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Luckyclovette
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I am asking you nicely to please stop attacking me.
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Evania
Guest
No one is attacking you Luckyclovette. Not one person. The posters here at CAF are wonderful people. We may not agree with you, but that certainly doesn’t mean that we are attacking you. It just means we hold an opposite opinion.
God Bless!
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Irishmom2
Guest
Not everyone sees it that way. Just stop now, okay? This thread is getting way off track.
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Evania
Guest
I’m sorry, but I am genuinely confused. I haven’t posted anything uncharitable. How about we all stop attacking eachother?
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MaryT777
Guest
It’s amazing me to me we had a Deacon and Priest “weigh in” on this issue with compassion and mercy and other posters have chosen a less charitable road.
Mary.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Let me try this again–I do not mean to attack you. I certainly do not doubt that you are indeed living as brother and sister–why would I doubt that? You have no reason to lie when you are in total anonymity. I should have apologized earlier that you felt upset about what I said, and yet I still feel that I would have done you wrong not to raise these questions at all. (Notice: Questions. Not accusations. Questions.)
I am saying that in spite of your praiseworthy conduct the initial appearance of your situation will reasonably raise certain questions and concerns. Your pastor might foreseeably ask you about that. He might not, but there is that chance. You should be ready to talk about that *with him *openly and without fear. By no means should you have any fear, though! I do not mean to attack you or upset you, and neither will he. Neither do you owe me or anyone else not directly involved in your pastoral care any kind of an explanation. As for your pastor, though, be as honest as if you were talking to your medical physician or a coach or anyone else whose has the office of caring for you, guiding you, and helping you to succeed, OK?
What if someone else asks questions? It is fair to think about. I’d suggest this passage: Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope, but do it with gentleness and reverence, keeping your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who defame your good conduct in Christ may themselves be put to shame. 1 Pet. 3:15-16
Those who ask you about this situation are not necessarily trying to judge you, not any more than someone who asks about a nagging cough you have is accusing you of being a closet smoker. Take the question as a sign of concern, something the person asking after you felt it necessary to ask. Be reassuring in your answer, even if you choose not to disclose any details about yourself, and you will allay those concerns about your welfare more surely than if you tell the person to quit being judgmental. If you put yourself in the position of asking about someone who is showing worrisome health symptoms, I think you’ll see that an answer that*** seems ***defensive only intensifies the concern.
I hope that makes sense, and I do apologize if I upset you in any way.
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bitterhope
Guest
Listen to your priest and the priest and deacon that answered you here. Don’t worry about judgmental people. It’s their problem and not yours. I’ve never heard of a cohabitating couple denied marriage for that reason alone (and honestly I haven’t met any couple actually denied marriage at all but I’m sure it does happen sometimes). In the past three years every couple I have met has lived together and none have been denied marriage. At least in the state I’m in right now, this is the norm.
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Luckyclovette
Guest
I am trying to defend myself. I am feeling attacked and people just kept attacking me more. You cannot argue how someone feels. I apologize for any words that I spoke that hurt anyone. I accept the apologies of those who have given them.
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gardenswithkids
Guest
Thank you for the apology. Some of us might feel “attacked” for ever even posting a reply on this thread.
Perhaps the people who you say “just kept attacking (you) more” felt they were simply defending themselves after you called them “judgmental” and “self-righteous”.
Prayers and best wishes as you plan for your wedding.
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Gia_B
Guest
OP, I cannot help but notice that all of the response that you classify as kind are those that agree with you and all of the responses classified as judgmental are those that disagree with you. Take a step back and calm down a little. Ask yourself if you came here to get advice and weigh each piece with an open mind or if you came here looking for affirmation and were distressed to find that not everyone was going to give it to you. People tend to project a harsher tone onto text that they disagree with which can turn even the most well-intentioned remark into something supposedly vicious. Being loving and being nice are not always the same thing. Marriage requires a good deal of emotional maturity. It is important to be able to listen to what others are really saying and not be so thin-skinned.
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Irishmom2
Guest
Gia, a priest and a deacon are “kind” and agree with her?
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Evania
Guest
Thank you for your apology. It’s water under the bridge. I wish you and your fiancé the happiest of years together. May God bless you both abundantly!
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EasterJoy
Guest
She is chaste and regularly avails herself of the sacraments. If she goes to her pastor and talks about this, he’ll take care of her. Her question is answered.
We can listen to what others are really saying, too, after all. We have said our piece, our transgressions are pardoned, the profit that can be taken from whatever we were offering has been taken. We can move on to the next thing.
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FrDavid96
Guest
The OP made it clear that they are merely living at the same address. They are not co-habitating in the sinful sense.
People jump to conclusions without having all the facts, or even worse after ignoring what facts have been stated.
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12345678
Guest
With all due respect, I think there is some confusion here. No one assumed the OP was sexually active with her fiance (if that is what you meant by jumping to conclusions and ignoring facts that have been stated?). Honestly I was surprised by all this talk of attacks to the OP. Advice, insight, and suggestions were given, based on the situation.
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Xantippe
Guest
Here’s a chunk from the OP:
“so, we have always talked about marriage, as many couples do. Why bother dating if you never plan to marry and have a family? I have been very clear that I am Catholic , I attend mass weekly, I pray daily, and will need to raise my children Catholic and I will need to be married in a Catholic church and I won’t have sex until I am married. I found someone who is OK with all these things. He is NOT Catholic. He doesn’t practice any religion. He was baptized Lutheren.”
I’m struck as much by what isn’t there as by what is there. He’s not Catholic, he doesn’t practice any religion–what does he actually bring to the table aside from being a good sport about premarital sex?
Setting the cohabitation issues aside, is this actually a marriage-worthy relationship? If you weren’t living under the same roof, would you want to get married to him?
I know the OP is going to hate this remark and find it “judgmental,” but I’m not hearing a lot of enthusiasm from her for this relationship.
At least to my ear, it sounds like this couple is sliding into marriage via cohabitation (however chaste) rather than actively and enthusiastically choosing marriage.
That would be my primary concern (which may be totally unfounded).
“so, we have always talked about marriage, as many couples do. Why bother dating if you never plan to marry and have a family? I have been very clear that I am Catholic , I attend mass weekly, I pray daily, and will need to raise my children Catholic and I will need to be married in a Catholic church and I won’t have sex until I am married. I found someone who is OK with all these things. He is NOT Catholic. He doesn’t practice any religion. He was baptized Lutheren.”
I’m struck as much by what isn’t there as by what is there. He’s not Catholic, he doesn’t practice any religion–what does he actually bring to the table aside from being a good sport about premarital sex?
Setting the cohabitation issues aside, is this actually a marriage-worthy relationship? If you weren’t living under the same roof, would you want to get married to him?
I know the OP is going to hate this remark and find it “judgmental,” but I’m not hearing a lot of enthusiasm from her for this relationship.
At least to my ear, it sounds like this couple is sliding into marriage via cohabitation (however chaste) rather than actively and enthusiastically choosing marriage.
That would be my primary concern (which may be totally unfounded).
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bitterhope
Guest
Thing is, she asked a specific question about a specific issue. She wasn’t seeking anyone’s opinion about whether her relationship is deemed worthy of marriage, only asking if a priest would require them to separate before the wedding. She probably doesn’t find it anyone’s business to share details that don’t relate to that question and your concerns about her level of enthusiasm really don’t have anything to do with her question either. Most people are smart enough not to go all out and give personal details to a group of strangers, especially when it has nothing to with the question being asked. It just opens the door wider for them to find more ways to criticize and more things to judge.
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12345678
Guest
Although I understand the point you are trying to make since the OP was sharing that she was afraid that a priest would not marry her in her current situation, in reality the exact question she posed at the end of her post was:
ETA: OP, with regards to your concern… don’t worry about what the priest will say or do. You want to marry in the Catholic Church because you know it is the correct thing to do. In order to do so you have to speak with a priest, so go ahead and talk to the priest. Then take his advice to heart; if he says one of you should move out, then go ahead and do so. Do whatever you have to do to prepare yourselves correctly for marriage, something that will last a lifetime! The priest can help your future husband learn more about what marriage to a Catholic entails. Being OK with Catholicism only takes you part of the way… he will need to know that it will directly affect him in many ways: children being brought up in the faith includes sacraments, Sunday and days of obligation Mass for the Catholic family members even when it interrupts other activities and plans, being open to life (which can be tough to live if you don’t agree with it), etc…
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Rico_S
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Xantippe, I almost always find your posts thoughtful and helpful, but I don’t understand your take here. OP game with a specific concern of the priest not allowing then to get married. I’m not sure why you would expect that she give us a litany of reasons why she wants to get married, or why you would make the (uncharitable assumption) that there are no good reasons b/c she didn’t enthusiastically tell us. Perhpas he is handsome and kind and great with kids and has a generous heart and is financially smart and witty…but that isn’t relevant to her worrying that a priest won’t marry them.
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FrDavid96
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