President Obama to receive honorary degree from Notre Dame

[diggerdomer]

Cutting hairs again? If the University didn’t “allow” the performance then it would not be showing it would it? It is played on the campus isn’t it? You would need permission to produce any show on the campus wouldn’t you? So the University is allowing it to be shown.

What’s your opinion on the reason “The Vagina Monologues” is being allowed to be show on the ND campus as well as on the campuses of other Christians institutions? What value does it have? What were you to learn from it?

If the Gideon Bible group is allowed to give out Bibles on campus (which they did when I was an undergrad at ND) that does not mean, in my opinion, that ND is sponsoring them. Yes the University allows things. That is different than saying the University, as a Catholic institutions, approves such-and-such an event as “Catholic.” E.g. having a non-Catholic professor is not a problem. That doesn’t mean the University endorses non-Catholic teachings. It’s both a University and Catholic.

 

[diggerdomer]

ou cannot, in good conscience, vote for a pro abortion politician. .

I respect your opinion. You’re entitled to it. You are not “non-Catholic” for having that opinion. You can, in good conscience, hold that opinion as a Catholic.

But…it’s not what the Catholic Church requires. If you disagree, please cite some authoritative teaching. It’s not what the U.S. Conference of Bishops teaches, it’s not what the Vatican teaches. They teach you cannot vote for a pro-abortion politician if your intent is to support/promote their views on abortion (or any other intrinsic evil).

 

[diggerdomer]

You cannot disagree with the above and remain in perfect communion with the Catholic Church regarding this issue.

Yes I can. And I do. And so do you, meaning remain in communion, I assume, despite our differences.

If you have any Magisterial teaching to refute this position please share it. You have yet to produce any.

I am not referring to what* one* person thinks, I am asking for something from the universal Church, or Pope Benedict, or a conference of Bishops to support your extreme claim.

The Church has not told me that I could not vote for Obama. The Church has not told me that ND allowing the President of the U.S. to give the commencement address means that ND is now all of a sudden pro-abortion (or whatever other pejorative labels people frequently throw around here so easily).

Individuals can and do think that way. But it’s not required by the Catholic faith to agree with them.

Thanks.

 

[Trader]

You seem to misunderstand the relationship between a Catholic University and the diocesan Bishop.

Personally, if Notre Dame did not in fact consult Bishop D’Arcy beforehand, or communicate their intention, I think it would have been preferable that they did.

Regardless, I don’t see how that would have changed the outcome.

According to Bishop D’Arcy, he was not informed prior to the invitation. Notre Dame leadership already knew how he felt about having pro-abortion politicians as commencement speakers, because it had happened before(in 2004) and the pro-abortion Lt Governor of Indiana was uninvited after consulting with Bishop D’Arcy. Bishop D’Arcy quotes from the 2004 statement of the US Bishop’s Conference. This was not the first time the exact same issue had surfaced. Bishop D’Arcy is in agreement with his fellow bishops on this matter, the administration is not. The outcome would have been different if the university administration wanted to follow the lead of the bishops.
diocesefwsb.org/COMMUNICATIONS/statements.htm

Bishop D’Arcy has also issued statements on the performance of the Vagina Monologues and the “Queer Film Festival”
diocesefwsb.org/COMMUNICATIONS/monologues08.htm

diocesefwsb.org/TODAY/letters.htm

diocesefwsb.org/COMMUNICATIONS/queerfilm.htm

Our bishop has not been asleep at the switch. He truly loves Notre Dame and tried to keep them the great gift to our local and universal church that they could be in both private and public statements. I pray that Bishop D’Arcy’s successor will be as diligent in speaking the truth to an administration that is failing in its responsibilites in leading a catholic university.

I will see Bishop D’Arcy at least five times next week and I am sure the people of our diocese support him on this matter.

 

[diggerdomer]

According to Bishop D’Arcy, he was not informed prior to the invitation. Notre Dame leadership already knew how he felt about having pro-abortion politicians as commencement speakers, because it had happened before(in 2004) and the pro-abortion Lt Governor of Indiana was uninvited after consulting with Bishop D’Arcy. Bishop D’Arcy quotes from the 2004 statement of the US Bishop’s Conference. This was not the first time the exact same issue had surfaced. Bishop D’Arcy is in agreement with his fellow bishops on this matter, the administration is not. The outcome would have been different if the university administration wanted to follow the lead of the bishops.
diocesefwsb.org/COMMUNICATIONS/statements.htm

Bishop D’Arcy has also issued statements on the performance of the Vagina Monologues and the “Queer Film Festival”
diocesefwsb.org/COMMUNICATIONS/monologues08.htm

diocesefwsb.org/TODAY/letters.htm

diocesefwsb.org/COMMUNICATIONS/queerfilm.htm

Our bishop has not been asleep at the switch. He truly loves Notre Dame and tried to keep them the great gift to our local and universal church that they could be in both private and public statements. I pray that Bishop D’Arcy’s successor will be as diligent in speaking the truth to an administration that is failing in its responsibilites in leading a catholic university.

I will see Bishop D’Arcy at least five times next week and I am sure the people of our diocese support him on this matter.

I support Bishop D’Arcy’s position and action on this matter.

I also believe that both he and the University are “in agreement with fellow bishops” IF by this you mean what the USCCB as a Conference has written.

 

[Highwayhound]

I support Bishop D’Arcy’s position and action on this matter.

I also believe that both he and the University are “in agreement with fellow bishops” IF by this you mean what the USCCB as a Conference has written.

Does sitting on the fence hurt?

The Catholic Church has had enough scandals in recent years. Supporting and honoring a pro-death politician such as Barack Obama is one we did not need. To bring upon ourselves is the heigth of foolishness.

One cannot support abortion by supporting those that support abortion and at the same time state their opposition to abortion. It makes no sense.

The Golden Dome is tarnished

God bless

 

[Trader]

I support Bishop D’Arcy’s position and action on this matter.

I also believe that both he and the University are “in agreement with fellow bishops” IF by this you mean what the USCCB as a Conference has written.

"I have in mind also the statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops in 2004. “The Catholic community and Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles. They should not be given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest support for their actions.”’

One of our fundamental moral principles is the protection of innocent human life from conception to natural death. Mr Obama, as President, US Senator, and Illinois State Senator has consistently acted in defiance of that principle in supporting unlimited abortion rights and voting in committee against a state bill to require medical treatment for infants born alive during an abortion. When the bill came to the floor, Mr Obama voted present.

Notre Dame has chosen to give Mr Obama an honorary law degree and a platform to speak unopposed at this year’s commencement. Just today I heard that this decision was made without even consulting the dean of the Notre Dame School of Law, which presumably awards such degrees. The dean is pro-life and has been the guest of honor at our annual Red Mass in Fort Wayne.

I don’t see how a reasonable person would conclude that the university was in agreement with the bishops’ statement of 2004 quoted above by Bishop D’Arcy.

 

[diggerdomer]

"I have in mind also the statement of the U.S. Catholic Bishops in 2004. “The Catholic community and Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles. They should not be given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest support for their actions.”’

One of our fundamental moral principles is the protection of innocent human life from conception to natural death. Mr Obama, as President, US Senator, and Illinois State Senator has consistently acted in defiance of that principle in supporting unlimited abortion rights and voting in committee against a state bill to require medical treatment for infants born alive during an abortion. When the bill came to the floor, Mr Obama voted present.

Notre Dame has chosen to give Mr Obama an honorary law degree and a platform to speak unopposed at this year’s commencement. Just today I heard that this decision was made without even consulting the dean of the Notre Dame School of Law, which presumably awards such degrees. The dean is pro-life and has been the guest of honor at our annual Red Mass in Fort Wayne.

I don’t see how a reasonable person would conclude that the university was in agreement with the bishops’ statement of 2004 quoted above by Bishop D’Arcy.

I don’t view the President speaking at commencement and receiving an honorary degree as indicative that Notre Dame supports abortion. I think anyone concluding such a thing is really misinformed. Although, I do recognize that many Catholic do not support the President, and that’s fine.

In light of the 2004 statement, obviously some Catholics construe ND’s action as endorsing the President’s views on abortion, and other Catholics don’t. Both views are acceptable, according to what the USCCB teaches.

 

[magdelaine]

I don’t view the President speaking at commencement and receiving an honorary degree as indicative that Notre Dame supports abortion.

In honoring Obama, Notre Dame *is *supporting the actions of someone who brazenly denies legal protection and recourse to human beings, nascent, born and otherwise. That’s why Catholic colleges shouldn’t do it.

In light of the 2004 statement, obviously some Catholics construe ND’s action as endorsing the President’s views on abortion, and other Catholics don’t. Both views are acceptable, according to what the USCCB teaches.

I’m sure glad I don’t belong to the church of the USCCB.

But seriously… you can keep repeating that to yourself if you want. You can try clicking your heels together too; that may actually make what you are saying true.

 

[diggerdomer]

I
I’m sure glad I don’t belong to the church of the USCCB.

I’m not glad, as you are. I’m sorry you are apparently not in communion with the Catholic Bishops of the U.S., if you indeed do not agree with their teaching. I do.

 

[magdelaine]

Diggerdomer, it seems the president of the USCCB has some thoughts on inviting Obama to ND:

Speaking as the head of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, this weekend Cardinal Francis George of Chicago said that the University of Notre Dame’s decision to host and honor President Obama at their commencement ceremony this year was an “extreme embarrassment” to Catholics.

“Whatever else is clear, it is clear that Notre Dame didn’t understand what it means to be Catholic when they issued this invitation,” George told the crowd at a conference Saturday on the Vatican document Dignitatis Personae.

overheardinthesacristy.net/?p=3458

Do you agree or disagree with him?

 

[diggerdomer]

Diggerdomer, it seems the president of the USCCB has some thoughts on inviting Obama to ND:

overheardinthesacristy.net/?p=3458

Do you agree or disagree with him?

Thanks. I did not know that Cardinal George had spoken on this matter yet. I appreciate your bringing it to my attention. His remarks are, of course, important and valuable to me, as are all remarks by Bishops.

Personally, I disagree with some of what he says. I don’t think having the President of the U.S. give the commencement address is an embarrassment. But, I accept that many (including Cardinal George) do. I’m ok with that. Cardinal George is not teaching me that I have to agree with his thought that it’s an embarrassment.

I appreciate how the article noted that Cardinal George noted that he “does not have jurisdiction or authority over other bishops.”

Thanks, again, for bringing this to our attention. I appreciate it.

 

[diggerdomer]

Oops! Sorry! I somehow posted before I was done…

I also meant to note that I am grateful for other parts of Cardinal George’s remarks, as quoted by the link referenced:

However, Cardinal George emphasized that the U.S. presidency “is an office that deserves some respect, no matter who is holding it,” and said that Notre Dame would not disinvite the president, since “you just don’t do that (disinvite the president of the United States).” According to the cardinal requests to revoke the invitation would fall on deaf ears, but he also observed that there is legitimate potential to organize some form of protest at the ceremony.
“You have to sit back and get past the immediate moral outrage and say, ‘Now what’s the best thing to do in these circumstances?’” said the Cardinal.
“I can assure you the bishops are doing that.”
Cardinal George is the ninth U.S. bishop to speak out against the scandal.

Thank goodness for his leadership.

 

[magdelaine]

Thank goodness for his leadership.

I agree with you here!

 

[elts1956]

Yes I can. And I do. And so do you, meaning remain in communion, I assume, despite our differences.

If you have any Magisterial teaching to refute this position please share it. You have yet to produce any.

I am not referring to what* one* person thinks, I am asking for something from the universal Church, or Pope Benedict, or a conference of Bishops to support your extreme claim.

Show me exactly where Pope Benedict XVI says it is okay for a Catholic to vote for a pro abortion candidate for other issues. I told you what I have found and I absolutely believe my understanding is in accordance with Church teaching.
The Church has not told me that I could not vote for Obama. You are right, the Church hasn’t said that. It HAS said it is wrong to support abortion. By voting for Obama, (depending on your mindset), you have either directly, or indirectly given support to abortion. In other words, you are more pro abortion than pro life.The Church has not told me that ND allowing the President of the U.S. to give the commencement address means that ND is now all of a sudden pro-abortion (or whatever other pejorative labels people frequently throw around here so easily). I am more sure there are more students and faculty at ND that have a lessez faire attitude about abortion than the faithful few who do not. How could they not, unless they have had a strong Catholic education from someone who doesn’t put up with nonsense. If there are not more lazy Catholics at ND than those committed to the Faith, Jenkins would not have felt comfortable inviting bo to give the commencement address. With the attitudes of faculty members such as Jenkins, I think Notre Dame should drop the name Catholic until it rectifys it’s conscience.
Individuals can and do think that way. But it’s not required by the Catholic faith to agree with them.

Thanks.

 

[diggerdomer]

Thanks.

It will be interesting to see what if anything gets posted on the USCCB web site. So far nothing regarding this whole issue has been posted.

 

[diggerdomer]

I agree with you here!

Thanks.

It will be interesting to see what, if anything, gets posted on the USCCB web site. Despite the alleged comments from Cardinal George to a local diocesan group, along with other Bishops comments about this…I find it interesting that nothing has been communicated from the USCCB one way or another.

 

[elts1956]

Thanks.

It will be interesting to see what, if anything, gets posted on the USCCB web site. Despite the alleged comments from Cardinal George to a local diocesan group, along with other Bishops comments about this…I find it interesting that nothing has been communicated from the USCCB one way or another.

And this is a surprise to you???

 

[diggerdomer]

elts1956:
I’m having a hard time knowing what to respond to given the format of your message, so please excuse me and correct me if I misinterpret something you said. It’s just confusing.

Pope Benedict: Nope. I’m only saying that the US Bishops do not require Catholics to vote for a candidate based only on his/her position on abortion. I am not aware of any statements Benedict XVI made regarding the U.S. 2008 elections, so if you know of something he wrote/taught that you would like me to respond to then, please, help me by sharing it.

You are free to think I am more pro-abortion than pro-life. I would never in my wildest dreams accuse you of such a thing, given how important the pro-life issues are to Catholics. But, again, you are free to think whatever you want regardless of facts.

You must know more than I do, based on personal experience, to categorize so many of the students, faculty, and staff at Notre Dame the way you do. Given your obvious personal knowledge of their lives, souls, and faith, I can only say that I will certainly continue to keep them in my prayers. My goodness, from the picture you paint, which must of course be based on personal knowledge (otherwise what would distinguish it from mere libel and slander?), they certainly need all the help they can get.

Given the reality you portray, which of course is reality, because you say so, I am confident that the University will indeed drop its “Catholic” title, even though Bishop D’Arcy has never hinted or asked this, based on your astute assessment of the situation.

Thank you again for your help in understanding this simple issue.

 

[diggerdomer]

And this is a surprise to you???

Yes.

So many seem to think that it’s “obvious” Notre Dame is violating what the USCCB taught, I would expect that if this were true the USCCB would say so.

I don’t think it’s true.

I wish the USCCB would prove me wrong, but so far they haven’t