Premarital Sex

[schoolteacher68]

A bit of background…I am 48, divorced, annulled…fiancé is 49, divorced, annulled…we’ve been together for 3 years and attend weekly mass at his parish…he volunteers as an RCIA sponsor and I do the Children’s liturgy…we have a lot in common but one thing stopping me from marrying him is his financial situation…I make lots and have lots saved for rainy days and retirement…he doesn’t…in fact, he has lots of debt which his parents have bailed him out for twice now and most recently I saw his credit card balance online (he asked me to log in to his banking app while he was driving) and it’s more than half way to 5 digits again…we’ve talked about this before and he’s agreed to a prenup (I’ve already checked with our diocese and it’s ok to get one), but for some reason, it’s still holding me back…

Most recently we went on a motorcycle trip to PA and I unfortunately crashed my bike…it’s a write off, but I am alive although badly bruised and sore…thankfully nothing broken…three days later my mom passed away, so in the midst of dealing with excruciating pain, I had to deal with a funeral…this was late August/16…

This past weekend he apologized for the accident…he feels it’s his fault for going too fast and thus making me try to keep up (of course I should’ve slowed down and I told him I don’t blame him for it because it’s as much my fault)…he apologized before and I told him the same thing…however, he’s now decided that he was being selfish, putting his needs/wants before mine and before God’s…he’s translated this to our intimate life, saying whenever we come together, he’s putting his sexual needs before mine and before God’s…he believes (and I understand where he’s getting it from the Scriptures) that we need to be chaste in our relationship unless we are married…

So he’s given me three choices…1) marry him, 2) continue to be “engaged” but not have sexual relations until we decide to marry or 3) break up and remain friends…

The accident did kind of put things in a whole new perspective and in some ways, it’s reaffirmed that money isn’t everything…however, I just don’t understand where/what he’s buying to wrack up $7,000 debt in six months…he’s paying child support for four more months, but he’s making 2.5 times what he was making a year ago…he’s extremely kind hearted, generous, loving, etc. likes the same music, other interests but this whole money thing keeps bothering me and it has been for quite some time…we had a wedding date planned for the end of May 2016, but I cancelled it when I found out about a large of amount of debt that hadn’t been disclosed prior and his parents bailed him out again for the second time back in Feb/16…

Looking for advice…is it really that bad as Catholics to have sex outside of marriage in our situation…we can’t have kids (he was snipped 10 years ago) and we’re not promiscuous with other partners…I guess I am a cafeteria Catholic and he deserves someone closer to God than me…

P.S…a previous priest at our parish had absolved us of any sin stating that since we were committed to one another, sex was ok…our current priest says no way…and I think this has something to do with my fiancé’s thought process…

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

If you aren’t married, it’s a sin. Doesn’t matter if you don’t get pregnant, or if he’s the only man you’re with. Sex is a sacred act, and the only way to properly honor the bond it creates between a man and a woman is to establish commitment through marriage.

Don’t doubt your worthiness; in the end, we’re all bad Catholics. There was only ever one good Catholic, and she got assumed into Heaven.

 

[1ke]

but for some reason, it’s still holding me back…

This is a serious dealbreaker, IMHO.

So he’s given me three choices…1) marry him, 2) continue to be “engaged” but not have sexual relations until we decide to marry or 3) break up and remain friends…

I don’t understand why these are necessary. #2 is a non-starter for Catholics. You shouldn’t be having sex at all, period.

The accident did kind of put things in a whole new perspective and in some ways, it’s reaffirmed that money isn’t everything…however, I just don’t understand where/what he’s buying to wrack up $7,000 debt in six months…

Well a lifestyle of travel and motorcycles for one who can’t afford it… sounds like standard “living above his means” to me.

Looking for advice…is it really that bad as Catholics to have sex outside of marriage in our situation…

Um. Yes.

You really have to ask this?

we can’t have kids (he was snipped 10 years ago) and we’re not promiscuous with other partners…I guess I am a cafeteria Catholic and he deserves someone closer to God than me…

Neither of you sounds ready for marriage. I’m shocked the diocese indicated a prenuptial agreement was allowable-- especially since you are trying to shield yourself from his debts.

Red flags abound. Money, lifestyle, premarital sex, basically I don’t get it. Get your life together before you get engaged to anyone.

 

[1ke]

P.S…a previous priest at our parish had absolved us of any sin stating that since we were committed to one another, sex was ok…our current priest says no way…and I think this has something to do with my fiancé’s thought process…

Well that’s pretty sad. That priest is going to have a lot to answer for.

You teach religious education, right? What’s the sixth commandment?

The second priest has done you a favor by telling you the truth. Stop having sex, it’s an offense against chastity.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

A bit of background…I am 48, divorced, annulled…fiancé is 49, divorced, annulled…we’ve been together for 3 years and attend weekly mass at his parish…he volunteers as an RCIA sponsor and I do the Children’s liturgy…we have a lot in common but one thing stopping me from marrying him is his financial situation…I make lots and have lots saved for rainy days and retirement…he doesn’t…in fact, he has lots of debt which his parents have bailed him out for twice now and most recently I saw his credit card balance online (he asked me to log in to his banking app while he was driving) and it’s more than half way to 5 digits again…we’ve talked about this before and he’s agreed to a prenup (I’ve already checked with our diocese and it’s ok to get one), but for some reason, it’s still holding me back…

Most recently we went on a motorcycle trip to PA and I unfortunately crashed my bike…it’s a write off, but I am alive although badly bruised and sore…thankfully nothing broken…three days later my mom passed away, so in the midst of dealing with excruciating pain, I had to deal with a funeral…this was late August/16…

This past weekend he apologized for the accident…he feels it’s his fault for going too fast and thus making me try to keep up (of course I should’ve slowed down and I told him I don’t blame him for it because it’s as much my fault)…he apologized before and I told him the same thing…however, he’s now decided that he was being selfish, putting his needs/wants before mine and before God’s…he’s translated this to our intimate life, saying whenever we come together, he’s putting his sexual needs before mine and before God’s…he believes (and I understand where he’s getting it from the Scriptures) that we need to be chaste in our relationship unless we are married…

So he’s given me three choices…1) marry him, 2) continue to be “engaged” but not have sexual relations until we decide to marry or 3) break up and remain friends…

The accident did kind of put things in a whole new perspective and in some ways, it’s reaffirmed that money isn’t everything…however, I just don’t understand where/what he’s buying to wrack up $7,000 debt in six months…he’s paying child support for four more months, but he’s making 2.5 times what he was making a year ago…he’s extremely kind hearted, generous, loving, etc. likes the same music, other interests but this whole money thing keeps bothering me and it has been for quite some time…we had a wedding date planned for the end of May 2016, but I cancelled it when I found out about a large of amount of debt that hadn’t been disclosed prior and his parents bailed him out again for the second time back in Feb/16…

Looking for advice…is it really that bad as Catholics to have sex outside of marriage in our situation…we can’t have kids (he was snipped 10 years ago) and we’re not promiscuous with other partners…I guess I am a cafeteria Catholic and he deserves someone closer to God than me…

P.S…a previous priest at our parish had absolved us of any sin stating that since we were committed to one another, sex was ok…our current priest says no way…and I think this has something to do with my fiancé’s thought process…

I am shocked that Catholics who are in charge of formation of other Catholics could even ask the questions you are.

1. Premarital sex is a mortal sin. And you could be even more culpable because of your positions and age.
2. With two attempted marriages between the two of you and your current attitudes and understanding of what marriage is I must encourage you to learn more about marriage and what the church teaches.
3. I’m not sure the terms “fiancée” applies here.
4. I pray that you find the catechisis you desperately need.

 

[1ke]

I’m sure it was hard to come here and type out the details of your life. But read back through what you wrote here.

He’s great except he spends money when he can’t afford to. He’s great except his parents have to bail out his 49 year old self. Does that sound like someone ready to build a successful marriage? Sounds like a selfish, immature person to me.

It’s ok that we are having sex because he “got snipped” and we are in luuuuvvvv. Does that sound Catholic to you?

Neither vasectomies nor premarital sex are things Catholics should be doing, so please move away from the “he’s such a great Catholic he deserves someone better”. Frankly he sounds like a user to me-- using his parents, using you.

 

[on_the_hill]

Break up. He’ll never change, and you’ll always be questioning him.

 

[ClearWater]

I’m sure it was hard to come here and type out the details of your life. But read back through what you wrote here.

He’s great except he spends money when he can’t afford to. He’s great except his parents have to bail out his 49 year old self. Does that sound like someone ready to build a successful marriage? Sounds like a selfish, immature person to me.

It’s ok that we are having sex because he “got snipped” and we are in luuuuvvvv. Does that sound Catholic to you?

Neither vasectomies nor premarital sex are things Catholics should be doing, so please move away from the “he’s such a great Catholic he deserves someone better”. Frankly he sounds like a user to me-- using his parents, using you.

Right.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

We should never consider marriage to someone who is financially irresponsible. It sounds like he is finally showing some responsibility in questioning fornication. He has children? What kind of example has he been setting for them? Is he willing to commit to live an adult Christian life, financially, and in other ways?

 

[ChurchSoldier]

I think you would be the one bailing him out next time. And the next time. And…

You seem to have a clear picture of the characteristics of his which are troubling to you. If you don’t want those in your life, don’t bring them into your life. People don’t change just because they get married.

Good luck.

 

[Monica4316]

The Church teaching is that premarital sex is a mortal sin. Even if a priest in the past said it’s okay, this priest unfortunately contradicted Church teaching. It is in fact a mortal sin, because sex is for marriage only. In order to be validly absolved of it in Confession, a person would need to be repentant and contrite and not intend to commit this sin again.

Prayers for you

 

[carefullytread]

I think you would be the one bailing him out next time. And the next time. And…

You seem to have a clear picture of the characteristics of his which are troubling to you. If you don’t want those in your life, don’t bring them into your life. People don’t change just because they get married.

Good luck.

Yes, this is absolutely true. Your prenup will only protect you if you get divorced and litigate who’s responsible for his debts. It won’t help you turn away from your spouse who needs another $10,000 this time to pay off the credit card bills or is going to have to declare bankruptcy. Could you say no to him in those circumstances?

It would be a life time of fighting about money. Sometimes love is worth that (that’s up to you to decide), but go into with your eyes open. If you marry him, you should expect to bail him out of debt every few months forever and never really understand where the money went.

 

[thistle]

A bit of background…I am 48, divorced, annulled…fiancé is 49, divorced, annulled…we’ve been together for 3 years and attend weekly mass at his parish…he volunteers as an RCIA sponsor and I do the Children’s liturgy…we have a lot in common but one thing stopping me from marrying him is his financial situation…I make lots and have lots saved for rainy days and retirement…he doesn’t…in fact, he has lots of debt which his parents have bailed him out for twice now and most recently I saw his credit card balance online (he asked me to log in to his banking app while he was driving) and it’s more than half way to 5 digits again…we’ve talked about this before and he’s agreed to a prenup (I’ve already checked with our diocese and it’s ok to get one), but for some reason, it’s still holding me back…

Most recently we went on a motorcycle trip to PA and I unfortunately crashed my bike…it’s a write off, but I am alive although badly bruised and sore…thankfully nothing broken…three days later my mom passed away, so in the midst of dealing with excruciating pain, I had to deal with a funeral…this was late August/16…

This past weekend he apologized for the accident…he feels it’s his fault for going too fast and thus making me try to keep up (of course I should’ve slowed down and I told him I don’t blame him for it because it’s as much my fault)…he apologized before and I told him the same thing…however, he’s now decided that he was being selfish, putting his needs/wants before mine and before God’s…he’s translated this to our intimate life, saying whenever we come together, he’s putting his sexual needs before mine and before God’s…he believes (and I understand where he’s getting it from the Scriptures) that we need to be chaste in our relationship unless we are married…

So he’s given me three choices…1) marry him, 2) continue to be “engaged” but not have sexual relations until we decide to marry or 3) break up and remain friends…

The accident did kind of put things in a whole new perspective and in some ways, it’s reaffirmed that money isn’t everything…however, I just don’t understand where/what he’s buying to wrack up $7,000 debt in six months…he’s paying child support for four more months, but he’s making 2.5 times what he was making a year ago…he’s extremely kind hearted, generous, loving, etc. likes the same music, other interests but this whole money thing keeps bothering me and it has been for quite some time…we had a wedding date planned for the end of May 2016, but I cancelled it when I found out about a large of amount of debt that hadn’t been disclosed prior and his parents bailed him out again for the second time back in Feb/16…

Looking for advice…is it really that bad as Catholics to have sex outside of marriage in our situation…we can’t have kids (he was snipped 10 years ago) and we’re not promiscuous with other partners…I guess I am a cafeteria Catholic and he deserves someone closer to God than me…

P.S…a previous priest at our parish had absolved us of any sin stating that since we were committed to one another, sex was ok…our current priest says no way…and I think this has something to do with my fiancé’s thought process…

That priest is wrong. Premarital sex is NEVER permitted.

Frankly, with regard to your “fiancee” you should get rid of this guy as soon as possible. He will empty your bank account the minute the ring is on your finger.

 

[Memaw]

If you aren’t married, it’s a sin. Doesn’t matter if you don’t get pregnant, or if he’s the only man you’re with. Sex is a sacred act, and the only way to properly honor the bond it creates between a man and a woman is to establish commitment through marriage.

Don’t doubt your worthiness; in the end, we’re all bad Catholics. There was only ever one good Catholic, and she got assumed into Heaven.

That is NO excuse to continue on in serious sin. He is right, God must come first and God Will give us the Grace to be faithful. We are supposed to TRY to be GOOD Catholics instead of saying we’re all “bad” Catholics. Your both active in your parish but seem to lack knowlege and faith in the basics of our Catholic Faith. God Bless, Memaw

 

[pensmama87]

It sounds like this guy’s got you hoodwinked pretty good. If this was your sister or good friend, would you advise her to stay?

 

[Leifler]

So your real issue is wanting the sex and being afraid of finances. So you either want the current state of sex with no danger, or you are scared of sex with no sin?

I am not asking, but also think on what his CS is? In that if he is perhaps living with a degree of abandon because he had nothing, plus sees the light at the end of the tunnel?

Plus if he is always stuck due to CS and maybe court costs, he may have been in that zone where he was always to be financially destroyed and nothing mattered. Maybe now it will if he can get out of the funk? It can cause, I don’t really want to use the word “depression” but basically a depression like funk, and make it hard to break the cycle.
Now finally as you said making some more money, kids older instead of going into debt because life is destroying him, he for the first time in decades can kind of “live” money wise, and has the unfortunate habit of racking up debt from when it was more legitimate.

You said you “don’t know what he spends on” so I am guessing your talks did not cover going over a budget? You need to sit down and figure it out. And little things add up big, you said you make a lot, so you might be one to not even notice things like lunch out at work if his income doesn’t support it etc.

As to the sex, well this is Catholic forum, and quite clearly you are not supposed to be doing it until married. So the options you listed shouldn’t be what "he: is making you do, but what your options should be because of what God wants you to do.

 

[vz71]

People often know the right thing to do.
They make things complicated when they do not want to do it.

Seems to me the situation sounds complicated, but boils down to a couple of simple facts.

Premarital sex is wrong.
You distrust the person for being financially irresponsible.

This does not appear to be a healthy relationship. Move on.

 

[Monica4316]

People often know the right thing to do.
They make things complicated when they do not want to do it.

Seems to me the situation sounds complicated, but boils down to a couple of simple facts.

Premarital sex is wrong.
You distrust the person for being financially irresponsible.

This does not appear to be a healthy relationship. Move on.

This is very true. We do make things complicated when we don’t want to do something. I agree this does not sound like a healthy relationship.

 

[Lydia739]

I just don’t understand where/what he’s buying to wrack up $7,000 debt in six months…

On top of the things that others have commented on, this seems to me to be an additional concern. He is spending large amounts of money on something, and he is concealing that from you. You are a financially responsible person - it’s not just that you are wise not to tie your finances to someone who earns good money but can’t keep his financial head above water, but you also would be foolish to tie your finances to somebody who can’t be honest about money with the person he’s closest to.

It’s a further concern that you cannot see anything in his lifestyle to account for it. This suggests that a significant proportion of that money is going on things you know nothing about. It could be just that he does not want you to know that he has spent the money because he is ashamed of his lack of self-discipline, but it’s also very possible that he is spending it on something that he is keeping secret for another reason. It could be quite innocent, or it could be something like gambling or hard core porn or prostitutes or anything, really. The point is that you do not know. You are wise to be wary. This road leads to some very very scary places.

So I agree that marrying him would almost certainly be disastrous. But I also agree with the many who’ve posted that sex is for marriage - until you find a man with whom you can share your everything (including your money), don’t share your body.

 

[goout]

A bit of background…I am 48, divorced, annulled…fiancé is 49, divorced, annulled…we’ve been together for 3 years and attend weekly mass at his parish…he volunteers as an RCIA sponsor and I do the Children’s liturgy…we have a lot in common but one thing stopping me from marrying him is his financial situation…I make lots and have lots saved for rainy days and retirement…he doesn’t…in fact, he has lots of debt which his parents have bailed him out for twice now and most recently I saw his credit card balance online (he asked me to log in to his banking app while he was driving) and it’s more than half way to 5 digits again…we’ve talked about this before and he’s agreed to a prenup (I’ve already checked with our diocese and it’s ok to get one), but for some reason, it’s still holding me back…

Most recently we went on a motorcycle trip to PA and I unfortunately crashed my bike…it’s a write off, but I am alive although badly bruised and sore…thankfully nothing broken…three days later my mom passed away, so in the midst of dealing with excruciating pain, I had to deal with a funeral…this was late August/16…

This past weekend he apologized for the accident…he feels it’s his fault for going too fast and thus making me try to keep up (of course I should’ve slowed down and I told him I don’t blame him for it because it’s as much my fault)…he apologized before and I told him the same thing…however, he’s now decided that he was being selfish, putting his needs/wants before mine and before God’s…he’s translated this to our intimate life, saying whenever we come together, he’s putting his sexual needs before mine and before God’s…he believes (and I understand where he’s getting it from the Scriptures) that we need to be chaste in our relationship unless we are married…

So he’s given me three choices…1) marry him, 2) continue to be “engaged” but not have sexual relations until we decide to marry or 3) break up and remain friends…

The accident did kind of put things in a whole new perspective and in some ways, it’s reaffirmed that money isn’t everything…however, I just don’t understand where/what he’s buying to wrack up $7,000 debt in six months…he’s paying child support for four more months, but he’s making 2.5 times what he was making a year ago…he’s extremely kind hearted, generous, loving, etc. likes the same music, other interests but this whole money thing keeps bothering me and it has been for quite some time…we had a wedding date planned for the end of May 2016, but I cancelled it when I found out about a large of amount of debt that hadn’t been disclosed prior and his parents bailed him out again for the second time back in Feb/16…

Looking for advice…is it really that bad as Catholics to have sex outside of marriage in our situation…we can’t have kids (he was snipped 10 years ago) and we’re not promiscuous with other partners…I guess I am a cafeteria Catholic and he deserves someone closer to God than me…

P.S…a previous priest at our parish had absolved us of any sin stating that since we were committed to one another, sex was ok…our current priest says no way…and I think this has something to do with my fiancé’s thought process…

I think that rather than looking for advice you are trying to avoid an agonizing choice.
Are you called to marry this man, or are you not? Marriage is a vocation, a call from God to unite your life with another person.

Life is chock full of agonizing, soul-searching choices that require sacrifice and are risky.
Sometimes we would rather stay in a perpetual discernment process than commit, because making the choice to commit can be so agonizing.
Saying no to marriage likely means saying good bye. Saying yes to marriage can be just as frightening.
When I think of these situations which we all encounter in life I think of Jesus sweating like he is bleeding in the Garden.

Option 3 that he gives you is not a realistic option. People involved in sexual relationships cannot, in most cases, remain “just friends”. The bonding process is designed to be very powerful and in my experience, will lead to a non-committed limbo in which you “just can’t keep your hands off one another but don’t want to marry yet”.