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Priest abuse victims want criminal investigation of church leaders
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NPC
Guest
Obviously, one cannot but be saddened to hear of all the cases of horrific sexual abuse which have come to light over the past number of years (and especially this past week in Ireland). However, I am dismayed at the way VOTF members and others made their protest - using posters of alleged abusers. Certainly those guilty of abuse should be pursued, but this is a different matter. It is interesting how tables turn once it’s Catholic priests who are involved - one wonders that if those people on the posters were laypersons, would the media (and others) be telling the protesters that this is not an appropriate way to protest, or that they could be in danger of libel actions. It seems that any Catholic priest is fair-game…
In todays edition of The Irish Catholic, Mr David Quinn made a point about the recent arrest of film director Roman Polanski in Switzerland for the rape of a 13 year-old girl 30 years ago. He noted that many European politicians and “many of the great and the good of Hollywood” came to his defence. Mr Quinn said simply, “We know how they would have reacted if he had been Fr Polanski instead”. I think this says it all.
Also, this has nothing to do with the right or wrong of VOTF’s demands, but one must remember that they are most certainly not a Catholic organisation, though they may claim to be. More and more bishops are denying VOTF the right to meet on Church property. Archbishop John Myers of Newark said VOTF is “anti-Church, and ultimately, anti-Catholic”. Bishop William Lori of Bridgeport, Conn. said that VOTF threatened to tear the Church apart by promoting “private dissenting opinions”. Source.
So, one thing we can rely on from VOTF is that they will gladly reinforce any anti-Catholic bias which circulates in the popular media.
In todays edition of The Irish Catholic, Mr David Quinn made a point about the recent arrest of film director Roman Polanski in Switzerland for the rape of a 13 year-old girl 30 years ago. He noted that many European politicians and “many of the great and the good of Hollywood” came to his defence. Mr Quinn said simply, “We know how they would have reacted if he had been Fr Polanski instead”. I think this says it all.
Also, this has nothing to do with the right or wrong of VOTF’s demands, but one must remember that they are most certainly not a Catholic organisation, though they may claim to be. More and more bishops are denying VOTF the right to meet on Church property. Archbishop John Myers of Newark said VOTF is “anti-Church, and ultimately, anti-Catholic”. Bishop William Lori of Bridgeport, Conn. said that VOTF threatened to tear the Church apart by promoting “private dissenting opinions”. Source.
So, one thing we can rely on from VOTF is that they will gladly reinforce any anti-Catholic bias which circulates in the popular media.
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fish90
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When will news about the sexual abuse scandal end? Only God can make good come from this horrible moment in Church history.
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Darryl1958
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It is criminal behavior. It is a dereliction of police duty when such behavior is allowed to perpetuate.
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whatevergirl
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*I agree. I love the Catholic Church…but, criminal activity went on for decades! Unfortunately, I see this going on for a long time…
The problem I have with the media’s ‘‘portrayal’’ of these scandals is that they don’t separate the faith from what these men did. There are sinners everywhere, the Church Herself didn’t condone this behavior. The behavior was at the hands of some very misguided men. But the media broad brushes the Church, and infers that the Church is filled with corruption.
I dislike how the media has handled this. So, in that sense, I agree with the Polinski comparison. But, I don’t disagree with the investigation of the Church officials involved with the scandals. *
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Hopemercy
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A newly ordained young priest boasted to us recently that “compared to other organisations. we did not do badly re child abuse…”
As we said very firmly, it is far, far worse when it is coming from THE CHURCH; Even ONE abused child is a total scandal; we need to be pure and beyond any reproach if we are to set ourselves up as morality teachers.
We must have higher standards and a total intolerance of any abuse if we are to be as Christ; and that surely means bringing offenders to justice… see Matthew 18.
Smal wonder the media are on the warpath; no one can blame thenm. For generations here in ireland, the Church dictated and enforced a rigid and often cruel “morality” when all the time they were abusing and officially sanctioning abuse.
The term “whited sepuchres” comes to mind.
And yes, the Church in Ireland is full of corruption. This is a small country and almost everyone knew what was going on and said nothing. That too is sin.
And we are all a part of the same Body as we are all a part pf this disgrace.
These men and women were acting AS THE CHURCH and still are.
And yes, we love the Church too; and we hurt now because our trust in the Irish Church has gone totally.
Thankfully our trust in Jesus is intact. And thankfully we are here for those poor beleauguered people here whose trust has been shattered.
As we said very firmly, it is far, far worse when it is coming from THE CHURCH; Even ONE abused child is a total scandal; we need to be pure and beyond any reproach if we are to set ourselves up as morality teachers.
We must have higher standards and a total intolerance of any abuse if we are to be as Christ; and that surely means bringing offenders to justice… see Matthew 18.
Smal wonder the media are on the warpath; no one can blame thenm. For generations here in ireland, the Church dictated and enforced a rigid and often cruel “morality” when all the time they were abusing and officially sanctioning abuse.
The term “whited sepuchres” comes to mind.
And yes, the Church in Ireland is full of corruption. This is a small country and almost everyone knew what was going on and said nothing. That too is sin.
And we are all a part of the same Body as we are all a part pf this disgrace.
These men and women were acting AS THE CHURCH and still are.
And yes, we love the Church too; and we hurt now because our trust in the Irish Church has gone totally.
Thankfully our trust in Jesus is intact. And thankfully we are here for those poor beleauguered people here whose trust has been shattered.
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NPC
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There may be a difference in that his victim did not want to pursue criminal charges, but that’s not really to the point of the example that Mr Quinn gave in his article. Can you imagine if the victims of clerical abuse stated publicly that they did not wish for the authorities to pursue abusers in order to charge them - do you think that the media would let even one abuser to quietly get on with his life? I don’t. They would be hounded by the media. The point is that, whether the victim in Polanski’s case wanted charges brought or not, if it was Father Polanski the media would have had several field days on his case.
Now, don’t get me wrong - I’m not saying that the perpetrators of such disgusting and criminal acts should not be pursued. I know that these people were put in positions of power and people should have been able to trust our bishops and priests. But, like what Whatevergirl said, these people were individuals, not the entire Universal Church, the Body of Christ. However the generalisations that the media make are disturbing, though not surprising - I mean, we have people in the media comparing the Church to the Mafia and big crime-lords. When the media partake in such generalisations, they include all Catholics. The media encourage a frenzy of irrational responses from certain members of the public too - it gives a chance to kick the Church while it’s down. For example, assertions that the Church must be driven out of education and Catholic hospitals, that ending compulsory celibacy is the answer, that women priests are the answer…
In his article, Mr Quinn (who made several interesting points) concluded by listing the four factors which came into play in this horrible litany of abuse:
“The first is cowardice. They didn’t want to make the tough decisions necessary to bring matters under control.
The second is the instinct of self-protection. They didn’t want the scandals to become public because they would harm the Church.
The third is a failure to properly apply and abide by the Gospel. This is self explanatory.
The fourth is possibly the worst of all; clericalism, that is the all-too-human tendency to favour your own kind and to make every excuse for them.
These scandals are explainable in ways that apply to other institutions that have experienced similar scandals, and covered them up.
The attempt to explain them, with reference to the particular characteristics of Catholicism, is no more and no less than anti-Catholicism and it should be recognised as such” (www.irishcatholic.ie)
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rep140
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one wonders that if those people on the posters were laypersons, would the media (and others) be telling the protesters that this is not an appropriate way to protest,
I agree that the Catholic Church gets hounded more than the lay person or some other organization. But then again, listen to this: Other churches are not churches, but ecclesial communities. Some Lutherans may think they have the real presence, but they don’t, etc. Think of what you would think if you were not Catholic, heard these claims, then witnessed the Church’s behavior in this scandal.
Yes, the Church should be judged by a higher standard.
I agree that the Catholic Church gets hounded more than the lay person or some other organization. But then again, listen to this: Other churches are not churches, but ecclesial communities. Some Lutherans may think they have the real presence, but they don’t, etc. Think of what you would think if you were not Catholic, heard these claims, then witnessed the Church’s behavior in this scandal.
Yes, the Church should be judged by a higher standard.
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NPC
Guest
I obviously don’t disagree that the perpetrators of these vile acts should be brought to justice - I think we all agree on that. Indeed, given the extremely high pedestal that Irish society put the clergy up on and the trust which was given to them, they will necessarily be judged by a higher standard - and their fall from grace will be greater, given the heights from which some will fall. However, my point is that whatever crime anyone has committed they have a right to “due process” - if nothing else, the protesters run the risk of libel actions if the legal system does not pursue a case, indeed their protests could in some way prejudice cases which may be brought in the future. If these protests were found to have prejudiced a case in some way, it could eliminate the possibility of some victims ever getting justice. Everyone - be it teacher, guard, priest, nurse, builder…- has the right to be tried in a fair manner by the law of the land, not by a lynching mob in the court of public opinion.
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cyberwolf001
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It will continue as long as Priest keep abuseing children.
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Scoobyshme
Guest
And therein lies the problem. When the media reports “new” allegations, they’re usually from decades of abuse, but treated as a “new finding” as if it all happened yesterday and is continuing to happen. In other words, there is a lie being portrayed by the media. If the media really was that concerned about abused children, they’d have spent the majority of their efforts and focus on where the majority of the problem is, i.e., in school systems, where the same exact probem existed, but five times greater or more. Yet, you don’t see school systems being paraded in the media or being sued en-mass by the victims. Why would that be, you suppose?
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cyberwolf001
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Just because it happened some time ago doesn’t make it not a crime. Just because it’s the Catholic Church doing the cover ups doesn’t make it right. These are new allegations in the sense that it is coming to light now.
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Scoobyshme
Guest
I would be willing to bet that the media knows about all of it. They’ve set a schedule to let each one “come to light” according to the schedule to give the impression that this stuff is still going on. Never do you hear that not that long ago the psychiatrists and psychologists to whom the bishops sent these wayward priests believed that this was curable and would send these guys back “cured.” All this happened, and IS STILL HAPPENING in our school systems about 500% more than within the Church, but you hear hardly a peep. Nothing. Nada. Why? They’re still shuffling teachers around to different schools who get caught. Where’s the national media’s outrage? Where are the lawsuits from people wanting to cash in?
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Catholic1954
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Why doesn’t the media call for investigations of the leaders of non-Catholic churches, of the Boy Scouts, the public school system, the Big Brothers of America, NAMBLA and all the mommies out there who stood by and let stepfathers and boyfriends molest their young children right in the home? Why does only the Catholic Church need to be investigated?
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dixieagle
Guest
That would be because public school systems are not representatives of Christ on earth, nor do they claim to be.
Those who hate the Church are having a field day with the ammunition handed to them on a silver platter by abusive clerics and the members of the hierarchy who aided and abetted them with their silence and cover-ups.
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rep140
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That would be because public school systems are not representatives of Christ on earth, nor do they claim to be.
You hit the nail on the head.
You hit the nail on the head.
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babyjesus
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Ockham
Guest
Pedophiles are in every group near children. We can improve our measures, but no one can guarantee another priest won’t be accused or guilty of this horrible crime.
Many of these cases weren’t pedophilia as the victims were young adolescent boys.
The Church was acting on the advice of the psychology of the time. That sex offenders could be rehabilitated.
Hollywood and the media never miss a chance to attack the Church because the Church stands for morality.
Pedophilia does not carry a life sentence in most countries. Therefore the judicial system acts just like the bishops did in releasing a known sex offender back into the community. The hypocrisy is truly sad.
Many of these cases weren’t pedophilia as the victims were young adolescent boys.
The Church was acting on the advice of the psychology of the time. That sex offenders could be rehabilitated.
Hollywood and the media never miss a chance to attack the Church because the Church stands for morality.
Pedophilia does not carry a life sentence in most countries. Therefore the judicial system acts just like the bishops did in releasing a known sex offender back into the community. The hypocrisy is truly sad.
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