E
elts1956
Guest
Depending on the subject, abortion no latitude. Intrinsic evil you know.
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E
elts1956
Guest
E
elts1956
Guest
In what instance is bo protecting the child in the womb, or out of it? Give sources please. You are basing this on unfounded statements.
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diggerdomer
Guest
Oh. Sorry. Thanks, I must have missed that, I was only aware of the Republican and Democratic platforms. What party are you referring to?
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elts1956
Guest
ITS TIME TO THANK YOUR LOCAL BISHOP
catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=33252&wf=rsscol
The following 42 Bishops have come out in opposition to the Notre Dame scandal.
Let’s give them a big hurrah and write to thank them.
Thank God for a few good men.
The bishops who have so far expressed disapproval of Notre Dame’s invitation to Obama (in alphabetical order) are:
catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=33252&wf=rsscol
The following 42 Bishops have come out in opposition to the Notre Dame scandal.
Let’s give them a big hurrah and write to thank them.
Thank God for a few good men.
The bishops who have so far expressed disapproval of Notre Dame’s invitation to Obama (in alphabetical order) are:
- Bishop John D’Arcy - Fort Wayne-South Bend, IN
- Bishop Samuel Aquila - Fargo, ND
- Bishop Gregory Aymond - Austin, TX
- Bishop Gerald Barbarito - Palm Beach, FL
- Bishop Leonard Blair - Toledo, OH
- Archbishop Daniel Buechlein - Indianapolis, IN
- Bishop Robert Baker - Birmingham, AL
- Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz - Lincoln, NE
- Archbishop Eusebius Beltran - Oklahoma City, OK
- Auxiliary Bishop Oscar Cantú - San Antonio, TX
- Bishop Paul Coakley - Salina, KS
- Cardinal Daniel DiNardo - Houston, TX
- Archbishop Timothy Dolan - New York, NY
- Bishop Thomas Doran - Rockford, IL
- Auxiliary Bishop John Dougherty - Scranton, PA
- Bishop Robert Finn - Kansas City-St. Joseph, MO
- Cardinal Francis George - Chicago, IL; President, USCCB
- Bishop Gerald Gettelfinger - Evansville, IN
- Archbishop José Gomez - San Antonio, TX
- Bishop William Higi - Lafayette, IN
- Archbishop Alfred Hughs - New Orleans, LA
- Bishop Joseph Latino - Jackson, MS
- Bishop Jerome Listecki - La Crosse, WI
- Bishop William E. Lori - Bridgeport, CT
- Bishop George Lucas - Springfield, IL
- Bishop Robert Lynch - St. Petersburg, FL
- Bishop Joseph Martino - Scranton, PA
- Bishop Charles Morlino - Madison, WI
- Bishop George Murry - Youngstown, OH
- Archbishop John J. Myers - Newark, NJ
- Bishop R. Walker Nickless - Sioux City, IA
- Archbishop John C. Nienstedt - St. Paul-Minneapolis, MN
- Archbishop Edwin O’Brien - Baltimore, MD
- Bishop Thomas Olmsted - Phoenix, AZ
- Archbishop Daniel E. Pilarczyk - Cincinnati, OH
- Bishop Kevin Rhoades - Harrisburg, PA
- Bishop Alexander Sample - Marquette, MI
- Bishop Edward J. Slattery - Tulsa, OK
- Bishop Richard Stika - Knoxville, TN
- Bishop Anthony Taylor - Little Rock, AR
- Bishop Robert Vasa - Baker, OR
- Bishop Thomas Wenski - Orlando, FL
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mapleoak
Guest
Thank you Bishop Sample!!
:clapping:
F
fix
Guest
But, the point is if we each come to differing conclusions, and each claim we are justified, then there is no need for the bishops to tell us how to form our conscience as any conclusion can be justified.
Anyway, this is off topic.
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Sean_Boyle
Guest
According to the source that I’ve read, the 2008 Republican Party official platform calls for a ban on all embryonic stem cell research, public or private.
That statement seems very clear…
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diggerdomer
Guest
platform.gop.com/2008Platform.pdf
If you read it you’ll see their platform does not match the Catholic Church’s view on either abortion or stem cell research.
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Trader
Guest
Biship D’Arcy has issued a further statement after Father Jenkins gave interviews that said he had consulted canon lawyers who told him that the USCCB statement did not apply in this matter.
I don’t know how Bishop D’Arcy could be more clear in saying that it does. At least read the second to last paragraph.
diocesefwsb.org/COMMUNICATIONS/statements.htm
I don’t know how Bishop D’Arcy could be more clear in saying that it does. At least read the second to last paragraph.
diocesefwsb.org/COMMUNICATIONS/statements.htm
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Sean_Boyle
Guest
Fr. Jenkins consulted a canon lawyer about a statement by the USCCB? Unless this was a canonical law the canon lawyer’s opinion on the meaning of the U.S. Bishops statements has no more bearing than anyone elses.
Did Fr. Jenkins really believe that this “spin” would cover “truth”??
T
Trader
Guest
When I was in the seminary we had a standing joke about canon lawyers, “Every bishop needs a good canon lawyer, but no bishop would want two of them.” If you ask enough lawyers, economists, politicians, accountants, philosophers, theologians, or canon lawyers you will eventually get the answer you want to hear. That does not make your own opinion the right one.
To me it says a lot about the president of a university that supposedly exists to seek the truth, even if it were just a secular university. A catholic university should have a tremendous advantage in that it has both the natural world and divine revelation to discover truth. In this matter the leadership of Notre Dame has failed the university and the larger community, both catholic and non-catholic. Father Jenkins should resign for the good of Notre Dame and the church he was ordained to serve.
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elts1956
Guest
:bigyikes: Yeah, the GOP platform was really terrible.
Are you sure you provided the right link?This is what I read from p.p.40 and 41. Now if you can point me in the direction of where they discuss abortion, I’ll read that too.
“Taxpayer-funded medical research must be
based on sound science, with a focus on both
prevention and treatment, and in accordance with
the humane ethics of the Hippocratic Oath. In
that regard, we call for a major expansion of
support for the stem-cell research that now shows
amazing promise and offers the greatest hope for
scores of diseases . with adult stem cells, umbilical
cord blood, and cells reprogrammed into pluripotent
stem cells . without the destruction of embryonic
human life. We call for a ban on human cloning and
a ban on the creation of or experimentation on
human embryos for research purposes.”
Uh, doesn’t the Church say this too?
We believe medicines and treatments should be
designed to prolong and enhance life, not destroy it.
Therefore, federal funds should not be used for drugs
that cause the destruction of human life.
Furthermore, the Drug Enforcement Administration
ban on use of controlled substances for physicianassisted
suicide should be restored.
P.41
Protecting Rights of Conscience
The health care profession can be both a profession
and a calling. No health care professional .
doctor, nurse, or pharmacist . or organization
should ever be required to perform, provide for, or
refer for a health care service against their conscience
for any reason. This is especially true of the religious
organizations which deliver a major portion of
America.s health care, a service rooted in the charity
of faith communities.
Now how is Obama protecting human life as well as is stated above. How DO you interpret what you read?
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diggerdomer
Guest
I’m pretty sure it’s the right link, but if it’s not please correct it so better information is out there.:bigyikes: Yeah, the GOP platform was really terrible.
Fine with me if you think the platform is terrible, thanks for letting us know. I’m a registered Republican but take no offense. That’s one of the great things about America and the Catholic Church.
All I am saying is that neither party’s platform agrees completely with the Catholic Church’s positions on moral issues such as abortion and stem cell research. I didn’t say neither one has elements that are laudable from a Catholic perspective. I get the impression, though, that some Catholics think that there is only one candidate or party that’s available as a voting option for Catholics (contrary to what the Church teaches) and that it’s not a matter of prudential individual judgment of a properly formed conscience, but rather something that has been a priori decided based on one (or a few) issues exclusively.
I think the part you were quoting and questioning in particular regarding stem cell research does indeed sound compatible with Catholic teaching. But, unless I’m mistaken (and please, of course, don’t hesitate to let me know if you think so) that section of the platform was talking about *federal funding *of such initiatives. Read the whole section.
It was not calling for an outright ban on the destruction of human embryos for research.
A good step, a good idea, definitely worth working for…but not the same as what the Church teaches.
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elts1956
Guest
Digger, you confuse even yourself.
E
elts1956
Guest
But it comes a heck of a lot closer than the Dem. platform. Voting for the lesser of two evils you know. Oh that’s right you didn’t “see” that statement.
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mapleoak
Guest
Come on now. :choocho:
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Luis_Santiago
Guest
Here’s the problem. Opposing abortion is an ideological position, not a practical one. There would be little for our society to gain by making abortion illegal, and it would probably cause more problems than it would solve. I’m not saying that ideological positions are necessarily wrong or bad, they just may not be practical.
George W. Bush was a very ideological president, and I supported him in 2000 because of his strong pro-life record. Indeed, he stuck with his position throughout his presidency. But he was too ideological in other respects, and the country suffered for it. Abortion rates didn’t even go down under his watch though. His unpopularity has given the Democrats the biggest majorities they’ve had since the sixties, and they’re about to get a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. Assuming Al Franken gets the Minnesota seat, they’ll be able to pass anything they want.
We’ve had eight years of a strongly pro-life president, and what has it gotten us? Practically nothing. At least Obama might work to reduce the demand for abortions. And honestly, reducing demand for abortions is our best option. In the past, Christians brought about moral values from the bottom up, not the top down. I think we have to start doing that again now.
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stringbeanduck
Guest
I don’t agree with this at all. Society has lost a lot from abortion. Maybe a cure for cancer, diabetes, AIDS, ALS, new inventions, improved alternative energy. Many women, men, and families(yes, abortion does affect men, and families too) often turn to suicide, depression, drugs/alcohol, sex, ect, because of abortion. Society has a lot to gain from making abortion illegal(or least setting massive restrictions on it).
Name one darn thing Obama has planned to do to reduce abortion other than passing out rubbers, and birth control with several side affects.
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Luis_Santiago
Guest
First, I am not saying abortion is ok, or right, or not a problem. I want to make this very clear. It is a problem, and one we need to find solutions too.
That being said, there would certainly be people in the world today who are not here now because of abortion. In different circumstances, our president himself might not be here. I don’t think his mother would have aborted him even if it was legal, since she was planning on marrying his father, but that’s still something to think about. Of course, on the flip side, our president would not be here were it not for premarital sex either, though that’s not to say that premarital sex is necessarily a good thing.
Still, paradoxically, there are also people alive today who would not be here were it not for abortion. Many women have abortions because they are not ready to raise children. They have children later that they wouldn’t have had if they had to raise the ones that were aborted. My ex-girlfriend’s mother had an abortion as a teenager, then met her husband later in college. If she had raised that child, she would have had to put off college and would not have met her future husband, and would not have had her family including my ex-girlfriend. Incidentally, she eventually converted to Catholicism, had six children, and is now one of the most devout Catholics I know.
Abortion can harm men, women, and families, but then, any unwanted pregnancy can have the same effect. A friend of mine committed suicide after his ex-girlfriend told him she was pregnant and she was keeping it. I don’t know why exactly he killed himself. I know he was doing everything he could to get away from this girl at the time. I don’t think he put much consideration into what he did. He was always impulsive like that. But it turns out the girl was lying about being pregnant.
Improved access to birth control does reduce abortions, and it can’t be written off. Health education, anti-poverty programs, and better teachers that can steer students onto a more moral path in life, all can help too. Plus, he and Michelle are very good role models for black teenagers, who have high abortion rates. Granted, this has little to do with his legislative agenda, but you can’t underestimate the value of his personal life as a model.
If people demanded it, I’m sure it would be possible to come up with a whole list of ways to reduce abortion, short of just making it illegal.
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