Press: Trump's final presidential pardon: himself

[RidgeSprinter]

That’s false. Also, I’d like to hear these examples.

Just follow his tweet and his speeches everyday is all it takes.

 

[Ridgerunner]

If Biden wins, CAF will probably be relieved of my presence because I will be too busy trying to salvage my finances from the disaster that will hit. And, knowing abortion will be paid for by taxpayers, I’ll be doing so in a way as to reduce my taxes as much as possible. I tend to doubt I’ll be paying much attention to the news.

 

[Abrosz]

If Biden wins, CAF will probably be relieved of my presence

That would too bad, because dissenting opinions are valuable.

 

[Ridgerunner]

That would too bad, because dissenting opinions are valuable.

If Biden wins, there will surely be a window of time during which dissent is still possible. But after the experience of seeing the politicization of so many federal agencies in the last administration and the results of it, I don’t expect it to last. Repubs have already pretty much “joined the club” with the Dems, and they certainly will if they’re afraid they’ll be the next Flynns or Sessions if they don’t. I suspect politics will become extremely uninteresting.

No, and I appreciate your solicitude, but I expect to have no freedom of speech fairly shortly after a Biden election, for all the reasons.

Then there is the first degree murder charge for the assassination of Qassem Soleimani which might be pursued in an international court.

I would expect a Biden administration to submit U.S. citizens to international bodies much more than at present. It will be true of the economy as well because the Paris Accords will be adopted, with the result that fracking will be outlawed and we’ll be paying “CO2 taxes” to third world dictators while China has no limitations on energy use. I do feel fortunate, however, in living not terribly far from the Anadarko Basin. Back during the Carter energy drought, we had plenty of gas and gasoline while Yankees froze in the dark because the big pipelines to the upper midwest go through here.

 

[Victoria33]

There’s been no talk of a trial over Soleimani, just compensation.

In the meantime, Democrats want to defund the police, confiscate guns, more taxes. Horrible agenda.

 

[Abrosz]

If Biden wins, there will surely be a window of time during which dissent is still possible. But after the experience of seeing the politicization of so many federal agencies in the last administration and the results of it, I don’t expect it to last. Repubs have already pretty much “joined the club” with the Dems, and they certainly will if they’re afraid they’ll be the next Flynns or Sessions if they don’t. I suspect politics will become extremely uninteresting.

No, and I appreciate your solicitude, but I expect to have no freedom of speech fairly shortly after a Biden election, for all the reasons.

I think you are too pessimistic, but it is not my job try to change you. There will be some economic hardship around the corner, because of the irresponsible tax changes introduced by Trump. The national debt has skyrocketed. And only the big corporations benefited from it, spending their windfall on buying back their stock. I am an economist and a libertarian, and I cringed at the wanton spending changes.

Trump had only two goals, one to get re-elected, the other one to destroy whatever Obama did, at whatever the cost. Of course he wants to get re-elected, because otherwise he will be buried under the landslide of lawsuits. His crazy attitude toward the epidemic was mindbogglingly stupid.

As for restricting the freedom of dissent, that fear is unfounded. You are free to criticize and free to practice your religion. What you will not be able to do is discriminate against who do not share your point of view. I am aware that you are against abortions, that that is your right. But it is bad form to call the other side to be pro-abortion, when they are simply pro-choice. This kind of distortion makes your side unworthy to be taken seriously.

The republicans were scared due to the foul mouth of Trump, and his badmouthing everyone who dared to disagree with him. Fortunately that is also changing. Whether Biden will win, or not is yet to seen. Hopefully he will choose a woman running mate, and hopefully she will take the helm - eventually.

There was a great, old Chinese “curse” : “May you live in interesting times”. Yep, the times are very interesting. “Be good or be good at it”.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I think you are too pessimistic, but it is not my job try to change you. There will be some economic hardship around the corner, because of the irresponsible tax changes introduced by Trump. The national debt has skyrocketed. And only the big corporations benefited from it, spending their windfall on buying back their stock. I am an economist and a libertarian, and I cringed at the wanton spending changes.

Actually, I didn’t. I have always been a friend of a reasonably robust level of inflation; just short of having to do a Volker. A reasonable degree of inflation is a great aid to someone trying to acquire a reasonable level of productive, inheritable assets (per Rerum Novarum).

I personally doubt Trump had any particular desire to destroy whatever Obama did. I think he actually is a populist, whether out of conviction or expedience, and Obama’s policies weren’t. If he didn’t know before now that he’s going to be sued and prosecuted without surcease (and not just him) he doesn’t know much about the people he’s up against.

My religion? You forget that the DNC people support dissident “Catholic” organizations who subvert the faith? You forget that Hilary said people opposing abortion will have to “change their religion” to accommodate it? Personally, I think they were telling the truth. But I am also aware that I’m small fry; not worth the notice of anyone important.

But it is bad form to call the other side to be pro-abortion, when they are simply pro-choice. This kind of distortion makes your side unworthy to be taken seriously.

Likely there were plenty of Germans who said they weren’t “anti-Jewish”, just “pro-German”. And I don’t actually ask anyone to take me seriously. It’s enough for me that I and my family actually try to live according to the teachings of the Church.

I am sure Biden will select a woman, but I question whether she’ll really take the helm. Someone will, and immediately upon inauguration. But whether the people with real power will allow some Kamala Harris to tell them what to do is uncertain to me, and I’m tempted to doubt it. I think it will be more like an oligarchy of people, some of whom we know and some we don’t.

Maybe the Repubs were afraid of Trump’s foul mouth. I think though that the fates of Flynn, Papapdopoulos, Sessions and others told them everything they needed to know. And I think that was deliberately “pour encourager les autres”. They’ll be happy enough to be the “loyal opposition” out of real power forever, but content with the crumbs. And they’ll behave. Already do.

When I tell people I’m not a Repub, I’m completely serious. I was always a Dem, but left the party because of its devotion to abortion. I was on the inside, very much so. I am still more like that, but I’m now a dinosaur; a fossil. Democrats are no longer like what they once were.

 

[Abrosz]

My religion? You forget that the DNC people support dissident “Catholic” organizations who subvert the faith?

Not really. In their eyes they are the true Catholics and you are the ultra-orthodox. And there is no way to find a common ground. But you call them CINO’s and that is not helpful for a conversation.

Likely there were plenty of Germans who said they weren’t “anti-Jewish”, just “pro-German”.

That is a very bad analogy. Most of the Germans were against the Nazis, they were just afraid for their lives. If the skinheads would gain power, I would be scared, too.

I was always a Dem, but left the party because of its devotion to abortion.

No one “likes” abortion. I have never heard of a woman, who purposefully got pregnant, just so that she could have an abortion. The problem with your side is that you insist on abstinence (periodical or total) if people do not want to get pregnant. That is an irrational expectation. Not even the members of the clergy live according to this principle. The way to talk to these people is to strongly endorse artificial birth control as long as they do not want to procreate. It is a fact that even the overwhelming majority of Catholics disagrees with you. People want sex - pretty much every day, and may want to procreate 2 or 3 times in their life. As long as the church does not accommodate this attitude, it will lose followers… people will become CINO’s.

But we can get back to the original topic. Trump only cares about himself. He will do whatever he can to run down the statute of limitation, because he knows that otherwise he will be buried under a landslide of lawsuits.

He can try to pardon himself, or create a real or bogus emergency to prevent the election. I don’t know, but I am not optimistic about having a peaceful transition of power. I fervently hope I am wrong! If he would gracefully retire, I would have a favorable opinion about this step.

 

[Rubee]

I think it would be a very bad precedent to prosecute Trump or fail to pardon him. I mean, you guys did not prosecute any president before and they were not all exactly saints. Americans seem to be absolutely determined to rip their last remaining layers of nationhood. I think something like that would spell doom for the future and probably add fuel to sentiments of secession. Can’t turn elections into a do or die and expect the process to keep going swimmingly indefinitely. Some things exist for a reason and need to be seen beyond the current state of affairs/occupant.

 

[Ridgerunner]

He will do whatever he can to run down the statute of limitation, because he knows that otherwise he will be buried under a landslide of lawsuits.

All a Democrat congress will have to do is change the statute. And even if he pardoned himself, the Democrats can bring all kinds of false state charges against him. I imagine he knows all of that. I don’t know how he wouldn’t. He’s facing years of prosecution, no matter what.

No one “likes” abortion

But they like the money, which is what Planned Parenthood gives the Democrats from the tax money the Democrats give Planned Parenthood. There would be some who imagine they’re helping get rid of “undesirables” with abortion. But perhaps most important would be the fact that people sometimes find evil alluring and find reasons to justify it when the evil itself is the attraction. There was plenty of that manifested in the 20th Century.

It is a fact that even the overwhelming majority of Catholics disagrees with you.

Even if it was true, so what? Morality isn’t always popular, and majority opinion won’t save anyone from an eternity in hell.

I think it would be a very bad precedent to prosecute Trump or fail to pardon him.

I agree with you, Rubee, but do you really think any of the more serious Trump haters even here on CAF care about precedent? They simply want Trump in jail and don’t care how they do it. One is reminded of St. Thomas More’s exchange with Richard Rich in “Man for All Seasons”.

 

[Abrosz]

And even if he pardoned himself, the Democrats can bring all kinds of false state charges against him.

False? Are you now the arbiter of what is true and what is false?

But perhaps most important would be the fact that people sometimes find evil alluring and find reasons to justify it when the evil itself is the attraction.

What is evil? And even if some women choose abortion for their own reasons, it STILL does not mean that they “like” abortions.

Even if it was true, so what? Morality isn’t always popular, and majority opinion won’t save anyone from an eternity in hell.

So what? It shows that the ultra-orthodox people are out of touch with reality. And this “eternity in hell” could use some actual evidence, because it sure sounds like a bogey-man to scare the small children.

I think it would be a very bad precedent to prosecute Trump or fail to pardon him.

On the contrary, it would send the horrible message to the next authoritarian “dictator-to-be” that if you have the power, then anything goes, that you are above the law, and you cannot be touched. It is ridiculous to say that a president should be allowed to run amok - just because he is president. Crooks and criminals MUST be put to justice, otherwise we can become a new North Korea.

I agree with you, Rubee, but do you really think any of the more serious Trump haters even here on CAF care about precedent?

Sure they do. The precedent they wish to avoid is that presidents are above the law.

 

[Rubee]

On the contrary, it would send the horrible message to the next authoritarian “dictator-to-be” that if you have the power, then anything goes, that you are above the law, and you cannot be touched. It is ridiculous to say that a president should be allowed to run amok - just because he is president. Crooks and criminals MUST be put to justice, otherwise we can become a new North Korea.

And you think when the next Republican wins, they won’t go after Obama, the Clintons, or Biden? Even Bush? Or do you really believe they did nothing prosecutable? You guys are busy digging your own graves as a nation. This is exactly how seeds of later civil wars are sown; with hubris. I hope for your own sakes, you calm down and realize there’s life after Trump. Just get him out of office and move on to your next Head of State who may be more refined than Trump but not that much better in morals.

 

[Abrosz]

And you think when the next Republican wins, they won’t go after Obama, the Clintons, or Biden?

I bet they will.

You guys are busy digging your own graves as a nation.

Getting rid of criminals in high places is the way to create a better environment.

I hope for your own sakes, you calm down and realize there’s life after Trump.

Hopefully so. But to repair all the damage that Trump did our reputation will be long, uphill battle.

 

[Rubee]

Hopefully so. But repair all the damage that Trump did our reputation will be long, uphill battle.

Trump is a foul-mouth. That’s the only thing “worse” he has done. Almost everything else wrong in your country was there before Trump became president and will be there under Biden. Trump, at least, has not started an unnecessary war with a death-toll of millions. I think it the height of hypocrisy to consider him some special bad, even among your living presidents.

 

[Abrosz]

Trump is a foul-mouth. That’s the only thing “worse” he has done. Almost everything else wrong in your country was there before Trump became president and will be there under Biden.

You are wrong. Being an uncouth, nekulturny bully is not the worst he has done. Alienating our allies, sucking up to autocrats is infinitely worse.

 

[Rubee]

Alienating our allies, sucking up to autocrats is infinitely worse.

Who really has been alienated? And please, no more of this Russiagate nonsense, for the love of God. It’s a transparent conspiracy theory. Why did you not consider Obama’s deal with Iran evil? You have presidents who allied with Stalin and all sorts of dictators all over your history.

 

[Ridgerunner]

False? Are you now the arbiter of what is true and what is false?

Of course not. But “Russia Collusion” was false, so what’s the reason to expect better of the Democrats than that?

It shows that the ultra-orthodox people are out of touch with reality. And this “eternity in hell” could use some actual evidence, because it sure sounds like a bogey-man to scare the small children.

Ha! You mean the “bitter clingers”; the “irredeemables”, the ones who need to “change their religion” to accommodate abortion? Those people? And it’s not “ultra orthodox”. It’s just “orthodox” to follow the teachings of the Church. But I realize the DNC regards the catholic Church as “backward” and “medieval”, so I guess the Democrat party will not give up its anti-Catholicism any time soon.

.

 

[Abrosz]

But “Russia Collusion” was false, so what’s the reason to expect better of the Democrats than that?

The word “collusion” is inapplicable. There was no formal quid-pro-quo, but the lack of formal agreement does not invalidate the actual facts. The Russians succeeded in interfering with our election, and Trump explicitly asked their help in the next one. When a new law was introduced to prevent the next interference, the republicans and Trump torpedoed the attempt.

Ha! You mean the “bitter clingers”; the “irredeemables”, the ones who need to “change their religion” to accommodate abortion?

No, I am talking about the ones who keep threatening others with eternal flames - without one iota of evidence. Abortions are here and will be here. The only rational solution is to try to minimize them. And that can be achieved by preventing unwanted pregnancies. And that would require encouraging artificial birth control. Also making the procedure more foolproof. To keep on talking about periodic abstinence only shows that the church is really out of touch with reality. Not even the catholic people follow this “rule”.

This is the reason that there is a dissatisfaction with the church - not just from the outside, but from the inside. There is a growth of “liberal” priests and bishops, and eventually there will come a Vatican III with some serious changes.

But I realize the DNC regards the catholic Church as “backward” and “medieval”, so I guess the Democrat party will not give up its anti-Catholicism any time soon.

So what? If you feel to be oppressed, call upon the ACLU, and they will help with your legal problems, if and when they happen. Imagine: “the ACLU”! Ironic or what.

You keep disregarding the fact that there are many Catholics in the democratic party… you just commit the “no true Scotsman” fallacy.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Trump explicitly asked their help in the next one.

an obvious joke aimed at Hillary

When a new law was introduced to prevent the next interference, the republicans and Trump torpedoed the attempt.

Rightly, since it was a cynical act.

No, I am talking about the ones who keep threatening others with eternal flames - without one iota of evidence. Abortions are here and will be here. The only rational solution is to try to minimize them. And that can be achieved by preventing unwanted pregnancies. And that would require encouraging artificial birth control. Also making the procedure more foolproof. To keep on talking about periodic abstinence only shows that the church is really out of touch with reality. Not even the catholic people follow this “rule”.

You follow your religion and I’ll follow mine. But it’s a bit discourteous to come into a Catholic site and denigrate the Catholic Church and its teachings. You don’t go to someone else’s house and start complaining about the curtains.

And you’re quite wrong about there being a growth of “liberal” priests. It’s actually going the other way. Seminarians nowadays are significantly more orthodox than those who are older. Bishops are another thing entirely. Some American bishops are more Democrat than they are Catholic, but there is no particular reason to expect that to last, and good reason to think it won’t.

Not that it’s a good thing, but eventually a lot of Catholics are going to apostasize, just as they did during the Arian heresy and the reformation. Most of those who remain will not have been poisoned by the skepticism of the 1970s and the paganism of the early 21st Century.

There will be a renewal in Catholicism, and soon. But it won’t be what you think it will be.

 

[Abrosz]

an obvious joke aimed at Hillary

You can’t be serious.

Rightly, since it was a cynical act.

Again, what evidence do you have for that?

But it’s a bit discourteous to come into a Catholic site and denigrate the Catholic Church and its teachings.

I don’t denigrate anything, merely express a different opinion. But to threaten others with “eternal torture” is not a good idea.

As for the trend going on, the Vatican keeps complaining about ongoing secularization, about the empty pews, and other negative signs within the church. Many Catholic couples practice active birth control, many Catholic women have no problem with abortions, many Catholics oppose the celibacy of the clergy, the lack of ordination of women, also are dissatisfied with the way the church handled the sexual scandal in the clergy. So the signs are not promising for a renewal in the “right” direction.

Some American bishops are more Democrat than they are Catholic

Please get serious. Democrat and Catholic are not opposites. But here comes a question to you: “are there atheist Catholics?” Or, is the phrase “atheist Catholic” an oxymoron???