President Obama to receive honorary degree from Notre Dame

[bbarrick8383]

Roe vs Wade has caused a lot of damage. It’s killed multi-millions. And it was/were the Republicans that stuck it to us. And now they’re pretending to want it overturned. Yeh, right. Talk is cheap if you don’t suggest alternatives.

What do you do, democrats and republican politicians are too crooked to trust. Even the judges for that matter. I’m a republican, only for the conservative few left in the party.

 

[aicirt]

The problem is you do not know how to protect them. You still offer no solution, just more of the same rhetoric that continues to fill the airwaves. You do not offer an understanding of what you think causes abortions and therefore, you cannot offer a solution that would be helpful. My post is illogical to you because you refuse to understand and address all the causes that lead to an intrinsic evil. If you do not take care of the causes of intrinsic evil then you cannot stop the intrinsic evil.
What is the fullest extent that you propose to protect them?

May I ask how many women do you know who have had abortions? What were the reasons? How many men do you know who have had their child aborted? Ever ask them what their feelings were about the woman who aborted the child or what feelings they may have had for the child?

 

[Luis_Santiago]

Luis, it is YOU who have miscommunicated and you’ve just apologized for it.

I made a statement that could be interpreted two different ways. You interpreted it the way that wasn’t how I meant it. I apologized. Yes, that is what happened.

In stating, many posts ago, that you can’t accept the value of newly conceived life as equal to the life of an in-utero, close-to-term baby, it is YOU that has deviated from Church Teaching.

I admit that, and I gave my reasons several times already. I don’t believe there are many Catholics who believe every single teaching of the Church. This can’t be the Church’s most important teaching, or else it would have been in the doctrine since well before the 19th century.

I think adoption is the only real solution to this. Why isn’t this mentioned more often by politicians? I would have been more than happy to have my taxes go to adoption but then none of the politicians would go for it.
bbarrick8383;5038517:

I agree completely. We should steer them from the abortion road to the adoption road as quickly as possible. But making abortion 100 percent illegal is going to be a long hard fight.

Adoption is a good solution in the United States for people of European descent. Most people who want to adopt want children that look like they could be theirs biologically. But for black children and hispanic children, that isn’t as good of a solution. Also, there are adoption programs but you don’t hear about them as much because there is no controversy there.

Not sure what you are referring to on how it relates to the post you replied to. However, what are calling minor, the million plus killed per year in this country?

I am only saying that by opposing everyone because nobody lives up to your high expectations, you won’t be able to accomplish very much.

 

[Ronald_E]

Where is the fear derived from? The process of the abortion? The process of having a child? Fear of her environment, globally and locally? There are so many cases of abortion, for so many different reason.

Most women who get pregnant go through a slew of emotions, even the ones who have every intention of bringing this child into their life, they tend to make bad choices based on feelings, whether it is anger or fear. My wife, pregnant with my second child slapped the heck out of me one day driving down the road, nothing more than a normal dispute and she did something she has never done and would never do under different circumstances. It was not a major argument, something typical and we might fight 2 or 3 times a year.

If every woman/girl who got pregnant and wished to abort, had to sit down with a pastor, had to view an ultra-sound and had to get counseling from a pro-life counselor, I think they would change their mind. But it’s hard to have that happen with thugs like planned parenthood running around.

I agree. Pregnancy creates a tremendous change in the neurobiology and hormonal balance of the woman. It is something so complicated by the genetic history and gene expression, family of origin environment and its influence on gene expression, social environment and its influence on gene expression and whether or not the woman was valued and safe so that she can begin to understand the gift of life and love she is to this world as a creation of God.
If that does not happen then you will have the beginning of a chemistry of distress that will dominate the developing female and it will create an internal sense of underlying anxiety throughout her life no matter how well adjusted she may appear.
Women have a larger limbic system than men. That is the part of the brain that is instinctive and contains the emotional and survival instincts to react to what is safe or dangerous.
Within that brain are seven clearly distinct neuropathways that can be identified as rage, fear, separation distress, nurturing, lust, fun and drive. When there is a consistent stress in the mother’s life the child will not have the secure and loving attachment that keeps everything developing in a balanced way. Also within the limbic brain is the amygdala which is related to fight or flight and social learning. Then spread throughout the brain are mirror neurons that reflect the external environment inwardly to the pre-motor cortex, the motor cortex, the amygdala and sets up an emotional response with every human being we encounter. This emotional response begins to be hardwired into the brain while the child is in the womb and continues after birth. By the time we are 3 years of age we will have an emotional sense of who we are and where we fit in unless things change that will influence us to have a new learning.
By the time we are 24 our total emotional response is set. The proteins that create this emotional learning then decrease greatly at this age and consequently, new emotional learning is extremely difficult unless one is able to have the right nutrition and/or medication or a human being that through the Grace of God becomes a source of love and security. God’s Grace alone can accomplish this task as was my case.
There is too much to share on this matter.

 

[catharina]

1. I made a statement that could be interpreted two different ways. You interpreted it the way that wasn’t how I meant it. I apologized. Yes, that is what happened.
2. I admit that, and I gave my reasons several times already. I don’t believe there are many Catholics who believe every single teaching of the Church. 3. This can’t be the Church’s most important teaching, or else it would have been in the doctrine since well before the 19th century.

1. I interpreted your statement AS WRITTEN. You say you meant something else.
2. Perhaps in your own life, there are not many Catholics who believe all the teachings.
   If that’s the case, it’s regretable - and NOT to be emulated.
3. As a mechanized, assembly-line industry of abortion grows, teaching is re-emphasized.

You’ve likened your objections to Galileo’s. IMO, any similarity is very unlikely.

 

[elts1956]

Mapleoak, What I am saying is that we have to deal with the present reality with intelligence rather than outrage. We cannot get stuck on the honorary degree thing, that is nothing and takes our attention away from a golden opportunity to deepen his understanding of Christ. Nobody converts through protests that are motivated by outrage. Did you see the film Joy Noel about a true incident in WW I when the Allies and Germans stopped killing one another at a certain front in the war. It was Christmas and a priest said Mass and gave communion when all sides celebrated our Lord’s birth together.

That is the power of our faith in which God creates and gives us opportunities everyday of our lives to transform into His Will and not ours.

It is my understanding the POTUS is going to give a commencement address. This is not dialolgue. So how will it be possible for bo to converse, dialogue, be converted in his beiefs at this time? Oh right. He will see that halo above Jenkins head.

 

[Ronald_E]

elts1956:
It is my understanding the POTUS is going to give a commencement address. This is not dialolgue. So how will it be possible for bo to converse, dialogue, be converted in his beiefs at this time? Oh right. He will see that halo above Jenkins head.
Elts, I am communicating with sincerity and you communicate with sarcasm rather than offering a charitable response and solution. All the students have to do is compose an open letter to the president thanking him for accepting the invitation to speak and also the students understand that the he is to receive an honorary law degree from the university.

The letter would continue to point out that this honorary degree is being awarded to him without the consultation of the students. Consequently, the value system of the students in relationship to the sanctity of the unborn children who will die as a result of his pro-choice position is being disrespected by the administration’s decision to ignore this most important aspect of their Catholic Christian faith.

The letter would then proceed to ask the president to meet with the administration and the student body the day before commencement in a town hall type of communication to address the differences in views of the sanctity of human life and present proposals to remedy the crisis of the mothers and their unborn children.

An alternative would also propose that if he does not meet with the students the day before he could address their conflict at the podium at commencement and reject receiving the honorary degree in order to express his deep respect for the students and Catholic value for the sanctity of life beginning at conception.

This could be sent to the Washington Post, the administration, the bishops, the pope and last but not least the president.

 

[Luis_Santiago]

Here is part of a speech that Barack Obama gave in which he addressed abortion:
Barack Obama:

This brings me to my second point. Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God’s will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all.

Now this is going to be difficult for some who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, as many evangelicals do. But in a pluralistic democracy, we have no choice. Politics depends on our ability to persuade each other of common aims based on a common reality. It involves the compromise, the art of what’s possible. At some fundamental level, religion does not allow for compromise. It’s the art of the impossible. If God has spoken, then followers are expected to live up to God’s edicts, regardless of the consequences. To base one’s life on such uncompromising commitments may be sublime, but to base our policy making on such commitments would be a dangerous thing. And if you doubt that, let me give you an example.

We all know the story of Abraham and Isaac. Abraham is ordered by God to offer up his only son, and without argument, he takes Isaac to the mountaintop, binds him to an altar, and raises his knife, prepared to act as God has commanded.

Of course, in the end God sends down an angel to intercede at the very last minute, and Abraham passes God’s test of devotion.

But it’s fair to say that if any of us leaving this church saw Abraham on a roof of a building raising his knife, we would, at the very least, call the police and expect the Department of Children and Family Services to take Isaac away from Abraham. We would do so because we do not hear what Abraham hears, do not see what Abraham sees, true as those experiences may be. So the best we can do is act in accordance with those things that we all see, and that we all hear, be it common laws or basic reason.

You can see the whole thing here, it’s worth the read. If Obama were to give a speech or engage in dialogue regarding abortion, this is a good indication of what he would say.

 

[catharina]

Here is part of a speech that Barack Obama gave in which he addressed abortion:

You can see the whole thing here, it’s worth the read. If Obama were to give a speech or engage in dialogue regarding abortion, this is a good indication of what he would say.

Obama already spoke (in a nutshell) re his views of abortion.
He considers matters concerning the beginning of new life to be above his “pay-grade.”
IOW, much like your own view: who REALLY knows and anyway who cares?

To him, it’s a matter of no signigicance or consequence -
although 50million have died here in this nation alone.

 

[Luis_Santiago]

Obama already spoke (in a nutshell) re his views of abortion.
He considers matters concerning the beginning of new life to be above his “pay-grade.”
IOW, much like your own view: who REALLY knows and anyway who cares?

To him, it’s a matter of no signigicance or consequence -
although 50million have died here in this nation alone.

Did you read any of that? I doubt it. You’d rather your mental image of Obama be based on a handful of sound bites taken out of context, I suppose.

 

[catharina]

Did you read any of that? I doubt it. You’d rather your mental image of Obama be based on a handful of sound bites taken out of context, I suppose.

Continue to suppose whatever you wish.
It seems to be your central, driving habit.

I suppose that Obama has more than the standard ration of ambivalence re abortion.
His parents married 3 months after his conception.

His mother adhered to no known religious values; ditto for HER parents.
Considering her value system and that of her parents, it’s not a stretch to think
that if he’d been conceived ten yrs later, it’s doubtful that he’d had lived to be born.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1729524-3,00.html

On Feb. 2, 1961, several months after they met, Obama’s parents got married in Maui, according to divorce records. It was a Thursday. At that point, Ann was three months pregnant with Barack Obama II. Friends did not learn of the wedding until afterward. “Nobody was invited,” says Abercrombie. The motivations behind the marriage remain a mystery, even to Obama. “I never probed my mother about the details. Did they decide to get married because she was already pregnant? Or did he propose to her in the traditional, formal way?” Obama wonders. “I suppose, had she not passed away, I would have asked more.”

PS - fyi, I feel tremendous pity for Obama. He was raised with no sense of the Holy.

 

[Trader]

Just for a change of pace I thought I would post something that had to do with Notre Dame.

I spoke with Bishop D’Arcy after mass today and gave him the hug one poster wanted to give him. He has now received more than 30,000 letters, phone calls, and e-mails on this subject. Whle the bishop is concerned about the direction Notre Dame has taken in recent years, more than 70% of his contacts with ND alumni are supporting hm rather than the university administration. Clearly, not everyone to matriculate under the golden dome has lost the faith. diocesefwsb.org/TODAY/

If you would like to exress your opinion please use the communications office:
diocesefwsb.org/COMMUNICATIONS/staff.htm

Notre Dame rose to national prominence in the 1920’s because of their football team and the stand they took against the racial and religious bigotry of the Ku Klux Klan. They did not invite the Imperial Wizard to be a commencement speaker and to receive an honorary degree, even though the Governor of Indiana was a KKK member.

In the 1960’s Notre Dame had some great football teams and was at the forefront of the civil rights movement. They did not invite George Wallace to be the commencement speaker and receive an award.

Today, when the right to life itself is under attack, the university decided to invite someone who promised to sign FOCA as the first thing he would do in office to be a commencement speaker and receive an honorary degree. Also, the football team is not very good.

 

[catharina]

Trader, thank you for the report from Bishop D’arcy. Very good news.

Re Obama at Notre Dame, while I pity Obama for the poverty of faith in his upbringing,
I will not and could never support the idea that he, Obama, should be presented
to new graduates as a role model or honored dignitary at ANY Catholic university.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Here is part of a speech that Barack Obama gave in which he addressed abortion:

You can see the whole thing here, it’s worth the read. If Obama were to give a speech or engage in dialogue regarding abortion, this is a good indication of what he would say.

Im going to assume that was part of a written speach, right? I pay about as much attention to those as I do the Oscars. I guage a person based on what they say, unscripted, and the history of their actions.

It’s a fact that he said that he did not want his daughters punished with a child. As a father, a child is far from punishment, regardless of the age of the parents. They are blessings, sometimes they just come at a time least expected. So it would be safe to assume that if his daughters did become pregnant before he wanted them to, he would request that they abort the child.

The atrocities of allowing a child to die in a hospital laundry room, to me is just unforgivable. Those who had the power to save a babies life, yet let it die in a dark room on its own, have commited the highest crime possible to man. They had the ability to protect a living human being, innocent, cold, hungry and tired. Unable to take care of itself. Those lawmakers in the state of illinois, the people who wrapped the child up and watched it die, the parent(s) and their families most of all…allowed their own blood to die.

Its a shame.

 

[mapleoak]

I am only saying that by opposing everyone because nobody lives up to your high expectations, you won’t be able to accomplish very much.

You didn’t answer the question.
And no, it is not unreasonable or a lofty expectation to strive for a society in which it is not legal for citizens to kill each other.

 

[mapleoak]

Adoption is a good solution in the United States for people of European descent. Most people who want to adopt want children that look like they could be theirs biologically. But for black children and hispanic children, that isn’t as good of a solution.

What is this statistic based on. My experience with adoptees and adopters is much different. An example, one family here has eight adopted children, four are vietnemese, three from China with two being severly disabled, and two from Guatemala.

 

[mapleoak]

Here is part of a speech that Barack Obama gave in which he addressed abortion:

You can see the whole thing here, it’s worth the read. If Obama were to give a speech or engage in dialogue regarding abortion, this is a good indication of what he would say.

Amazing how with one hand he can write something like that while the other hand is so eager to sign the FOCA bill.
He is basically saying “Do as I say, not as I do”.

 

[RobbyS]

Here is part of a speech that Barack Obama gave in which he addressed abortion:

You can see the whole thing here, it’s worth the read. If Obama were to give a speech or engage in dialogue regarding abortion, this is a good indication of what he would say.

The key passage, I think, is here.

*Even those who claim the Bible’s inerrancy make distinctions between Scriptural edicts, sensing that some passages - the Ten Commandments, say, or a belief in Christ’s divinity - are central to Christian faith, while others are more culturally specific and may be modified to accommodate modern life.

The American people intuitively understand this, which is why the majority of Catholics practice birth control and some of those opposed to gay marriage nevertheless are opposed to a Constitutional amendment to ban it. Religious leadership need not accept such wisdom in counseling their flocks, but they should recognize this wisdom in their politics.*

I don’t think he sees that the issue of abortion does not lend itself to accomodation as birth control arguably does. Indeed, it shows the dangers of accommodation to legal contraception and to legalized sodomy. They beg the question why they were outlawed in the first place. It has to do with the broader question of whether unbridled sexual behavior canbe tolerated by any society. Obama is NOT going to have that discussion, because it is not simply a political one. He and Catholics are talking past one another, but he is pretending to be the reasonable one, here.

 

[Luis_Santiago]

What is this statistic based on. My experience with adoptees and adopters is much different. An example, one family here has eight adopted children, four are vietnemese, three from China with two being severly disabled, and two from Guatemala.

Sure, there’s the occasional family like the one you mentioned, and if they have it in their heart to adopt that many unwanted children, they are truly exemplars of Christianity. There are a lot of children in foster care that I’m sure would love to be adopted.

 

[RobbyS]

Sure, there’s the occasional family like the one you mentioned, and if they have it in their heart to adopt that many unwanted children, they are truly exemplars of Christianity. There are a lot of children in foster care that I’m sure would love to be adopted.

Ihave the feeling that when theystart tailor-making babies, they will mostly be blond-haired and blue-eyes.