Presidential Election Poll 10-2-2012

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The uranium stockpile is under constant surveilance. The IAEA has concluded that they’re not weaponizing uranium, as did the 2011 NIE.
Not a threat to attack.
It was ruled by people like Stalin who literally killed his own citizens.
No, sanctions affect everyone. No trade means whatever they were trading to get before they now no longer have. This means food supplies go way down, and that affects innocent civilians.
I am not in favor of charging into a war with Iran. It won’t be like fighting Iraq or the Taliban. They could kill a lot of Americans.

However, I think it is foolhardy to believe the lies of Iran, and cscorpio has a point.

Even though Lenin was brutal, the Russians in the final say, were not interested in nuclear mutual-assured destruction, they were interested in being a dominant force in exporting marxism.

Iranian leadership thinks that God is telling them to build up their military in preparation to attack Israel and eventually the West and they are fanatical enough to sacrifice their people and the Palestinians do it.

That’s the difference.
 
I am not in favor of charging into a war with Iran. It won’t be like fighting Iraq or the Taliban. They could kill a lot of Americans.

However, I think it is foolhardy to believe the lies of Iran, and cscorpio has a point.

Even though Lenin was brutal, the Russians in the final say, were not interested in nuclear mutual-assured destruction, they were interested in being a dominant force in exporting marxism.

Iranian leadership thinks that God is telling them to build up their military in preparation to attack Israel and eventually the West and they are fanatical enough to sacrifice their people and the Palestinians do it.

That’s the difference.
The Iranian government consists of Muslim extremists who literally think the Crusades never ended. So long as the infidels of the West walk the face of the Earth …
 
The Iranian government consists of Muslim extremists who literally think the Crusades never ended. So long as the infidels of the West walk the face of the Earth …
General Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff: “We are of the opinion that the Iranian regime is a rational actor.” (Global Public Square, Martin Dempsey on Syria, Iran and China; February 17, 2012)
Israel Defense Forces Chief of General Staff, Maj. Gen. Benny Gantz: “I think the Iranian leadership is composed of very rational people.” (CS Monitor, Israeli Army Chief says he doubts Iran will build a nuclear weapon; April 25, 2012)
original.antiwar.com/christian-stork/2012/09/27/the-complete-idiots-guide-to-iran-and-the-bomb-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-facts/

MAD applies.
 
Nor has the United States or Israel discovered any site devoted to the building of nuclear weapons. The deep-underground facility at Fordow is enriching uranium to 20%. There are no reports of any enrichment to 90%, which is weapons grade.
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has lately mocked the idea of Iran building a bomb in the face of a U.S. commitment to go to war to prevent it: “Let’s even imagine that we have an atomic weapon, a nuclear weapon. What would we do with it? What intelligent person would fight 5,000 American bombs with one bomb?
There are the fatwas by the ayatollahs against nuclear weapons and the consensus by 16 U.S. intelligence agencies in 2007, reaffirmed in 2011, that Iran has no nuclear weapons program.
original.antiwar.com/buchanan/2012/10/08/is-a-nuclear-deal-with-iran-possible/

Before we even think about attacking Iran, let’s try proving that they’re even making the weapons in the first place.

This is Iraq all over again . . .
 
It is a strawman because I mentioned the TSA, Romneycare, the Patriot Act, sanctions against Iran, NDAA, etc. It’s a strawman when you only deal with 1 of those issues and ridicule that 1 issue as being irrelevant compared to abortion.

By the way, if Romney cares so much about abortion, then why has he already said that he’s not going to defund Planned Parenthood? It’s immoral and unconstitutional, so why isn’t he going to do anything about it?
Romney is going to nominate justices who will overturn Roe V Wade - the law which ensures that states with a pro-life majority - i.e. Republican dominated states - cannot pass laws to protect the unborn. Romney would help allow pro-life states protect the unborn. If that is not good enough for you, then vote for Virgil Goode or the guy you think will shut down the horrific TSA which is apparently a more important issue for you than saving the unborn.

Ishii
 
He doesn’t want to defund Planned Parenthood. No one has proved that Iran is even making nuclear weapons…
As I said before, Romney would try to overturn Roe V Wade. If the congress defunded PP would Romney sign or veto? I’m thinking he’d sign. Iran on the other hand is aggresively trying to enrich uranium to build nuclear weapons. The fact that you trust the word of radical Islamicists in charge of Iran more but don’t trust a decent man like Romney tells a great deal your mindset.
MAD prevented nuclear holocaust with Russia for many years, and they were a much greater threat than Iran is…
You don’t understand the history of MAD and you don’t understand the nature of radical Islam. The Russians were rational: they didn’t want to die. They didn’t believe a religion that promised a thousand virgins in heaven for anyone who kills people through terrorist suicide attacks. Can’t say the same about Iran.

Ishii
 
As I said before, Romney would try to overturn Roe V Wade. If the congress defunded PP would Romney sign or veto? I’m thinking he’d sign. Iran on the other hand is aggresively trying to enrich uranium to build nuclear weapons. The fact that you trust the word of radical Islamicists in charge of Iran more but don’t trust a decent man like Romney tells a great deal your mindset.

You don’t understand the history of MAD and you don’t understand the nature of radical Islam. The Russians were rational: they didn’t want to die. They didn’t believe a religion that promised a thousand virgins in heaven for anyone who kills people through terrorist suicide attacks. Can’t say the same about Iran.

Ishii
See if you still think he’s not lying:

video.msnbc.msn.com/the-last-word/49352785
 
original.antiwar.com/buchanan/2012/10/08/is-a-nuclear-deal-with-iran-possible/

Before we even think about attacking Iran, let’s try proving that they’re even making the weapons in the first place.

This is Iraq all over again . . .
Do you own stock in antiwar.com or something? Sheesh!

What about the Iranian fatwa? As you’ve pointed out in previous posts, the 2007 NIE stated the Iranian nuclear weapons program (that never existed) ended in 2003.

What year did Khameni issue the fatwa, and if that is the case, why did Iran have secret enrichment facilities afterwards.

It is also at odds with other intelligence agencies, and the IAEA itself:
The Wall Street Journal Europe reported on July 30 that Germany’s foreign intelligence agency, the BND, “has amassed evidence of a sophisticated Iranian nuclear weapons program that continued beyond 2003. This usually classified information comes courtesy of Germany’s highest state-security court. In a 30-page legal opinion on March 26 and a May 27 press release in a case about possible illegal trading with Iran, a special national security panel of the Federal Supreme Court in Karlsruhe cites from a May 2008 BND report, saying the agency ‘showed comprehensively’ that ‘development work on nuclear weapons can be observed in Iran even after 2003.’”
The 2007 NIE also contradicts the findings of the usually hypercautious IAEA, which concluded in a recent analysis that Iran “has sufficient information to be able to design and produce a workable implosion nuclear device.” The word “implosion” is especially significant because it means Iran is likely seeking to design a warhead compact enough to be fitted atop one of its increasingly capable ballistic missiles.
online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471504574447412969599476.html

I don’t favor attacking Iran (and I’m an Iraq vet), but to claim there is nothing going in Iran, or that it doesn’t deserve our attention is blindness.
 
Romney didn’t overturn Roe V Wade as governor? :rotfl:

Dude, do you not understand that governors do not nominate justices to the US supreme court? Its the president who nominates supreme court justices. Robert Bork is advising Romney on which justices to nominate as president. Do you know who Robert Bork is? His nomination to supreme court was blocked by Democrats because… they knew he would vote to overturn Roe V Wade.
I understand that governors do not have the power to overturn federal legislation - I should have worded my sentence better. What I meant to convey is that Romney did not appear to take any great strides toward fighting the Roe vs. Wade decision. Fighting an ideology with which one strongly disagrees is not confined to merely waiting for a proposal to be placed in front of you and then choosing whether or not to sign it into law. Though he cannot as governor reverse federal law, he could have at the very least authored or sponsored any anti-Roe vs Wade bills which could be formally presented to Congress.

Let’s be clear. Everyone has the right to change their minds on issues, and perhaps Romney’s “evolved and deepened” views on abortion are genuine, despite his history of waffling on the subject. However, voters should seek candidates who have been consistent in their beliefs, and have actually made personal efforts to see those beliefs realized, for this is the best measure of sincerity. Past records are very important to the public to consider for one who is running for a position so powerful as that of the US president, and the fact that Romney has little anti-abortion work to his name and yet is now strongly vocalizing his support for overturning Roe vs Wade precisely at a time when the support of the Christian Right is crucial for his win happens to make me a bit suspicious of the veracity of his conviction.
Provide a link to a site that isn’t an untrustworthy left-wing blog and I just might look at it. Which country is threatening Iran so that it would want a nuclear weapon?
Here you go: washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-ahmadinejad-really-say-israel-should-be-wiped-off-the-map/2011/10/04/gIQABJIKML_blog.html

The other link I provided does seem to be a pretty “leftist” website, but it does show an interview in which Israeli Deputy Prime Minister himself admitted it. YouTube had a video of the interview, which has since been removed, but I’m sure you could find another. .
I don’t know. It is common knowlege, however, that Iran is a state supporter of terrorists. Do you think its a good idea for terrorist supporting countries to have nuclear weapons?
That’s an interesting question. But I’d go too far-off the subject of the thread if I were to discuss terrorism and the right to obtain nuclear weapons. It’s a good topic for another thread, though!
What I mean, is that an Iranian attempt to “wipe Israel off the map” by nuclear weapons would mean another Jewish holocaust. I can understand Jews not wanting to let Iran getting a nuclear weapon.
I think this view is repeated as pre-emptive hysteria which is used to entice the United States into an action which (while certainly benefitting Israel by removing an adversary) will not benefit us in any way. (Please don’t think that I’m calling *you *hysterical – in the first place, you are not the only person who suggests this, and the hysteria I refer to is more along the lines of the Chicken Little “The sky is falling!” belief that disaster is imminent unless we use immediate force. I don’t think that is the case.)

But in any event, I don’t think Romney’s utmost duty or responsibility is to a foreign nation or ethnicity (let’s not forget the country he wants to govern is not in the middle east). So even if the assertation of a supposed holocaust were true (which I doubt), I don’t see why that would require the money and lives of American people. Sometimes it’s OK to remain neutral and allow other nations to resolve conflict on their own.
original.antiwar.com/buchanan/2012/10/08/is-a-nuclear-deal-with-iran-possible/

Before we even think about attacking Iran, let’s try proving that they’re even making the weapons in the first place.

This is Iraq all over again . . .
I thought Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction were moved?😉 You know what though, at least we have a better idea of what Iran is up to - after all, at least they have signed the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
 
Do you own stock in antiwar.com or something? Sheesh!

What about the Iranian fatwa? As you’ve pointed out in previous posts, the 2007 NIE stated the Iranian nuclear weapons program (that never existed) ended in 2003.

What year did Khameni issue the fatwa, and if that is the case, why did Iran have secret enrichment facilities afterwards.

It is also at odds with other intelligence agencies, and the IAEA itself:

online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471504574447412969599476.html

I don’t favor attacking Iran (and I’m an Iraq vet), but to claim there is nothing going in Iran, or that it doesn’t deserve our attention is blindness.
The IAEA also reported that Iran has no nuclear weapon development program.
A recent example of such deliberate obfuscation was the IAEA report on Iran from August 30, 2012. Typical American media accounts highlighted the increase in Iran’s nuclear infrastructure (underground centrifuge production, etc.), while failing to mention that their stockpile of 20%-enriched uranium—the only material capable of being enriched further to 85% or weapons grade—had actually diminished as a result of conversion to fuel plates for use in the Tehran Research Reactor, which produces medical isotopes. Thus nuclear development is highlighted, under the false premise that that equals progress toward a weapon, while exculpatory evidence is discarded: a case study in how news and propaganda function.
original.antiwar.com/christian-stork/2012/09/27/the-complete-idiots-guide-to-iran-and-the-bomb-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-facts/

Yes, it’s still antiwar.com. It’s a good source, so I’ll continue to use it.
 
The IAEA also reported that Iran has no nuclear weapon development program.

original.antiwar.com/christian-stork/2012/09/27/the-complete-idiots-guide-to-iran-and-the-bomb-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-facts/

Yes, it’s still antiwar.com. It’s a good source, so I’ll continue to use it.
It’s a highly biased and editorialized source. You’re welcome to use what you like, but don’t accept anyone to accept such a narrow weltanschauung without a serious grain of salt.

I provided a direct link to the IAEA report.

I guess you just ignore the part where other enriched uranium increased by 30%+, (you can still weaponize 3-5%), the lack of access to sites, or “possible military dimentions”?

See part H:

nytimes.com/interactive/2012/08/31/world/middleeast/iaea-report-on-iran-nuclear.html
 
You all are probably going to think I am flaky, but I am still undecided. I think I favor Romney at this point, but the feeling isn’t strong since I am not sure what his economic plan entails (to be fair, I haven’t looked yet–I need to do that). To me, it’s like picking the best of two bad choices for me. I am hoping the second debate and a little more research on my part will solidify things for me. I don’t know enough about 3rd party candidates to vote for them at this point.

As for the pro-life concern, I figure it’s moot in this election. I really don’t think either candidate is truly pro-life (Obama I know isn’t and with Romney, I have my doubts). I don’t think anything will change for the unborn and innocent no matter who is in office. I think both candidates are paying lip service to what they think will be “easy votes” to get.

So with abortion aside now, I am looking more at the economy, jobs, getting America back on its feet. Obama has made some progress I think… things are better economically. But I don’t think it’s enough. I need to figure out if Romney’s plan would work or work better. I figure as a businessman, he has a good feel for that and has that in his favor. And as a Republican in a Democratic state, he can work across the isle so to speak (and that’s why right now I am leaning towards him–but not strongly because I know that I need to do more research).
 
It’s a highly biased and editorialized source. You’re welcome to use what you like, but don’t accept anyone to accept such a narrow weltanschauung without a serious grain of salt.
That’s how I feel about the NY Times. 😉
I provided a direct link to the IAEA report.
I guess you just ignore the part where other enriched uranium increased by 30%+, (you can still weaponize 3-5%), the lack of access to sites, or “possible military dimentions”?
See part H:
Where’s the proof? And where is that enriched uranium?
 
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