Priest Approval to Marry

[Luckyclovette]

**Ok, so I accidently started this thread in the “Traditional Catholicism,” so if you want to take a look at what was written thus far, that is where it started.

so, we have always talked about marriage, as many couples do. Why bother dating if you never plan to marry and have a family? I have been very clear that I am Catholic , I attend mass weekly, I pray daily, and will need to raise my children Catholic and I will need to be married in a Catholic church and I won’t have sex until I am married. I found someone who is OK with all these things. He is NOT Catholic. He doesn’t practice any religion. He was baptized Lutheren.

Now we are really talking marriage! And now I am terrified that a priest will not marry us. We live together “as brother and sister” do. We have not been intimate with each other as husband and wife. We sleep in separate bedrooms in the house. I have read many forums where people said they lied about living together so the priest would marry them. I don’t want to lie to the priest!

I am more concerned with the “living together” issues versus him being a non-practicing baptized Lutheran. I hear that when people say “living together” or “cohabitating” that the church assumes that the 2 are “intimate” with each other. I have heard some say that if you live together as “brother & sister,” that in and of itself is not the sin.

It is so important to me that we marry in the church. But I am so afraid that the priest will not marry us.

Any insight on my situation?**

 

[Xantippe]

I think you should make an appointment to talk to a priest about your situation.

How old are you, by the way, and what does your family think about all of this?

The reason that living separately before marriage is a big deal is that there needs to be freedom to choose to marry or not marry. If you feel like you “have to marry” him because otherwise you’ll be out on the street and he’s going to keep the furniture you bought together, then you aren’t freely choosing to marry. Freely choosing to marry is essential for a valid Catholic marriage. It’s not just a bureaucratic or a sex thing.

 

[EasterJoy]

It depends on your diocese. In ours, I believe the policy is that while you would be highly encouraged to live apart prior to marriage, it is not a condition for recognizing the couple has a right to marry (unless there is any reason to believe there is a situations of duress).

Why are you living together with your boyfriend, when you know it is a scandal and a near occasion of sin? Whatever induced you to move in in the first place? You’re going to want to explain this to your pastor, because the closer you get to your wedding date the harder it is going to be to remain chaste. Certainly most adults would not reasonably conclude that two unchaperoned adults who live together and intend marriage are remaining chaste. That would be naïve, even if the ones who are charitable would hope they are wrong and pray that the most likely situation isn’t the actual situation.

Even if you are in some way chaperoned (such as having other adults living in the house) and no matter what you say, that is the impression you give. More to the point, you encourage others to do the same, and very few can remain chaste under that arrangement.

 

[Xantippe]

It depends on your diocese. In ours, I believe the policy is that while you would be highly encouraged to live apart prior to marriage, it is not a condition for recognizing the couple has a right to marry (unless there is any reason to believe there is a situations of duress).

Why are you living together with your boyfriend, when you know it is a scandal and a near occasion of sin? Whatever induced you to move in in the first place? You’re going to want to explain this to your pastor, because the closer you get to your wedding date the harder it is going to be to remain chaste. Certainly most adults would not reasonably conclude that two unchaperoned adults who live together and intend marriage are remaining chaste. That would be naïve, even if the ones who are charitable would hope they are wrong and pray that the most likely situation isn’t the actual situation.

Even if you are in some way chaperoned (such as having other adults living in the house) and no matter what you say, that is the impression you give. More to the point, you encourage others to do the same, and very few can remain chaste under that arrangement.

There’s also the issue that if it really hasn’t been hard to be chaste while living together for a long time, that may suggest the presence of some sort of sexual issues that would make a normal happy marriage difficult–homosexuality, asexuality, heavy porn use, etc.

OP, I’m not saying that that’s necessarily the case, but if I had a daughter in your shoes, I would have a hard time not mentioning those possibilities.

 

[Luckyclovette]

I think you should make an appointment to talk to a priest about your situation.

How old are you, by the way, and what does your family think about all of this?

The reason that living separately before marriage is a big deal is that there needs to be freedom to choose to marry or not marry. If you feel like you “have to marry” him because otherwise you’ll be out on the street and he’s going to keep the furniture you bought together, then you aren’t freely choosing to marry. Freely choosing to marry is essential for a valid Catholic marriage. It’s not just a bureaucratic or a sex thing.

I am 33 years old. My family hasn’t given any (name removed by moderator)ut about this. I’m not sure what that has to do with it though? This is between us and God.

 

[Xantippe]

I am 33 years old. My family hasn’t given any (name removed by moderator)ut about this. I’m not sure what that has to do with it though? This is between us and God.

Sorry, you sounded a lot younger than that–I thought you might be a very young adult (18 or 19) that had moved straight out of the family home into a boyfriend’s apartment. In that case, family (name removed by moderator)ut wouldn’t be unreasonable.

 

[Luckyclovette]

Why are you living together with your boyfriend, when you know it is a scandal and a near occasion of sin? Whatever induced you to move in in the first place? You’re going to want to explain this to your pastor, because the closer you get to your wedding date the harder it is going to be to remain chaste. Certainly most adults would not reasonably conclude that two unchaperoned adults who live together and intend marriage are remaining chaste. That would be naïve, even if the ones who are charitable would hope they are wrong and pray that the most likely situation isn’t the actual situation.

Even if you are in some way chaperoned (such as having other adults living in the house) and no matter what you say, that is the impression you give. More to the point, you encourage others to do the same, and very few can remain chaste under that arrangement.

I am asking for kind advice. I ask kindly that you do not “attack” me. As I strongly believe that it is not our jobs to judge one another’s actions. Furthermore, I have no reason to lie on a public anonymous forum. So, please do not allude to that. I do not appreciate that. Please do unto others as you would have done unto you. I do not ask for your judgement.

 

[white_sheep]

I doubt that you will have any problems. You will probably need to explain the situation to the priest, as is normal. They always ask any number of questions prior to and during marriage prep.

 

[Xantippe]

I am asking for kind advice. I ask kindly that you do not “attack” me. As I strongly believe that it is not our jobs to judge one another’s actions. Furthermore, I have no reason to lie on a public anonymous forum. So, please do not allude to that. I do not appreciate that. Please do unto others as you would have done unto you. I do not ask for your judgement.

EJ isn’t being judgy, at least not to my ear. Judgy sounds A LOT worse than that.

I have to add that I personally can’t throw a lot of stones at you. My husband and I did a good job with premarital chastity and spent a lot of alone time with each other at each other’s homes (including a lot of overnights). However, many years later, I do wish that we’d worked harder on maintaining the appearance of virtue, rather than just virtue itself. As EJ points out, it’s important to give a good example. When you’re in love and the whole outside world seems to disappear, it can be hard to remember that there are other people out there, struggling with their sins and temptations, and they need all the help they can get from your good example.

Also (and I think this is important) for your case, we had a very fast courtship, so we had relatively little time to get into trouble. We also maintained separate homes (we each had a little studio) the whole time, as I recall.

If you do want to get married and you want the best possible start, move your boyfriend out into the cheapest possible home (a studio or a rented room) and start premarital counseling. If what’s available in your area is so-so (I’ve heard a lot of negative stuff about the big intense one-and-done weekends), pick up a book of premarital counseling questions and work through it together over a long period of time. You probably also eventually ought to discuss in detail Catholic teachings about marriage and sexuality and make sure that your boyfriend understands everything and is on board. A John Gottman book or two is a very good idea, also.

Again, talk to your pastor.

 

[Kelfa28]

All you can do is talk to a priest and see what he says.

It really depends on the diocese and sometimes down to the Parish level.

My husband and I were living together before we got married. The difference is…we converted when we found out we were pregnant.

We talked to two different priests…one at the Parish that became our home Parish and another at the Parish where we got married.
We also talked to the Parish director at the home Parish we attend.

Given our circumstances…everyone agreed it was in our best interest not to separate and continue living together before the wedding.
They did not believe it was wise to split us up…especially since I was quite pregnant and was due to have the baby before our wedding date.

It was up to us to stay chaste until the wedding…and we did that.

Some diocese and Parishes will say specifically on their websites that they will not marry anyone who are already living together.

They want to make sure that the people they are marrying are ready for marriage…and frankly, cohabitating clearly states that you aren’t ready for marriage.

But there may be circumstances…like mine…that need to be factored in.
So, a Priest will be able to answer your questions and make a decision about marrying you.

 

[Luckyclovette]

Some diocese and Parishes will say specifically on their websites that they will not marry anyone who are already living together.

**I feel as I read these responses that I am on a roller coaster. my heart goes from having glimpses of hope to dropping to the pit of my stomach.

A church stating that on their website encourages people to lie. Then one person will simply use someone else’s address in order to get a priest to marry them. I have known 2 couples who have told me that this is what they had to do to get married in the Catholic Church. I don’t want to do this! I feel it is one sin to cover up another sin.

Regarding Diocese, I am in the Archdiocese of New York. I am in the Hudson Valley. But I feel it is more of a “personal” decision that the priest makes??? I hear some people will go from priest to priest to see who will marry them.

I honestly don’t know **

 

[ToeInTheWater]

**I feel as I read these responses that I am on a roller coaster. my heart goes from having glimpses of hope to dropping to the pit of my stomach.

A church stating that on their website encourages people to lie. Then one person will simply use someone else’s address in order to get a priest to marry them. I have known 2 couples who have told me that this is what they had to do to get married in the Catholic Church. I don’t want to do this! I feel it is one sin to cover up another sin.

Regarding Diocese, I am in the Archdiocese of New York. I am in the Hudson Valley. But I feel it is more of a “personal” decision that the priest makes??? I hear some people will go from priest to priest to see who will marry them.

I honestly don’t know **

Luckyclovette: I could refer to Catholics I know in real life, but I won’t, because I think the first step is to STOP relying on anonymous Internet replies and actually talk to a priest in person. Don’t rely on hearsay or anecdotal reports.

Though I will point out (since you’re new here and may not know), (name removed by moderator) is an actual Catholic deacon, so I think his report that 80% of couples in his marriage ministry are cohabiting in the full sense of the word, is accurate.

 

[agapewolf]

Here’s an idea: take priests advice, because it is wise. Don’t be looking for a way around it.

Move out.

And be praying a lot about not sharing your faith with a spouse.

 

[FrDavid96]

**I feel as I read these responses that I am on a roller coaster. my heart goes from having glimpses of hope to dropping to the pit of my stomach.

A church stating that on their website encourages people to lie. Then one person will simply use someone else’s address in order to get a priest to marry them. I have known 2 couples who have told me that this is what they had to do to get married in the Catholic Church. I don’t want to do this! I feel it is one sin to cover up another sin.

Regarding Diocese, I am in the Archdiocese of New York. I am in the Hudson Valley. But I feel it is more of a “personal” decision that the priest makes??? I hear some people will go from priest to priest to see who will marry them.

I honestly don’t know **

Please don’t be discouraged by comments you might be reading here or elsewhere.

People are jumping to all kinds of conclusions based on what they “think” you’re saying rather than on what you’re actually writing here.

Just talk to your priest. That’s the best thing you can do. Ignore the websites. Ignore the anecdotal stories from others.

I can see that you’re anxious. When you actually go and talk to your priest, you’ll find so much of that anxiety lifted.

Like the good deacon just posted, you’ll hardly be the first couple to approach a priest about marriage while you’re living at the same address. The Church’s ministers want to help you—not be an obstacle to marriage.

 

[EasterJoy]

I am asking for kind advice. I ask kindly that you do not “attack” me. As I strongly believe that it is not our jobs to judge one another’s actions. Furthermore, I have no reason to lie on a public anonymous forum. So, please do not allude to that. I do not appreciate that. Please do unto others as you would have done unto you. I do not ask for your judgement.

Oh, but I am doing unto others as I would have them do unto me. Your pastor will, too. In the vast majority of cases, it is objectively a scandal and a near occasion of sin for two people contemplating marriage to be co-habitating, particularly if they are doing it without a chaperone of any kind. You are not the first to try this strategy. The “experiment” has been conducted many times. The body of results to date should not encourage you to continue. The closer you get to your wedding date, the more difficult your situation is going to become.

I asked you what your case was, why your case is different, and what induced you to get into what is objectively an irregular situation at the very least. Your reaction is defensive. This suggests that you do not have a reason that your case is different. Maybe you do, maybe you don’t. That is not the point. The point is that considering your objective situation, you ought to expect that clarification is needed. People who care about the state of your soul are going to ask. They ought to ask, and you ought to expect to be asked.

By the way, it is not judgmental to admonish someone who is in an objectively sinful situation. I don’t know enough about you to know if you are in such a situation, as exceptional situations do exist, but to admonish the sinner is one of the spiritual works of mercy. Admonishing someone who is unwittingly being careless about avoiding sin is a spiritual work of mercy. Certainly someone who inquires about your situation is not automatically attacking you. You would do well not to take it that way.

The chances are that the priest will inquire about whether you two really need to live together. The chances are that he will highly encourage you to find separate places to live until you do marry. The chances are, however, that he will not try to make this a condition of agreeing to officiate at your wedding. Do not get defensive about this. He is only doing what his position as the pastor of your soul requires that he do. There is a reason that the Church exists, and one is to keep you free of the misconception that everything you decide to do is just between you and God, OK? We are supposed to help each other stay out of the ditches on either side of the narrow way. As for your pastor, doing that is his sacred duty. Don’t be upset or think him unkind if he does it.

 

[Evania]

Oh, but I am doing unto others as I would have them do unto me. Your pastor will, too. In the vast majority of cases, it is objectively a scandal and a near occasion of sin for two people contemplating marriage to be co-habitating, particularly if they are doing it without a chaperone of any kind. You are not the first to try this strategy. The “experiment” has been conducted many times. The body of results to date should not encourage you to continue. The closer you get to your wedding date, the more difficult your situation is going to become.

I asked you what your case was, why your case is different, and what induced you to get into what is objectively an irregular situation at the very least. Your reaction is defensive. This suggests that you do not have a reason that your case is different. Maybe you do, maybe you don’t. That is not the point. The point is that considering your objective situation, you ought to expect that clarification is needed. People who care about the state of your soul are going to ask. They ought to ask, and you ought to expect to be asked.

By the way, it is not judgmental to admonish someone who is in an objectively sinful situation. I don’t know enough about you to know if you are in such a situation, as exceptional situations do exist, but to admonish the sinner is one of the spiritual works of mercy. Admonishing someone who is unwittingly being careless about avoiding sin is a spiritual work of mercy. Certainly someone who inquires about your situation is not automatically attacking you. You would do well not to take it that way.

The chances are that the priest will inquire about whether you two really need to live together. The chances are that he will highly encourage you to find separate places to live until you do marry. The chances are, however, that he will not try to make this a condition of agreeing to officiate at your wedding. Do not get defensive about this. He is only doing what his position as the pastor of your soul requires that he do. There is a reason that the Church exists, and one is to keep you free of the misconception that everything you decide to do is just between you and God, OK? We are supposed to help each other stay out of the ditches on either side of the narrow way. As for your pastor, doing that is his sacred duty. Don’t be upset or think him unkind if he does it.

 

[EasterJoy]

It depends on what you mean by “helping.” If you were living with your boyfriend, would you think it is a good thing for no one to even ask you what the deal is? Why?

When did it become unmerciful to perform a spiritual work of mercy? Besides, I did not judge what she was doing, but was careful to say that while her objective situation is irregular she might have extenuating circumstances. She has not said, however, why it is OK in her case to give what so far seems to be the public appearance of cohabitating without the benefit of marriage, which would be in itself morally problematic even when there was in fact no sins or impurity actually taking place in private.

Try reading bigger chunks of that epistle you cited:

For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it. For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not kill." Even if you do not commit adultery but kill, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as people who will be judged by the law of freedom. For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:10-13

and, more to the point, the epistle closes with this:

My brothers, if anyone among you should stray from the truth and someone bring him back, he should know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

Her pastor is going to ask her these questions, is he not? Why should she not consider her answers before she goes to meet with him? Or should she just skate in there knowing that he’ll marry her either way and plan to just ignore any suggestion from anyone that she’d do better if she could live apart from her fiancé prior to marriage?

BTW, remember that she wrote, “we have always talked about marriage, as many couples do. Why bother dating if you never plan to marry and have a family?” and then went on to say they live together as brother and sister. Did they start dating after becoming roommates in a larger house? Do they in fact have chaperones, by that reason? Something is being left out, here. I’d suggest it is a “something” she’ll want to include when she mentions her living situation to others, lest she wrongly give scandal.

 

[EasterJoy]

If she has an innocent situation, she ought to get into the habit of describing it that way. For instance, many people in their twenties now rent 4-5 bedroom houses with mixed-gender housemates. Their friends do not assume anyone is necessarily in a sexual relationship, and so it does not give scandal. When two of the housemates become an “item,” that sometimes (but not always) changes. It kind of depends. She ought to realize, however, that she would do well to make the whole situation clear when she describes her living situation, lest she unwittingly give scandal. We do have a responsibility to help others avoid not just the sin of rash judgment but also the error of what they think is finding permission for sin from rashly judging our example. These are real spiritual concerns that someone who knows she is doing nothing wrong may not take into account.

In that case, as an example, you would say not “I live with my boyfriend,” but “my boyfriend is also one of my housemates; there are five of us, so we are well-chaperoned!”

 

[MaryT777]

 

[gardenswithkids]

The original poster doesn’t need to answer Easter Joy’s questions here, but as the op prepares for talking to a priest, it would be helpful for her to prepare a response to these types of questions at least in her mind. Some priests may ask; some may not. Priests who might ask these kind of questions that Easter Joy posed may listen to the reply in order to determine if they will perform the marriage or not. Since the op hopes to get married in the Catholic Church, it may be helpful for the op to learn the kind of questions she may be asked regarding her living arrangements. She may not need to explain it to a priest, but she might.

To the op–I suggest you make an appointment to talk a priest. Some priests would perform a marriage the situation you described, while others may not. You are already aware that your living situation with a man who was baptized Lutheran but who now doesn’t practice his faith might present a challenge towards marriage in the Catholic, so prepare honest responses.