he doesn’t - and again, it may be too late as she may already have aborted; or he may never be able to mend the relationship to the point of being able to marry her.

Unless I missed a post, I don’t think we know what she is doing. If I missed it, let me know. Thanks!