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catholicrocks
Guest
They sure can, but then they need not act surprised or upset if she chooses not to be there.
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Truly_Beloved
Guest
I soo do not want to seem like I’m picking on you, Emily, since you’re not the only one who thinks I’m shunning my family, but how in the world is what I’m doing shunning? The only thing I won’t do is visit them in their homes, for goodness sakes! It’s not like I never have them over at my house, or never go out to eat with them, or never hang out with them, or never talk on the phone with them. Goodness gracious, the last thing I thought I was doing was shunning.
Okay, sorry to rant like that, but maybe I don’t know what the word “shunning” really means or something.
I get the feeling that people think I cease all contact with anyone who premaritally cohabits, and I want to assure everyone that this is NOT the case.Sorry for not making this clear in my original post, but my parents did, in fact, teach us this. It seems that now, since 2 out of their 3 children have decided to premaritally cohabit, they don’t want to say anything. It’s frustrating to me that my parents are remaining quiet, while telling me, “Well, you know, they just have to make their own mistakes, so we aren’t going to say anything.”
I have always gently explained my position to them, but only when directly asked. I do not preach at all using words unless they ask me to. My siblings have told me that they respect my opinions, and look to me for moral guidance, even if they don’t always choose to listen. My sister said she was sad that she has disappointed me, but that I just had to get over it, since obviously our folks had.How do you bring these people to a better understanding of the faith? First, by showing them love. Spend time with them, be kind to them… treat them with respect. And when the timing is right state your beliefs… “You know, I have a really hard time seeing you guys live together before you get married”… explain why!
If you don’t share your thoughts for WHY you believe these things they’ll look at you like you’re self-righteous and better than they are!
TEACH THEM… if you have their respect, they’ll listen!
Just trying to further explain the situation, sorry if I’m getting too wound up, here.
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marybee
Guest
I don’t speak for anyone but myself but I think they are trying to say that if YOU were the sinner in the situation, would you listen to someone who treats you like a leper by not “stepping foot” in their home. Or would you listen and be respectful of a person who treats you like an equal?
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Truly_Beloved
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This is a very real fear of mine, which is why I’m going to talk to my priest as soon as I can. On the other hand, I don’t want to be a bad example of the faith… I can just see them converting one day and saying to me, “You know, you shouldn’t have watered anything down just because you thought it was helpful in the short term.”
I don’t want them to resent the Church at all; that scares me the most. I can deal with them not liking me more than I can cope with them not liking the faith.
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Em_in_FL
Guest
No worries!I soo do not want to seem like I’m picking on you, Emily, since you’re not the only one who thinks I’m shunning my family, but how in the world is what I’m doing shunning? The only thing I won’t do is visit them in their homes, for goodness sakes! It’s not like I never have them over at my house, or never go out to eat with them, or never hang out with them, or never talk on the phone with them. Goodness gracious, the last thing I thought I was doing was shunning.
Okay, sorry to rant like that, but maybe I don’t know what the word “shunning” really means or something.
Sorry for not making this clear in my original post, but my parents did, in fact, teach us this. It seems that now, since 2 out of their 3 children have decided to premaritally cohabit, they don’t want to say anything. It’s frustrating to me that my parents are remaining quiet, while telling me, “Well, you know, they just have to make their own mistakes, so we aren’t going to say anything.”
I have always gently explained my position to them, but only when directly asked. I do not preach at all using words unless they ask me to. My siblings have told me that they respect my opinions, and look to me for moral guidance, even if they don’t always choose to listen. My sister said she was sad that she has disappointed me, but that I just had to get over it, since obviously our folks had.
Just trying to further explain the situation, sorry if I’m getting too wound up, here.
Thanks for the explanations… it makes a lot more sense now!
I apologize if I interpreted something that wasn’t there!
Anyway, my point is… I’ve met some people… who in their attempts at “sharing the faith” they can be a little harsh and actually turn people AWAY from the faith. And I know that’s not what you’re trying to do!
But we always need to look at situations from the eyes of the listeners… walk a mile in their moccasins, as it were.
(There’s a lot to be said for that phrase!)There’s a fine line between “preaching” (in the negative sense of the word) and “evangelizing”…
The basis of LOVE is really so so important for evangelization to take place.
You know your family and friends better than we do… I’m sure you can observe whether or not they’re feeling “preached at”. The truth is “preaching” doesn’t work… it tends to turn people away from the faith.
As long as you keep that in mind then you’ll be handling it correctly, I’m sure!
Good luck… I know it’s a tough situation to get across in a post. We’ve had similar experiences too… and it’s a fine line which is tough follow… I sympathize…
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catholicrocks
Guest
I agree with you on this too. It’s hard b/c you don’t want to give in and water it down, and I absolutely would not, but you also want to be charitable (something I’m not very good at most of the time and have to work on) and continue to actually have a relationship with these family members.This is a very real fear of mine, which is why I’m going to talk to my priest as soon as I can. On the other hand, I don’t want to be a bad example of the faith… I can just see them converting one day and saying to me, “You know, you shouldn’t have watered anything down just because you thought it was helpful in the short term.”
Your previous clarification about the time you DO spend with these family members and your frustration with your parents for going soft is good to know too (as far as the rest of us being able to give you feedback on your situation). I also think it speaks volumes that you said that your sister said it makes her sad that she has disappointed you, but that your parents have dealt with it. That seems to me that somewhere deep down she knows it’s not right too.
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Truly_Beloved
Guest
Thank you, Miserissima… Those are quite extensive, so I’ll have to spend some time later to really go through them (I currently have a toddler distracting me).
I would hope and pray that anyone who loved me would love me enough to be honest with me and be concerned for the state of my soul. If the only change in their behavior was a refusal to come over to my house (i.e., they still ended phone conversations with, “Love ya!”, still hugged me when we got together, still invited me and my partner-in-crime to their home, etc.), then yes, I would still feel loved and respect the other person. If I did something wrong, and later found out that someone KNEW it was wrong and didn’t tell me, then I’d be really upset at that point.
Yes, this has happened to me, where I got myself in a really bad situation, and all but one person (not even a family member) said anything until years later, after the damage had already been done. You can bet I respected that one person more, and everyone else less. That one person cared enough to speak up for my sake.
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Truly_Beloved
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Thank you so much, Emily. :hug1:Good luck… I know it’s a tough situation to get across in a post. We’ve had similar experiences too… and it’s a fine line which is tough follow… I sympathize…
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Truly_Beloved
Guest
That’s my hope, that deep down she knows, and will one day forgive me for making her sad (something I certainly didn’t intend to do, but it still happened).
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
My daughter lived with her boyfriend before they were married. She never received Confirmation at this point in her life. We never forced her to, despite the fact that I had taught Confirmation classes for 12 years.
They invited us to their apartment for a dinner one evening and we accepted. They knew that we believed in the Sacrament of marriage and the importance and they knew we would prefer they were married, but we never were judgmental or rigid in our position.
To make a long story short, they broke up for a short period of time, to reflect on things. My daughter, came back to the Church and received Confirmation. Her ex, converted to the Church and both were eventually married. They gave my wife and myself, two wonderful grandchildren!
The point is, compassion goes a lot further than rigid instruction of Catholic doctrine.
If you truly live what you believe, and have Christ in your heart, they will notice and will more often than not, desire what you have in their own life.
Be patient, but consistent. Be firm, but never forget to be compassionate and understanding.
Jim
They invited us to their apartment for a dinner one evening and we accepted. They knew that we believed in the Sacrament of marriage and the importance and they knew we would prefer they were married, but we never were judgmental or rigid in our position.
To make a long story short, they broke up for a short period of time, to reflect on things. My daughter, came back to the Church and received Confirmation. Her ex, converted to the Church and both were eventually married. They gave my wife and myself, two wonderful grandchildren!
The point is, compassion goes a lot further than rigid instruction of Catholic doctrine.
If you truly live what you believe, and have Christ in your heart, they will notice and will more often than not, desire what you have in their own life.
Be patient, but consistent. Be firm, but never forget to be compassionate and understanding.
Jim
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catholicrocks
Guest
Of course you didn’t. You are doing this because you love her and don’t want to see her hurt.
I think it’s cool that you and your sister really seem to have a good relationship considering the situation. Again, something that makes me think that deep down she thinks you are at least partly right. I worry sometimes that the disagreements I have with my sister in regards to the faith will drive her away from me and from the Church. I just try to educate her and be there for her, and PRAY, PRAY, PRAY for all of us!!!
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Sierrah
Guest
This is how feel about such situations. You can’t force people to believe the way you do. I wouldn’t go to a gay wedding or anything like that but I’ve gone to several weddings where the couples had cohabited or we’re marrying outside of the church. I’m not a judgemental person…God is the only rightful judge and come judgement day I’ll have to face God and give him an accounting of my deeds bad or good. I don’t want to have to face him with the knowdge that I was unforgiving of others or not willing to let them live the life he gave them. I will share my beliefs if asked and make a comment if I think someone or something goes too far but for the most part I let God do the judging.
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Truly_Beloved
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I guess that’s where some of us disagree. A supposed “gay” wedding is just as illicit as Catholics who get married outside the Church, both events are proclaiming something false and promoting fornication (so is my understanding of Church teaching). Some parishes won’t even allow cohabiting couples to get married, so I don’t think I’m the only one with an issue regarding premarital cohabitation.
I can understand your point of view, though, many posters will agree with you.
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Truly_Beloved
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I totally get what you’re saying here, because I think that premarital sex/cohabitation is going “too far.” I’m not asking anything of my siblings/friends that I didn’t do, myself.I will share my beliefs if asked and make a comment if I think someone or something goes too far but for the most part I let God do the judging.
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David_Zampino
Guest
You have a good point . . . but I’m not sure that it would stand up to Scriptural scrutiny.If I misunderstand, or need to reread the Gospels (which is entirely possible
Jesus INVITED HIMSELF to the home of Zaccheus – PRIOR to his repentance. It was at dinner when Zaccheus announced his repentance.
With regard to Matthew and his friends – all we know is that Matthew had (or seems to have had) accepted Jesus’ invitation – but we don’t know – and cannot know – the moral or spiritual state of Matthew’s guests.
In addition, we have the accusation against Jesus by the Pharisees that “He eats and drinks with tax collectors and sinners”.
AGAIN – I DON’T advocate that you accept an immoral situation – merely that you handle it in the manner demonstrated in the Gospels. Perhaps it will be YOUR witness that will enable Jesus to say “Today salvation has come to this house”!
Blessings,
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Truly_Beloved
Guest
Good points, David, I will have to think long and hard on them, thank you. I can only pray that my witness could do something so great as to help bring salvation to an entire household.
I can only pray that my witness could do something so great as to help bring salvation to an entire household.
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CCM08
Guest
In mine you just an e-mail from an uncle saying they aren’t thrilled about seeing you get married to a “sand n**ger.”In my family, being biologically connected obliges you to all sorts of social things.
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Truly_Beloved
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I wouldn’t feel bound by this, either, in any way, shape, or form, regardless of blood ties. How awful that you and your wife have relatives that think (and actually express) things like this.In mine you just an e-mail from an uncle saying they aren’t thrilled about seeing you get married to a “sand n**ger.”
I have never heard this term before (the “sand” part), so I would have absolutely no clue what he was saying, if it were me.
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Norseman82
Guest
I don’t think you are being harsh at all. There is a part of the Cathechism where you are not supposed to be publicly approving a sin, and if you feel that visiting their house while they are cohabitationing is a signal of approval that you wish to avoid, then I stand behind you. Besides, I’ve found that quietly avoiding visiting people who “shack up” is far less harsh than other reactions that could be had (I mean, at other family gatherings, you speak and are civil, right?) And as far as because Jesus visited the homes of sinners that you should too, please remember that Jesus’ visits had happy endings: they converted; will your visits convert them?
Maybe I’m just getting frustrated about the way the world is, but maybe people who “shack up” need to feel more heat and have the stigmas brought back, because the lack of stigmas is only contributing to the explosion of cohabitationing.
Maybe I’m just getting frustrated about the way the world is, but maybe people who “shack up” need to feel more heat and have the stigmas brought back, because the lack of stigmas is only contributing to the explosion of cohabitationing.
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aklud
Guest
I can see both sides, I have lived both sides. I come from a strong Catholic family, I cohabitated and married a non-Catholic. Two years later I was divorced.
Right now I have been engaged to a non-Catholic (live and learn, I guess not) for over two years. We lived together for four years. A full year ago, a switch went off for me and we started abstaining. So, we were living together, sharing a bed, but with no physical intimacy. We started our marriage prep with my church and all seemed good.
A couple months ago I moved out. I needed to do the right thing, to set the right example. Not an easy thing to do, not easy for my fiance to understand. But I was able to do it with the support of my family who stood with me through it all. Sure, they didn’t approve of my first marriage, sure they were disappointed when it failed. Sure they didn’t like seeing me head down the exact same path I just came from.
I guess it was them telling me how they felt, how they disapproved, and how it reflected my life on my family that made me make changes. They used to visit me although due to space they could never stay. They welcomed us to their house but I knew better than to share a bed with my fiance. But it was more their example and their way of presenting it to me that helped me to listen. Anything stronger and I probably would have remarried again sooner. Anthing less and I would still be living with my fiance.
In my life, I see God working through all around me in different ways. God will help you make the right decision with this.
Right now I have been engaged to a non-Catholic (live and learn, I guess not) for over two years. We lived together for four years. A full year ago, a switch went off for me and we started abstaining. So, we were living together, sharing a bed, but with no physical intimacy. We started our marriage prep with my church and all seemed good.
A couple months ago I moved out. I needed to do the right thing, to set the right example. Not an easy thing to do, not easy for my fiance to understand. But I was able to do it with the support of my family who stood with me through it all. Sure, they didn’t approve of my first marriage, sure they were disappointed when it failed. Sure they didn’t like seeing me head down the exact same path I just came from.
I guess it was them telling me how they felt, how they disapproved, and how it reflected my life on my family that made me make changes. They used to visit me although due to space they could never stay. They welcomed us to their house but I knew better than to share a bed with my fiance. But it was more their example and their way of presenting it to me that helped me to listen. Anything stronger and I probably would have remarried again sooner. Anthing less and I would still be living with my fiance.
In my life, I see God working through all around me in different ways. God will help you make the right decision with this.
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