President Obama to receive honorary degree from Notre Dame

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Luis_Santiago said:
You’re right, it was an appeal to the majority. Closely related but not actually the same thing. It’s still the same logical fallacy bingo square. 😉

Ahhh still wrong. How do I know the majority feels that way? Maybe you’re saying that because there seems to be more posters on this thread going against you perhaps? I had no clue what other posters were going to think of my syllogism. The only thing I was appealing to, was other poster’s opinions on my syllogism. I had no clue whether they were going to aid my argument or go against.

See mapleoak, what I just did there was “admitting I was wrong”. This is something that we sometimes have to be able to do in order to learn new things, and become smarter people. You see, I didn’t call him names and change the subject. I admitted I was wrong and corrected my mistake.

It would have been clearer to say something like “Obama supports continuing the legal status of abortion” or something more specific like that.

Wow then you might have a serious probelm there. If you’re that concerned about other folk’s nitty gritty logic rather than the facts that they are presenting, then you have committed a Red Herring.
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Ohh my appologies Walt. I just saw your post.
 
Luis_Santiago said:
It’s very unclear what is meant by “he supports abortion”. Does he support all abortions? Does he support China’s coerced abortion policy? Is he part of the support staff for abortion clinics? The statement is too vague to have any real meaning.

I’m approaching it as an argument accessible by anyone. If you mentioned that this is what the Church teaches, I would have had no problems with that. Plus, you don’t have to believe 100% of the Church’s teachings to be Catholic.
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“You dont have to believe 100% of the church’s teachings to be catholic?” Yeah right.
Another cafeteria catholic. pick and choose this I’ll believe and that is too hard so I wont. Yeah right.
Then as a cafeteria catholic you would have loads of problems with Humane Vitae, The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Primacy of Peter, the Infallibility of the Pope on matters of faith and morals etc etc etc.
Cafeteria catholic.
GraceAngel.
 
mapleoak said:
What it comes down to is the perception that people will have coming from a Catholic University, is that the president’s moral character is something to either hold in high regard, or even perceive that his anti-life stance is not something a Catholic in good conscience needs to even be concerned about.
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You must think people are stupid and cannot reason for themselves. I know what your reply will be.
 
fix said:
Has this been posted yet?
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I missed it too, so thank you. What a touching and lovely letter from a lady who has been through a time of great testing and came thrugh it whole in mind, body and spirit. Bless her.
 
fix said:
Has this been posted yet?
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Luis_Santiago said:
Oh, so not blindly following a leader is a good thing then, except when Father Jenkins does it?

Which is, exactly like I said, from two years ago, when he was courting pro-choice groups. This doesn’t contradict what I said, that he has listened to the people and moved away from that position.
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Direct me to one reliable source which shows bo has taken a pro life stance on (from conception to natural death) a pro life issue. You are thinking wishfully.
 
Luis_Santiago said:
In his press conference Wednesday, Obama distinctly said that FOCA is not a priority for Congress or his administration. Is that your idea of “enthusiastic support”?
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As an after question in response to this: have you see, or are you aware of the Prevention First Act? Yep FOCA piecemeal.
 
In the movie…Rudy…the big game…the coach says a prayer…the Hail Mary then with hands held tightly he proclaims…'no one NO ONE,comes into our house and pushes us around!" and the game continues and ND wins it. Let us all pray also that if the president does go and no planned incident or tragedy occurs that will cause yet another smear against the right to innocent life movement and …and the RCC…N
 
elts1956 said:
Direct me to one reliable source which shows bo has taken a pro life stance on (from conception to natural death) a pro life issue. You are thinking wishfully.
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Look, I’ve never once claimed Obama is taking a pro-life stance. He’s clearly pro-choice. But he has done plenty to indicate that he’s willing to make concessions to the pro-life position. The guidelines he released for embryonic stem cell research were a lot stricter than Democrats wanted. He hasn’t tried to pursue getting FOCA passed. He made reducing abortions part of the Democrat platform. Even the Vatican said that although they were initially worried about Obama, that so far what they were the most concerned would happen hasn’t played out.
 
Luis_Santiago said:
I’m approaching it as an argument accessible by anyone. If you mentioned that this is what the Church teaches, I would have had no problems with that. Plus, you don’t have to believe 100% of the Church’s teachings to be Catholic.
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One of the most beautiful parts of the Easter Vigil comes after the catechumens are baptised, when those who were already batised in another faith tradition are received into full communion with the Catholic Church. I have been present up close and personal for 21 of the last 25 years when Bishop D’Arcy has presided at the Easter Vigil in the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception. At every one of those services the candidates were asked the same question, “Do you accept all that the Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed of God?”

That is a pass/fail test. Never has the bishop asked if they accept “some”, “most”, or “a majority” of what the Church believes. To be Catholic is to be in full communion with the Church. The Anglican Church may call itself catholic, and does agree with a majority of what Catholics believe. There is a difference between “Catholic” and “catholic” in the sense that one is complete and one is not. So in your opinion what part of Christ Jesus, the fullness of God’s revelation, is it OK to reject?
 
Luis_Santiago said:
Look, I’ve never once claimed Obama is taking a pro-life stance. He’s clearly pro-choice. But he has done plenty to indicate that he’s willing to make concessions to the pro-life position. The guidelines he released for embryonic stem cell research were a lot stricter than Democrats wanted. He hasn’t tried to pursue getting FOCA passed. He made reducing abortions part of the Democrat platform. Even the Vatican said that although they were initially worried about Obama, that so far what they were the most concerned would happen hasn’t played out.
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Could you supply a source for the information from the Vatican please? or a link?
 
Luis_Santiago said:
Even the Vatican said that although they were initially worried about Obama, that so far what they were the most concerned would happen hasn’t played out.
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I did not see in the document where the Vatican is no longer worried about Obama’s pro-death position.
 
Ok, so initially they were very worried, now they’re just worried. My main point is that they say he’s not as bad as they thought he’d be. I know that’s not a ringing endorsement, but I never said it was.
 
Luis_Santiago said:
in this case I suspect he and the Bishop don’t see eye to eye on a lot of things, and Fr. Jenkins didn’t ask the local Bishop because he knew exactly what he’d say anyway.
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They definitely disagree on certain things. As to why the Bishop was not consulted before the invitation was sent and accepted, we can only guess. I just meant that they didn’t simply “ignore” the Bishop because they did call and notify him before the public announcement was made. Also, regarding subsequent communications that have been made public, I still think there’s a difference between ignoring and disagreeing…I really doubt that ND simply “ignored” Bishop D’Arcy’s statements; obviously though they disagree with some though.

That’s all I meant.
 
redrosetea said:
Thank you but I am not reading this as an endorsement of him, just a guarded look at his first 100 days, which have been largely taken up with economic concerns, and little else
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The CNS article may have a bit more info: catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0901955.htm

I agree with Luis, the point (for many of us) is not that the Vatican is endorsing him – I would never expect that – but that he’s not the demon/Satan that many seem to think he is, at least by reading comments about him that some people post on forums like CAF. I would hope this news article from the Vatican could lend some balance to modify some of the more extreme opinions from Catholics.
 
diggerdomer said:
I agree with Luis, the point (for many of us) is not that the Vatican is endorsing him – I would never expect that – but that he’s not the demon/Satan that many seem to think he is, at least by reading comments about him that some people post on forums like CAF. I would hope this news article from the Vatican could lend some balance to modify some of the more extreme opinions from Catholics.
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Of course he is not a demon/Satan, but rather a human being who is seriously misguided regarding the sanctity of human life. Note that he would like to appoint a nominee to the supreme court who intends to read the Freedom of Choice Act into the Constitution.
 
diggerdomer said:
The CNS article may have a bit more info: catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0901955.htm

I agree with Luis, the point (for many of us) is not that the Vatican is endorsing him – I would never expect that – but that he’s not the demon/Satan that many seem to think he is, at least by reading comments about him that some people post on forums like CAF. I would hope this news article from the Vatican could lend some balance to modify some of the more extreme opinions from Catholics.
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Well you can’t prove it by me…His actions toward the unborn speak louder than words…like him and defend him all you like…just don’t try to do it with me, because I’m not buying
 
Is there a guideline at Notre Dame that all students MUST be Catholic to attend?
 
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