Priest abuse victims want criminal investigation of church leaders

[karoleck]

There are many aspects Lemonbeam to this sorry situation.The victims of abuse particularly where innocent children were concerned, is a very sad situation and I can well understand the anger generated from this.One of the reasons that Bishops in the past shifted these sick priests was that they wrongly thought that since the offenders were sorry for their sins,they would not reoffend–they were mistaken (and often supported by the psychological profession at that time). It is only in the recent years that psychological research has found that child abusers cannot be easily cured.Most Bishops were products of their times where sexual matters generally, were not up to open forums in society and in families.Even now a wonderful woman called Anne Lastman and writer of the book Redeeming Grief www.Victimsofabortion.com.au in her newsletter Broken Branches, tells how some subscribers withdrew support because she highlighted a story linking abortion and child abuse.So do not think that we are all that open to uncomfortable truths of child abuse even now ,which by all reports is rampant in our societies.The only exception ,as far as the news media is concerned is where the Catholic Church members are the culprits.Yes,this sin is of such gravity that Jesus condemns those who lead His "little ones"astray with very harsh words.
The other aspect is “professional misconduct” were sexual activity occurs between adults.Where it involves women,it is a natural though sinful situation;if homosexual then it is unnatural as well.
I cannot see how The Bishop can be accountable as regards a criminal investigation,this would not be just in my view.For example if a person works for some organization such as Wall Mart and that person sexually abuses someone.There is no way in the world the The Directors would be up for criminal charges!I have no doubt that some Bishops were and still are very confused on what their roles as true shepards really entails and do the devils work unfortunatly.But the solution as Christs’faithful, is not to want or support criminal investigations . If there is a serious misconduct or abuse by church leaders,these matters should be brought to the attention to The Congregation for The Clergy in Rome.We should keep all our Bishops,Priests in our daily prayers and support the good ones.

 

[DOShea]

The real damage to the Church is that it turns those who are supposedly “the faithful” into a living mockery of everything they supposedly represent. Where is the Catholic stepping forward to offer forgiveness to these clergy who have sinned, mighty though be that sin, as opposed to the long line of Catholics who want to lament only the damage these clerics have caused and how much grief and suffering abounds from it?

Tell me, how would a child in preparation for first Holy Communion and his first Sacrament of Reconciliation believe that God will forgive us no matter the trespass when he’s surrounded by people who speak a lot about justice, investigations, giving them what they deserve, but NOT anything remotely like forgiving? Children learn from what you do far more than anything you ever say. So do others outside the Catholic faith.

Do not forget the victims also, who must come to grips with this evil and become forgivers themselves if they want to become whole again. A little example in this direction might go a long way in helping their healing.

I think it causes more damage in the long run to focus on comeuppance than forgiveness. Justice really doesn’t belong to us, it belongs to God. Why not trust Him to see it done?

 

[Ockham]

Without trying to sound cynical or never diminishing the turmoil experienced by the victims, lets not forget money is a major motivator. Why don’t victims of sex offenders the court system releases back into the community sue the court or government?

 

[Rico_S]

Many of these cases weren’t pedophilia as the victims were young adolescent boys.

whew! That is good to know, b/c I thougth these priests were guilty of committing a heinous abuse of power to seduce 8 year old boys to fullfil their sexual desires. Abusing their positions as representatives of Christ on earth to fondle 14 year old boys isn’t really so bad.

The Church was acting on the advice of the psychology of the time. That sex offenders could be rehabilitated

Psychology of the time advised it was not necessary to report criminal activities of sexual predators to authorities?

Hollywood and the media never miss a chance to attack the Church because the Church stands for morality.

Don’t you see, it is precisely b/c the Church is supposed to be the pillar of morality of the world that this is so damaging to the Church. Do you expect the media to put this stuff on the back page? What do you think the consequences of the media not pursuing the sex abuse scandal so aggressively would be? Be honest.

 

[Ockham]

Don’t you see, it is precisely b/c the Church is supposed to be the pillar of morality of the world that this is so damaging to the Church. Do you expect the media to put this stuff on the back page? What do you think the consequences of the media not pursuing the sex abuse scandal so aggressively would be? Be honest.

I agree that the Church should be a leader in preaching and practicing morality, but the reality is we can never guarantee evil won’t strike from within. If the media is so objective why don’t they report abuse in Protestant, Jewish, and Islamic communities with such vigour?

I also agree that it is no less a sin to abuse a fourteen year old rather than younger, but it isn’t pedophilia, that is homosexuality.

 

[Scoobyshme]

Without trying to sound cynical or never diminishing the turmoil experienced by the victims, lets not forget money is a major motivator. Why don’t victims of sex offenders the court system releases back into the community sue the court or government?

Possibly because one cannot sue the U.S. government without permission of the U.S. government. Convenient, eh?

The other thing is that I think there’s a distinct possibility that at least some of these “victims” are not really victims but greedy people looking for money at the Church’s expense. I still don’t understand the money being handed out to these people decades after the fact. I really don’t. If they have mental/emotional problems because of it, sure, have the Church pay for counselling. But basically having them win the lottery? How will that reverse the damage? It won’t. It’s greed, I think.

 

[dixieagle]

I agree that the Church should be a leader in preaching and practicing morality, but the reality is we can never guarantee evil won’t strike from within. If the media is so objective why don’t they report abuse in Protestant, Jewish, and Islamic communities with such vigour?

For a number of reasons.

Catholicism is the single largest denomination in this country (and also in Ireland, the site of the latest big revelations) and it is unique in its celibacy requirement, which seems downright peculiar to those of other faiths (or no faith). When the clergy and hierarchy of a church that is perceived to have very strict teachings about sexuality misbehave in so horrendous a fashion, it is, to most people, newsworthy.

Here are just a few examples of recent coverage in very mainstream media of instances of abuse in the Orthodox Jewish community in NYC:

abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=7376057&page=1

nytimes.com/2009/10/14/nyregion/14abuse.html

Protestant denominations, as pointed out in this source from the insurance industry, are considerably less centralized and therefore, it is harder to pin down the numbers of allegations:

insurancejournal.com/news/national/2007/06/18/80877.htm

I also agree that it is no less a sin to abuse a fourteen year old rather than younger, but it isn’t pedophilia, that is homosexuality.

That is called ephebophilia, the attraction to mid to late adolescents, which can be either homosexual or heterosexual; the John Jay report indicates that in most Catholic clergy abuse cases, clearly it was homosexual. This attraction may be the result of stunted psychosexual development in the ephebophile (as apparently was the case with some of the boys who, in decades past, entered minor seminaries quite young, before having had time to develop a healthy view of their own sexuality.)

There is also that elephant in the room - the homosexual orientation of a significant number - estimates range from 10-60% - of homosexuals in the Catholic clergy. The following article gives a close look at the situation:

boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/stories/042802_focus.htm

 

[Lutheranteach]

And therein lies the problem. When the media reports “new” allegations, they’re usually from decades of abuse, but treated as a “new finding” as if it all happened yesterday and is continuing to happen. In other words, there is a lie being portrayed by the media. If the media really was that concerned about abused children, they’d have spent the majority of their efforts and focus on where the majority of the problem is, i.e., in school systems, where the same exact probem existed, but five times greater or more. Yet, you don’t see school systems being paraded in the media or being sued en-mass by the victims. Why would that be, you suppose?

The Church made classic PR blunders with this and is suffering the consequences.

Instead of getting ahead of it, coming forward, and telling all. It was hidden, dismissed, downplayed, dealt with in ways that made those who were victimized victimized again because of being sworn to silence, etc. The way to deal with this kind of thing is to really come out and say.

A) It’s our fault
B) We’re going to hunt down the guilty and turn them over to the police, and we’re going to tun over those who covered this up
C) We’re going to do our best to help those we hurt in a fair and transparent manner, not drag things out and claim bankruptcy every time we lose in court
D) Here is what we’re going to do to make sure this never happens again

 

[dixieagle]

The Church made classic PR blunders with this and is suffering the consequences.

Instead of getting ahead of it, coming forward, and telling all. It was hidden, dismissed, downplayed, dealt with in ways that made those who were victimized victimized again because of being sworn to silence, etc. The way to deal with this kind of thing is to really come out and say.

A) It’s our fault
B) We’re going to hunt down the guilty and turn them over to the police, and we’re going to tun over those who covered this up
C) We’re going to do our best to help those we hurt in a fair and transparent manner, not drag things out and claim bankruptcy every time we lose in court
D) Here is what we’re going to do to make sure this never happens again

Excellent summation. It’s what we must expect and demand from the Church.

 

[AnotherVoice]

I think a better summarization possibly would be:

A. We completely disapprove of this type of behavior and will not defend any individual who has participated or has been complacent in this despicable behavior.

B. We have contacted the authorities and will work diligently with them to get to the bottom of this issue and punish all who were involved.

C. We will work closely with authorities and the court system to aid and recompense the victims of any of these travesties.

D. We have implemented a program of enhanced controls directed at not only uncovering additional occasions of improper behavior but also to prevent this type of behavior in the future. This program is posted on our web site and we welcome comments and suggestions.

 

[joannazenobia]

Don’t you see, it is precisely b/c the Church is supposed to be the pillar of morality of the world that this is so damaging to the Church. Do you expect the media to put this stuff on the back page? What do you think the consequences of the media not pursuing the sex abuse scandal so aggressively would be? Be honest.

This is precisely what Jesus warned his disciples about. When you become one of his followers, be prepared to take a beating by your family, your peers, your neighboors, your leaders, etc. For the time he was living in, popular opinion was strongly against him and the apostles. Much like it is now against our church. We are the body of Christ. Getting a beating in the media, is a sacrifice as a Catholic.

This has been going on since day one, except it has taken on different forms. Whenever a situation presents itself needing God’s grace, whether its an individual or organization or like the situation in Ireland, all at once, many obstacles out of nowhere present themselves. Light has been shed on the situation in Ireland. Now God is testing the rest of us.

 

[elts1956]

What is the law regarding prosecuting wrongdoing priests by secular law? Wasn’t this what Henry II and St. Thomas Becket disagreed over resulting in Becket’s death? Henry wanted the defrocked priests tried in secular court for various crimes, usury? and Becket wouldn’t step down. He said he had a duty to defend his clergy.

Okay to protect but not okay to keep moving them around letting them commit sin after sin. The mentality of the day was rehabilitation, confess and repent, but they forgot the “sin no more”.

 

[Pondero]

After reading about cover-ups of clerical abuse by bishops both in the USA and Ireland, (The Murphy Report) I think that the only thing that would satisfy the protesters who are enraged, and rightly so, as it is a horrible scandal is that the bishops be lined up against a wall and shot.
I say this after being on other websites where Irish men have had their say about cover-ups and in many cases it is lapsed Catholics who protest most loudly. Now, where is Christian charity in all this.

Of course the bishops should be held to account and punished by resigning or according to law, because this was an awful crime, but there are reasons for their actions which have been given earlier on this thread. The main reason being that the perpetrators of abuse where sent for psychiatric treatment and that they could be cured. Hindsight shows that that advice was wrong.

How do we stop pedophilia happening in the future? I think that is the most important question. When pedophilia of a youngster started and then continued into teen years the perpetrator is a homosexual, and many of the priests were homosexual who did those things. Therefore, one way would be to stop homosexuals entering the priesthood. I believe this is now done in Canada.

 

[Ockham]

Read “Goodbye Good Men” by Michael Rose for an understanding of how homosexuality invaded the seminaries.

 

[CatholicGuy22]

This is realy a bad time to be a catholic every one is out to get us. i just hate that people think that what a couple priests did means that the whole church is pedophile central. These priest are just humans like me and you they make mistakes instead of condeming them, how about praying for them?

 

[AnotherVoice]

What is the law regarding prosecuting wrongdoing priests by secular law? Wasn’t this what Henry II and St. Thomas Becket disagreed over resulting in Becket’s death? Henry wanted the defrocked priests tried in secular court for various crimes, usury? and Becket wouldn’t step down. He said he had a duty to defend his clergy.

Okay to protect but not okay to keep moving them around letting them commit sin after sin. The mentality of the day was rehabilitation, confess and repent, but they forgot the “sin no more”.

Priests, in most repects, here in the U.S. are subject to the law just as any other citizen. Also, in a number of states, persons in positions of authority in organizations that deal with children are identified as “required reporters”; if they reasonably suspect child abuse they are required, under penalty of law, to notify civil authorities. So it is not okay to protect.

 

[Aramis]

It will continue as long as Priest keep abuseing children.

Keep in mind: the statistics show that, by comparison to the Southern Baptist Conference, the Catholic Church has a much safer system. FAR more baptist ministers molest children, and far more baptist ministers violate the 6th commandment with their parishioners than even the most egregious catholic dioceses.

Sexual abuse and adulterous liaison by ministers abusing their power are endemic to all religions. It’s only the deep pockets that the church has (mostly in land) that make it lawsuit worthy; the average SBC minister, you might get his house, and after lawyers , maybe $30-60K. Settle for a milion+ with the Church, and hit 10x that.

And I have good reason to believe one such suit is a fabrication by a demented jerk. The priest in question had some inappropriate behaviors, yes (Letting teens raid his beer, for example, and shooting pool over beers in the rectory)… but the police investigated his initial complaints, and the officers, the psychiatrist, and the DA found the young man to be non-credible in his complaint in the 1980’s… Heck, we, his peers, didn’t believe him; he wasn’t right in the head… a disgruntled ex-altar server with delusions… and yet, 20 years later, he sued and the church settled… despite the reams of documentation that there was no evidence of molestation.

 

[LutheranDK]

I think one, and just one, of the differences is that Polanski and his victim have reached a civil settlement and she has said very publicly that she has no interest in the pursuit of criminal charges.

Oh, but if he had been Fr Polanski, that would not have mattered.
It would have been “She’s being bullied into settlement/making those statements”.

 

[redrosetea]

I think a better summarization possibly would be:

A. We completely disapprove of this type of behavior and will not defend any individual who has participated or has been complacent in this despicable behavior.

B. We have contacted the authorities and will work diligently with them to get to the bottom of this issue and punish all who were involved.

C. We will work closely with authorities and the court system to aid and recompense the victims of any of these travesties.

D. We have implemented a program of enhanced controls directed at not only uncovering additional occasions of improper behavior but also to prevent this type of behavior in the future. This program is posted on our web site and we welcome comments and suggestions.

I certainly agree…the hunting down sounds like a mob with pitch forks and torches…We are still civilized and Christian, and must work in co-operation with legal authorities in a Christ like manner…we are not a mob of vigilantees