President Obama to receive honorary degree from Notre Dame

[fix]

In other words, he is quite willing to accept the offers of Catholics who do not wish to follow Catholicism.

The ends justify the means. Nothing new there.

 

[Luis_Santiago]

In other words, he is quite willing to accept the offers of Catholics who do not wish to follow Catholicism.

Well, I think we can agree on that, at least in the general sense. After all, he did pick Biden as his running mate, and Kathleen Sebelius as his HHS secretary. They seem to view Catholicism as more of a cultural and social aspect of their lives, and not so much a set of rules for leading a moral life.

In the case of Notre Dame though, you can hardly blame Obama for at least trying to get some Catholics to support some of his agenda. After all, the protesters are those people who would never support him in a million years anyway. What reason would Obama have to defer to a group of people that have set out to do everything they can to oppose him? And I’m not talking about abortion here, I’m talking about the subjects that Obama is most concerned with.

 

[Insight]

There are too many lies here to refute them all in a timely fashion. Isn’t there a commandment about that? Obviously, you don’t care what is true, so there’s not much point in me trying, but he certainly didn’t start off his presidential campaign from Bill Ayers’ living room. He did that at the same place Lincoln did - the capitol building in Springfield Illinois.

Oh really, listen to the 3rd Presidential Debate when John McCain confronted Obama about launching his Campaign from Bill Ayer’s living room. It is the only time Obama didn’t give a reply, he changed the topic.

Whatever you say about Rev. Wright, his church was accomplishing a lot in that community, as far as helping the poor and combating gangs, drugs, crime, etc. I think Obama recognized this and joined the church because of it, despite any nuttiness on the part of its leader.

I guess you didn’t listen to Rev. Wright’s “God damn America” Speech.

God Bless

 

[diggerdomer]

In other words, he is quite willing to accept the offers of Catholics who do not wish to follow Catholicism.

Can you name ONE Catholic who has pledged him/herself to President Obama with the understanding that such a pledge indicates he/she does not wish to follow Catholicism?

One?

Explicit?

Please?

Or…is this, as I fear, just another sweeping irrational and subjective statement/accusation that is unsupported by any factual evidence?

Thanks for any clarification.

And please, if you choose to reply, I’m asking you to reply to what you stated:

the offers of Catholics who do not wish to follow Catholicism.

That’s what you claimed.

Not “the offers of Catholics WHOM I THINK do not wish to follow Catholicism” but rather
“the offers of Catholics who do not wish to follow Catholicism.”

In other words, you’re claiming an objective factual situation, not just your opinion. So, please give ONE (minimal) objective support for your claim??

 

[elts1956]

Can you name ONE Catholic who has pledged him/herself to President Obama with the understanding that such a pledge indicates he/she does not wish to follow Catholicism?

That is the BIG problem. Those Catholics who voted for bo didn’t understand squat about the teachings of the Catholic church and its directions regarding supporting the abortion platform of a political candidate. They didn’t know if they were following the teachings of the Catholic Church, or not. I would surmise many didn’t really care. I take many of the clergy of the past 40 years, or more, to task, for the lack of teaching Catholic truths, those who did not give these folks who are ignorant of their Faith, good solid Catholic catechesis. One wouldn’t have found such confusion among Catholics 40 to 50 years ago. The Church taught Absolutes then. The reaction to killing unborn children at that time would have been inexpressable horror. Now half of the Catholics here in the US claim it is a choice.
One?

Explicit?

Please?

Or…is this, as I fear, just another sweeping irrational and subjective statement/accusation that is unsupported by any factual evidence?

Thanks for any clarification.

And please, if you choose to reply, I’m asking you to reply to what you stated:

That’s what you claimed.

Not “the offers of Catholics WHOM I THINK do not wish to follow Catholicism” but rather
“the offers of Catholics who do not wish to follow Catholicism.”

In other words, you’re claiming an objective factual situation, not just your opinion. So, please give ONE (minimal) objective support for your claim??

 

[JimG]

Can you name ONE Catholic who has pledged him/herself to President Obama with the understanding that such a pledge indicates he/she does not wish to follow Catholicism?

Let me give a few off the top of my head. Pro-abortion Catholics by definition do not follow Catholicism. There are lots of them–Speaker Pelosi, VP Biden, Caroline Kennedy along with most of the Kennedy clan, HHS Secretary Sebelius along with other nominally Catholic Obama cabinet appointees. One cannot be both pro-abortion and Catholic–and it is just these pro-abortion Catholics that Obama welcomes.

 

[Insight]

I don’t know if this has been posted already:

Some Notre Dame Seniors Say No to Graduation

Because of President Obama’s appearance and speech at Notre Dame this Sunday, some seniors will not attend their own graduation ceremony and instead join a University prayer service on the grounds at Notre Dame. No indication yet as to how many seniors will forgo the graduation ceremony.

blogs.cbn.com/thebrodyfile/archive/2009/05/12/notre-dame-seniors-say-no-to-graduation.aspx

 

[diggerdomer]

Let me give a few off the top of my head. Pro-abortion Catholics by definition do not follow Catholicism. There are lots of them–Speaker Pelosi, VP Biden, Caroline Kennedy along with most of the Kennedy clan, HHS Secretary Sebelius along with other nominally Catholic Obama cabinet appointees. One cannot be both pro-abortion and Catholic–and it is just these pro-abortion Catholics that Obama welcomes.

Thank you. I guess we’re going to differ on this. I recognize those people as pro-choice and not pro-abortion, and while I still think of course being “pro-choice” is problematic for a Catholic, I’m not going to kick them out of the Church while there’s hope, as I see it, that they will continue to better form their conscience.

But I also recognize for some people the pro-choice vs. pro-abortion distinction is meaningless. Peace.

 

[Insight]

But I also recognize for some people the pro-choice vs. pro-abortion distinction is meaningless. Peace.

There is a difference, Pro-Choice is a term that candy coats murder, Pro-Abortion brings things a little more into perspective.

On another note, does anyone know what’s up with the membership ranking? After the site was overhauled, many Senior members are now Junior members.

God Bless

 

[JimG]

Thank you. I guess we’re going to differ on this. I recognize those people as pro-choice and not pro-abortion, and while I still think of course being “pro-choice” is problematic for a Catholic, I’m not going to kick them out of the Church while there’s hope, as I see it, that they will continue to better form their conscience.

But I also recognize for some people the pro-choice vs. pro-abortion distinction is meaningless. Peace.

I don’t say that some Catholic pro-choicers are not sincere when they say that they support choice but not abortion. But abortion is a lot more serious a choice than most choices in life, and I think that the continued prevalence of the abortion regime has the ability to pull down our society.

 

[mapleoak]

But I also recognize for some people the pro-choice vs. pro-abortion distinction is meaningless. Peace.

Kind of like the meaningless difference between the terms “ethnic cleansing” and “genocide” for example.

 

[fix]

Kind of like the meaningless difference between the terms “ethnic cleansing” and “genocide” for example.

Can one be “pro choice” on arson? Or, pedophilia?

 

[tm30]

Thank you. I guess we’re going to differ on this. I recognize those people as pro-choice and not pro-abortion, and while I still think of course being “pro-choice” is problematic for a Catholic, I’m not going to kick them out of the Church while there’s hope, as I see it, that they will continue to better form their conscience.

But I also recognize for some people the pro-choice vs. pro-abortion distinction is meaningless. Peace.

Let’s see, I’m pro-choice when it comes to genocide, but I’m not pro-genocide.

Discuss this with a Jewish acquaintance of your choice.

 

[mapleoak]

Can one be “pro choice” on arson? Or, pedophilia?

If someone were to say he was pro choice in regards to pedophilia but not pro-pedophilia, he would actually be saying “I would never abuse children and don’t believe in abusing children, but I only support others rights to choose whether they will abuse children”, he would be regarded as sick in the head. Not only that, he would be regarded as most definitely a supporter of child abuse.

 

[Jesus_123]

+:coffeeread:
Father Jenkins letter to the Notre Dame graduates . . . attempting to rationalize his choice for Commencement Speaker of the most prominent, powerful and influential pro-abortion leader in the United States today . . . President Obama . . . seems rather like . . . **Pontius Pilate **. . . trying to . . . *wash his hands of blood guilt *. . . while being in a position where he has . . . ***the ability ***. . . ***and the power ***. . . to preserve and uphold the **justice/righteousness **of our **Lord Jesus Christ **and the True Faith of Christ’s Apostolic Holy Roman Catholic Church . . . Father Jenkins continues to deliberately choose . . . of his own free will . . . NOT to do that which he knows . . . very well by now . . . is morally right and the only true good for those under his shepherding care in this circumstance . . . the graduating students . . . and the University bearing the name of Our Lady . . . the . . . sinless . . . Blessed Virgin Mary . . .

Daily life is filled with an infinity of choices . . . many small . . . some . . . NOT small at all . . . but the choice to support and join together with those who (metaphorically speaking) prefer . . . “Barrabas” . . . *a murderer *. . . to . . . "Jesus Christ (God Incarnate)" . . . . that is a GRAVELY IMPORTANT choice . . . and especially so for a priest of Christ’s Holy Roman Catholic Church . . .

Below is a passage from a letter written by St. Bernard of Clairvaux to the Bishops of Acquitaine regarding Gerard . . . Bishop of Angouleme . . . who . . . having been deposed from his office of nuncio by Pope Innocent . . . *because of reprehensible conduct *. . . attached himself in a spirit of opposition . . . to the Antipope Anacletus . . .

* . . . regretably . . . this appears to fit the circumstance . . .*​

“How foolish and vain is the passion of this old man, who dishonors his age and his priesthood for an ephemeral title, and a power which will pass away from him! What an abominable crime to reopen by a schism the wound in our Saviour’s side, whence flowed that blood and water which united all nations in one faith. Can any man divide them without becoming an enemy of His cross, and the accomplice of His death? O fierce passion! I have already said it, and he does not deny that he had the impudence to endeavor to obtain the object of his ambition … And with that sacrilegious hand he holds a power which he now uses to pierce the Saviour’s side, and ravage the Church! But one day he shall look on Him whom he pierced …

However it may be, the oracle of the Holy Ghost shall be accomplished; it must be that scandals come, but nevertheless, woe to that man by whom the scandal cometh!” - St. Bernard of Clairvaux

***“Be not deceived;
God is not mocked:
for whatsoever a man soweth,
that shall he also reap.” ***
Galatians 6:7
:bible1:
+

 

[Trader]

You may be interested in some local news coverage in Fort Wayne. It includes short interviews with Bishop D’Arcy. I had forgotten that the bishop also refused to attend in 1992 when the honoree was pro-choice Catholic, Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

wane.com/dpp/news/local_wane_ft_wayne_no_regrets_from_bishop_on_notre_dame_200905131604_rev1

 

[Jesus_123]

newsinfo.nd.edu/news/11293-president-obama-to-deliver-notre-dames-commencement-address

What is he being honored for?

Great link . . . thanks much . . . !

God’s sweetest and richest blessings be upon Bishop D’Arcy . . .

*“Who hath searched out the wisdom of God that goeth before all things? Wisdom hath been created before all things, and the understanding of prudence from everlasting.” * Ecclesiasticus 1:3-4

Praise God+​

 

[Jesus_123]

You may be interested in some local news coverage in Fort Wayne. It includes short interviews with Bishop D’Arcy. I had forgotten that the bishop also refused to attend in 1992 when the honoree was pro-choice Catholic, Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

wane.com/dpp/news/local_wane_ft_wayne_no_regrets_from_bishop_on_notre_dame_200905131604_rev1

Great link . . . thanks much . . . !

God’s sweetest and richest blessings be upon Bishop D’Arcy . . .

*“Who hath searched out the wisdom of God that goeth before all things? Wisdom hath been created before all things, and the understanding of prudence from everlasting.” * Ecclesiasticus 1:3-4

. . . praise be the Lord Jesus Christ+​

 

[JimG]

Notre Dame says that the are for a free and open discussion of ideas.

But I don’t think you would find them inviting or honoring Fred Phelps, for example.
Or even, Alan Keyes.

No, that would be over the line. Just as they would never have invited George Wallace in his day.

They’ve invited several Presidents, but not, to my knowledge, LBJ (anti-war protests were going on then, that would not sit well with the students), or Nixon (still anti-war protests, plus Watergate.)

But a devoutly pro-abortion president? Well sure. Diversity of ideas and all.

 

[JimG]

The number of bishops now on record as opposed to Obama speaking at ND is now up to 79: lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/may/09050607.html