Pretty much had it with my wife

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Over the course of my college experiences, I formulated this maxim:

In the absence of of organized division of labor enforced by adverse consequences of some kind, the roommate who is first to be driven nuts by the state of a shared residence will do no less than 80% of the housework, no matter how many other roommates there are.

I am guessing that the OP does most of the work because the state of the house bothers him, because scrounging whatever can be heated up out of the refrigerator and the freezer as “dinner” bothers him, but it does not disturb his wife. This is a very difficult state of affairs to change, which is why I advised others to consider my maxim when they chose their roommates.
Oh, I forgot to recommend.

Fly Lady

It is a system devised by a woman who had NO IDEA how to keep a house clean. She cleans by “zones,” doing a little bit at a time, not trying to do the whole house in one go. It works for disorganized, clueless people as well as the compulsive cleaners who need to learn to stop and smell the roses. She will send email reminders to the person and there is a wealth of information on her website.
The FlyLady is especially well-geared to someone who does not have the habits of keeping up with housework. If his wife will sign on to it, I highly recommend it. No promises, though.
 
Could you clean together? Not just splitting up the list, but actually spending time together. Cleaning seems so overwhelming at times. Having someone else help me makes it more do-able bc it will take half as long. You could turn on some peppy music and tackle it together. If you’ve got 2 baskets of laundry to fold and need to do the dishes and sweep the kitchen floor, instead of saying “you do the laundry and I’ll do the kitchen,” say “Let’s each do a basket of laundry, and then I’ll do the dishes while you sweep the floor.” Engage in some pleasant chit-chat while you fold, etc.

Don’t clean when she’s busy or out of the house…Clean when she’s being lazy so that she will feel obligated to help you.

Hopefully she will change her behavior but even if she doesn’t, at least you got your house clean in half the time.

Don’t forget about the music. Helps pass the time. 🙂
 
I agree— it probably has a lot to do with how she was raised. It’s hard to reprogram people.

How much time did she spend on her own after graduating school (high school? undergrad? associate’s degree?) and marrying you? Dorm life/college life isn’t the real world. If she went straight from student life to married life, that was a major growth opportunity missed where she would have been forced to develop certain responsibilities which were probably never expected of her previously.

Honestly, a lot of the things you could say about her were things I had to struggle dealing with on my own. My husband had to “raise” himself (along with his older brother) in high school when his parents had to go out-of-country on business for two years. Then he continued being independent when he went to college. And then he went out in the workforce for a few years after graduating. Me? I got married six months after I graduated from undergrad. Perhaps five of those months were spent living at my parents’ house while I worked and saved. It was a serious problem, trying to transition from student life (you want to stay up until 2 am playing on the computer? why not?) to being an adult.

Another difficulty I had was a matter of perception. He saw something out of place-- he sees it as a mess. If I see something out of place, I see a reminder of a project I’m in the middle of. As one of four kids, my parents’ house was never a picture-perfect magazine spread, so I never got into the habit of registering dust or dirt and thinking, “Y’know, I need to do something about that…”

One thing that really helps me is setting a timer. I tell myself, “I’m going to clean the kitchen for 20 minutes.” And voila! I find 20 minutes’ worth of stuff to pick up that would never have occurred to me to pick up if I hadn’t trapped myself in the kitchen for 20 minutes. 😛

A second thing that really helps me is a list. I might write down five or six things that I definitely want to get done, no matter what, before I go to bed. It wouldn’t occur to me that I hadn’t cleaned the sink/tub/toilet in x period of time, but if I’m searching for something to write down, and think I haven’t done that in a while-- I put it on my list, and by golly, that bathroom’s going to get clean!

A third thing that really, really, tremendously helped me was when my MIL came and lived with us for a period of time. I got to see how proactive she was when it came to housekeeping, and how regular she was with her chores. Amazing-- dishes didn’t stay in the sink overnight! Wow! She actually mops the kitchen floor on a regular basis? Being able to model my behavior off what I saw firsthand was way more helpful than just theoretically knowing that dirty dishes and dirty floors bothered my husband.

A fourth thing I like, but my husband doesn’t, is when he gives me a specific request to fill. “I hate telling you to do stuff, because I’m not your dad,” he’d tell me, but I thought of it as letting him put something important to him on my to-do list, whether it was cooking something out of the ordinary, or tending to a particular room I didn’t realize had been neglected as badly as he thought it had been.

If clutter is a problem, I recommend reading “The Organizing Sourcebook : Nine Strategies for Simplifying Your Life” by Kathy Waddil (ISBN 978-0737304244). (You can pick up a used copy for 50 cents plus shipping off Amazon.) I found it immensely useful because it helped me figure out what I mentally needed to do in order to tame my piles of “stuff.”

Pregnancy isn’t the easiest time for major behavioral changes, especially with a toddler in the picture. It can be tremendously fatiguing. But being frustrated because your wife is lacking the maturity/responsibility to pick up on those thing herself is a common problem, and not easily solved in a short period. But it can be improved upon. Good luck to you and your family. 👍
 
Welcome to matrimony! It is definitely a vocation, with much self-sacrifice and a great need for patience, tolerance, and plain old hard work. Of course, this goes for both of you! Counseling is a great idea, and I also recommend that you both read “Theology of the Body for Beginners” by Christopher West. It’s about the fullness of matrimony, and is really about much more than just the physical body. Fantastic book!

God bless you, sounds like you’re getting your money’s worth out of your marriage already! Remember, what doesn’t kill you makes you stonger. 😃
 
LOL…you guys are awesome. She actually has been a member of FlyLady for a long time and it has helped, but only marginally. The problem is she constantly falls off the wagon, but mayble I can convince her to keep up with it.
I say this as a slob whose husband is not a slob: recognize that you also face the prospect of how to help her hold herself accountable without putting you in the role of the parent. Moving from a spouse-spouse to a parent-child relationship, even in one sphere, will probably breed resentment in her. Some couples pull that off, but I think most see it more as a coaching role or a hairbrained-genius-guided-by-sensible-administrative-assistant or some other adult-adult relationship.

As you talk about this, with or without a counsellor, I would reiterate with her that a) you have not forgotten all the great reasons you married her or all the things she does succeed at and that you see this as something for the two of you to work out together and b) you want to find a way to address this issue without putting yourself in a parental role, because nobody wants that. It would also be helpful to open up in general what are ways to voice complaints (which will always be there) in a way that can be sustained for a lifetime of mutual respect and love.

Do not neglect to point out the things that you can’t do if you take on too many of the roles required by the routines of your domestic life. Also, find out from her what she lacks, such as intellectual stimulation, in having a role so filled with that routine stuff. These are the things you may need to look at in order to find a solution.

You might also consider that your wife has ADD or a habit of acting that is similar to ADD. You might check out books from the library such as “Married to Distraction” by Ed Hallowell, to see if the strategies used by spouses married to people with ADD might help you, too.
 
Don’t give up! I will be praying for your marriage.

Is it financially possible to hire part-time help? If it is, that might take away some of your stress and resentment and it might be easier for your wife to maintain the order and cleanliness. Maybe she just gets overwhelmed and doesn’t know where to start.
I give this suggestion my vote:thumbsup: It’s time to pamper your wife and expect nothing more than what she is able to accomplish from day to day. Just take into account a few considerations here before this situation gets out of control…
  1. You love your wife and she loves you and you have one lovely child and another on the way. You want a happy future together, don’t you? Well, resentment can destroy all of that - it is very corrosive - all the talking and reasoning in the world (counseling, God forbid) as to why she should do her ‘share’ of the chores will not prevent it creeping in.
  2. Being pregnant is no joke. Your body is changing in ways you can’t believe. Hormones are pouring in here and there, affecting body and brain chemistry (I became so weepy and had a constant feeling of vulnerability - that for me was ridiculous, being normally a confident sparky type). Aches and pains, worry, tiredness, sadness sometimes, overwhelmed, “I just need the loo right now” but…(just that simple function is sometimes a mission to achieve,)…my toddler needs me, he/she has just spilt their juice, yelling etc…“will I ever make it to that loo”…the phone is ringing, oh no, those cats…should I continue? i.e. describing a world/job that one has very little actual control over. Yes you can make plans, yes you can ‘get organized’ (favorite remark of husbands), but there is still the ‘random factor’ that throws you a curved ball time after time.
  3. She loves you and her children - and is doing her best to keep all of you happy and safe during what is a difficult time for her. Be supportive, look for the positive - what’s a few extra chores for a strong, healthy man anyway?:rolleyes: Think of all the diapers and messes she cleans up day after day.
How about - pick up some pizza and a bunch of flowers on the way home, snuggle up infront of the tv and chill… you are both blessed in each other. Enjoy these moments, they are going to be your future memories:D
 
… … i’m going to exploit the progress made by my “get rid of the cats” suggestion.

get rid of lots of stuff.

here’s a true story: my neighbor had a profoundly messy wife. their house was a disaster. after years of strife over this, she was diagnosed with ADD. like most people with attention deficit, she didnt really suffer from a DEFICIT of attention. she suffered from an ABUNDANCE of attention. every speck, every sound, every breeze caught her attention and captured it. at least till the next speck/ sound or breeze passed by.

her house was a wreck because she couldnt focus on any one thing. everything vied for attention and tossed her about. she was distracted and defeated.

part of her therapy was to downsize everything. one towel per person, plus one for a guest. one plate/ cup/ fork/ knife per persoon. 2 pots. one trash bin in every room. one laundry basket for out-of-place stuff in every room. 1 church outfit. 2 every day outfits. same for the kids. couch. end table. lamp. picture and clock on the wall.

she was WAAAAYYYY better at keeping up with these few things. even when the house got messy, it couldnt get that messy. and not-that-messy was not so distracting. she achieved more.

everytime they added stuff (even simple stuff like newspaper or magazine subscriptions or something) she’d lose control. even the TV or radio on throughout the day drove her off the rails.

simplify. simplify.
 
All very good advice so far.

If you can afford weekly home cleaning, then go for that. Try to find a private cleaning lady, rather than an agency, as they are usually 50% cheaper. You might have to search around a while to find one - check shop notice boards, ask friends, check the local newspaper, etc. One thing to be careful of is that some agencies will advertise as an individual, under “A” at the top of the list eg. "Andrea. Cleaning lady. ".

This can make a huge difference to your household. I have been a single dad for 17 years now, and my house is almost always spotless. The weekly cleaning becomes a focus for everyone catching up with their own tidying up.

With the dinners, here’s a suggestion. Keep a supply of long life, “easy” dinners in the fridge and pantry, such as tinned stews, frozen pizza, etc. Then, if neither of you feels like cooking you can just whip out one of these.

As others have observed, on the scale of marital problems things could be a lot worse 🙂

:twocents:
 
Has your wife’s housekeeping skills always been this bad? I ask because if there is a sudden change, she might be dealing with the symptoms of depression. If you think that could be a cause, I would try to get her to go to a doctor. Sudden slovenly-ness is a very common sign.
 
I say this as a slob whose husband is not a slob: recognize that you also face the prospect of how to help her hold herself accountable without putting you in the role of the parent. Moving from a spouse-spouse to a parent-child relationship, even in one sphere, will probably breed resentment in her. Some couples pull that off, but I think most see it more as a coaching role or a hairbrained-genius-guided-by-sensible-administrative-assistant or some other adult-adult relationship.

As you talk about this, with or without a counsellor, I would reiterate with her that a) you have not forgotten all the great reasons you married her or all the things she does succeed at and that you see this as something for the two of you to work out together and b) you want to find a way to address this issue without putting yourself in a parental role, because nobody wants that. It would also be helpful to open up in general what are ways to voice complaints (which will always be there) in a way that can be sustained for a lifetime of mutual respect and love.

Do not neglect to point out the things that you can’t do if you take on too many of the roles required by the routines of your domestic life. Also, find out from her what she lacks, such as intellectual stimulation, in having a role so filled with that routine stuff. These are the things you may need to look at in order to find a solution.

You might also consider that your wife has ADD or a habit of acting that is similar to ADD. You might check out books from the library such as “Married to Distraction” by Ed Hallowell, to see if the strategies used by spouses married to people with ADD might help you, too.
Actually I bought that book, thinking it was about being married to someone with ADHD, but the title is somewhat unclear…It’s more about how to handle the lifestyle we now have, with all the distractions away from true relationship with others, especially our spouses. I love the book but not for the reason I bought it. It’s much more applicable to everyone than what I thought it might be.
 
I don’t think this really needs any counseling like many are suggesting. All you need to do is sit down and talk with your wife. Present your side and tell her she needs to pick up some slack. Having to do all of this work at home and then having to go to work everyday is stressing you out completely. Her being pregnant should not be a cop out to not do some house work. When you talk to her you don’t have to be confrontational about it just talk to her one night while watching tv or something.
 
I don’t think this really needs any counseling like many are suggesting. All you need to do is sit down and talk with your wife. Present your side and tell her she needs to pick up some slack. Having to do all of this work at home and then having to go to work everyday is stressing you out completely. Her being pregnant should not be a cop out to not do some house work. When you talk to her you don’t have to be confrontational about it just talk to her one night while watching tv or something.
Umm… please don’t take this the wrong way… but, are you married? I’ve experienced pregnancy twice, and even though it’s not a debilitating illness, my personal experience of physical limitations were certainly not “cop-outs”.
 
As someone who is the slob and has the husband who does it all, I like the idea of making a list of all the things that you do to keep up the house - or all the things that need to be done, if you’re not able to do everything. I can’t speak for your wife, buy I hate the fact that my house is messy, so I don’t need a photo of it. It can be overwhelming to be presented with a list and be asked to immediately do everything on it, or even half of everything on it. I would suggest you sit down and have a heart to heart with your wife, and tell her that you are overwhelmed by the responsibilities and that you can’t keep up at this pace. Ask her for her (name removed by moderator)ut on why chores are so difficult, and ask her if she has ideas on how the situation can be improved. I would suggest starting with one additional task at a time and spending a week or so getting used to adding it into the daily routine. Starting slow might make it seem possible, rather than an insurmountable challenge, especially as she progresses in the pregnancy. Also, if she is already having trouble giving enough attention to the toddler, you don’t want the toddler to suffer from a sudden expectation to do all of these things, when she doesn’t know how to mange her time that way.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t do counseling, or seek help in another way, but these are my thoughts on practical ways to improve things a little.
 
Actually I bought that book, thinking it was about being married to someone with ADHD, but the title is somewhat unclear…It’s more about how to handle the lifestyle we now have, with all the distractions away from true relationship with others, especially our spouses. I love the book but not for the reason I bought it. It’s much more applicable to everyone than what I thought it might be.
There is a limit to how much his situation is going to improve. His wife may get more neat, but it is hardly unlikely that she’s not going to “fall off the wagon”. I don’t know if she has ADD, but by his account she does have a* lifetime* of looking at domestic chaos and yet not doing anything about it. That doesn’t mean she is chaos-blind, she may actually get things unnecessarily perfect when she does get a burr under her saddle to get organized, but it does mean she is highly chaos-tolerant, whether she feels good about it or not or whether she’s just in learned helplessness.

IOW, he’s not exactly trying to teach a cat to play frisbee, he’s not being unreasonable, but he also needs to stay realistic. Encouraging her repeatedly to get back onto the FlyLady bandwagon may be the best he’s going to do.

I do know quite a few people who were totally overwhelmed by the extent of chaos in their homes who were helped by professional organizers. As the FlyLady puts it, you can’t keep clutter organized. You have to be moved to get rid of it, and then you have to actually have a place where things go before you can teach yourself to pick up after yourself as you go along.
 
As someone who is the slob and has the husband who does it all, I like the idea of making a list of all the things that you do to keep up the house - or all the things that need to be done, if you’re not able to do everything. I can’t speak for your wife, buy I hate the fact that my house is messy, so I don’t need a photo of it. It can be overwhelming to be presented with a list and be asked to immediately do everything on it, or even half of everything on it. I would suggest you sit down and have a heart to heart with your wife, and tell her that you are overwhelmed by the responsibilities and that you can’t keep up at this pace. Ask her for her (name removed by moderator)ut on why chores are so difficult, and ask her if she has ideas on how the situation can be improved. I would suggest starting with one additional task at a time and spending a week or so getting used to adding it into the daily routine. Starting slow might make it seem possible, rather than an insurmountable challenge, especially as she progresses in the pregnancy. Also, if she is already having trouble giving enough attention to the toddler, you don’t want the toddler to suffer from a sudden expectation to do all of these things, when she doesn’t know how to mange her time that way.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t do counseling, or seek help in another way, but these are my thoughts on practical ways to improve things a little.
This is why I think the FlyLady method of adding a good habit every month is a good one. It is not so overwhelming. It would be good, though, if her husband could help her find a habit a month that would make him feel better.
 
Has your wife’s housekeeping skills always been this bad? I ask because if there is a sudden change, she might be dealing with the symptoms of depression. If you think that could be a cause, I would try to get her to go to a doctor. Sudden slovenly-ness is a very common sign.
No, this is not sudden. She has always been this way.
 
There is a limit to how much his situation is going to improve. His wife may get more neat, but it is hardly unlikely that she’s not going to “fall off the wagon”. I don’t know if she has ADD, but by his account she does have a* lifetime* of looking at domestic chaos and yet not doing anything about it. That doesn’t mean she is chaos-blind, she may actually get things unnecessarily perfect when she does get a burr under her saddle to get organized, but it does mean she is highly chaos-tolerant, whether she feels good about it or not or whether she’s just in learned helplessness.
This is very true–she’ll go through very short periods where she is fine and then just completely falls off the wagon. She’ll get the bedroom neat and orderly and then, not even a week later, it will look like it did before.

She has had pretty much a lifetime of looking at domestic chaos. This somehow came up when we visited her family out of state (her maternal grandmother, and aunt and uncle). The grandmother and uncle sarcastically said something to the effect of role models she had. Actually her grandmother said, “She grew up in a pig sty, so she thinks that’s normal.”
 
I don’t think this really needs any counseling like many are suggesting. All you need to do is sit down and talk with your wife. Present your side and tell her she needs to pick up some slack. Having to do all of this work at home and then having to go to work everyday is stressing you out completely. Her being pregnant should not be a cop out to not do some house work. When you talk to her you don’t have to be confrontational about it just talk to her one night while watching tv or something.
Oh, I wish it were that easy. I have been telling her for almost seven years that she needs to pick-up more slack. I sort of agree regarding the counseling–I really don’t want to go in that direction, but it may be the only real option at this point, after the baby is born. I agree with what many have said so far that, at this point, it doesn’t make sense to try to deal with behavioral changes while she is pregnant.
 
I do know quite a few people who were totally overwhelmed by the extent of chaos in their homes who were helped by professional organizers. As the FlyLady puts it, you can’t keep clutter organized. You have to be moved to get rid of it, and then you have to actually have a place where things go before you can teach yourself to pick up after yourself as you go along.
Yup, clutter always results in chaos. You can’t really have so much more stuff lying around than your containers (and surface) can hold. I always struggle with this.

As far as the chores division goes or the failure to live up to her part of the chores division, the following things come to my mind:
  • isn’t she depressed? some kind or paralysis of willpower or lack of energy?
  • isn’t she particularly unhappy about staying home instead of going to work?
  • doesn’t she hate chores actually, to the point she just can’t get herself to do them (to which I could relate)?
  • how much (name removed by moderator)ut did she have in coming up with the division: did she merely agree with a list prepared by the OP or did she cooperate? some people don’t want to do some things but they won’t say so, they won’t oppose you when you put those obligations on them, they will just nod their consent, bottle up their opposition and fail at doing what you expect of them (and which they see as unfair).
If she does hate chores or hates staying home or lacks the discipline to get things done without having a manager watching her (I struggle with that too, working from home at the computer), perhaps it would be better for her to get a job (half-time perhaps) and for the two of you to use some of the income to hire help.

If she has depression in general or specifically because of staying home and not going anywhere, no work, no friends, no nothing, then you may need to change that before she goes insane. (For the same reason that I’ll have to change my home-based work soon.) For the record, loneliness (e.g. of the sole adult in the house, who only has the cat to talk to) can have very, very awful consequences. Not going outside too.

If it’s a matter of her not getting (name removed by moderator)ut in the decision-making, you basically need to get her to cooperate. That means less you and more her in the negotiation process. Basically make sure it’s appropriately two-sided. Give her opportunity to speak and be flexible to accept her proposals even if your own ones seem more reasonable to you. People are more ready to comply with agreements that they co-authored than with obligations that were put on them by others (this is something I learnt at law school, in the alternative dispute resolution course). But obviously she must be willing to talk and to assume a share of the obligations. You, in turn, need to let her speak and let her speak freely (without being afraid of your reaction, such as anger, dimissal, resentment, rebuttal, repeating negation etc.) and be heard (her (name removed by moderator)ut must be showing in the outcome of the decision-making). At the same time, however, you can’t be a doormat, such as giving in to constant “let’s talk tomorrows” and “I’m not in the mood to talks” or subject change or other immature reactions. You will need to find this spot where you make painfully sure that her (name removed by moderator)ut is there and that you’ve done all you could, but you are not allowing her to behave like a child (and be actually lazy as opposed to demotivated or depressed or weak).

Once again, I’d consider the possibility of some kind of depression or other issues making her act like that, by which I mean before pregnancy (as long as that wasn’t shortly after another pregnancy). Pregnancy can be very taxing.
 
Actually I bought that book, thinking it was about being married to someone with ADHD, but the title is somewhat unclear…It’s more about how to handle the lifestyle we now have, with all the distractions away from true relationship with others, especially our spouses. I love the book but not for the reason I bought it. It’s much more applicable to everyone than what I thought it might be.
Thanks to both of you for this suggestion–I’ll look for the book.
 
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