Priest approves homosexuality

[jmcrae]

So I just have to be careful whom I talk to and be more careful with the clergy, because they aren’t as holy as one would think.

Well, no. They are people just like us. Keep in mind, Blessed Mother Mary is a married lay person.

 

[Exalt]

What is the difference between voluntary sodomy and voluntary child molestation? Other than age, I see none - in both cases, a terrible physical abuse is being inflicted on someone, where that someone is agreeing to be abused - for whatever reason.

What’s the difference between a Catholic voluntarily worshipping God in a Church and a Muslim voluntarily worshipping God in an airplane that he has caused to be crashed into a building?

They’re both just different types of worship!

Claims like yours hardly deserve attention. You’re so plagued by prejudice that you’re blind to the love that some men or some women feel for eachother - that sometimes happens to be expressed physically. I suppose it wouldn’t matter if I introduced you to my two gay female friends who are a better couple than most straight couples I know. It wouldn’t matter how loving or supportive they are. They’re no better than Child molesters, right?

What if I said that all Catholics are no better than terrorists. Both are religious people. Both inflict harm on themselves for believing a bunch of stuff that isn’t true. One person just goes a bit further than others. Just interprets something a bit differently and blows up a building. What if I said there is no difference between your average Catholic in the pew and the average suicide bomber in Israel or Iraq or on 9/11? You’d either be furious or would dismiss me as an ignorant child and give me no mind.

I mean, what’s the real difference between a suicide bomber and you? You both believe in God, right? You both have a radical devotion to your faith. There’s no real difference, really. You both inflict serious harm on yourselves for believing in a God that isn’t real. You’re both addicted to the same “opiate of the masses,” right?

Of course not. But me saying that is no better than you saying that me or my friends are just as bad as child molesters.

The mind-bogglingly offensive and prejudiced statements that come from some of the religious radicals on this forum make me wonder where the common sense is…

(Disclaimer: I have great respect for Catholics and Catholicism, as well as all religions. I just used my example to illustrate a point. Namely, that it’s malicious and prejudiced to equate two things that only share a tiny resemblence to eachother. It’s an unfair, untrue scare tactic.)

And as far as child molestation goes in comparison to adult, consensual homosexual relations in the context of a healthy relationship… That doesn’t even deserve an intelligent response. Obviously the person who can’t see the difference would be too blinded by prejudice to begin to understand anyway. It’s people like you that truly scare me.

 

[jmcrae]

Claims like yours hardly deserve attention. You’re so plagued by prejudice that you’re blind to the love that some men or some women feel for eachother - that sometimes happens to be expressed physically. I suppose it wouldn’t matter if I introduced you to my two gay female friends who are a better couple than most straight couples I know. It wouldn’t matter how loving or supportive they are. They’re no better than Child molesters, right?

I’m sure I could also be introduced to a pair of lovers where one is 35 years of age and the other is 10 years old - madly in love with each other, and taking better care of each other than so many wives and husbands. Would the fact that they’re “making it work” make it right, then?

Again, what real difference is there between two 35 year olds of the same sex, and a 35 year old and a 10 year old, if they are madly in love? Why is one “okay” but the other is "completely evil? "

Both couples, after all, are “madly in love” and therefore excused from all rational and natural laws.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Exault,

What’s the difference between a Catholic voluntarily worshipping God in a Church and a Muslim voluntarily worshipping God in an airplane that he has caused to be crashed into a building?

They’re both just different types of worship!

 

[distracted]

What’s the difference between a Catholic voluntarily worshipping God in a Church and a Muslim voluntarily worshipping God in an airplane that he has caused to be crashed into a building?

They’re both just different types of worship!

Claims like yours hardly deserve attention. You’re so plagued by prejudice that you’re blind to the love that some men or some women feel for eachother - that sometimes happens to be expressed physically. I suppose it wouldn’t matter if I introduced you to my two gay female friends who are a better couple than most straight couples I know. It wouldn’t matter how loving or supportive they are. They’re no better than Child molesters, right?

What if I said that all Catholics are no better than terrorists. Both are religious people. Both inflict harm on themselves for believing a bunch of stuff that isn’t true. One person just goes a bit further than others. Just interprets something a bit differently and blows up a building. What if I said there is no difference between your average Catholic in the pew and the average suicide bomber in Israel or Iraq or on 9/11? You’d either be furious or would dismiss me as an ignorant child and give me no mind.

I mean, what’s the real difference between a suicide bomber and you? You both believe in God, right? You both have a radical devotion to your faith. There’s no real difference, really. You both inflict serious harm on yourselves for believing in a God that isn’t real. You’re both addicted to the same “opiate of the masses,” right?

Of course not. But me saying that is no better than you saying that me or my friends are just as bad as child molesters.

The mind-bogglingly offensive and prejudiced statements that come from some of the religious radicals on this forum make me wonder where the common sense is…

(Disclaimer: I have great respect for Catholics and Catholicism, as well as all religions. I just used my example to illustrate a point. Namely, that it’s malicious and prejudiced to equate two things that only share a tiny resemblence to eachother. It’s an unfair, untrue scare tactic.)

And as far as child molestation goes in comparison to adult, consensual homosexual relations in the context of a healthy relationship… That doesn’t even deserve an intelligent response. Obviously the person who can’t see the difference would be too blinded by prejudice to begin to understand anyway. It’s people like you that truly scare me.

It’s people like you who scare ME. If you can’t see the difference between a Muslim who blows himself and many many others up over “religion” and Catholics who see all human beings as being created in God’s image and their lives as sacred… and would (with rare exceptions) do anything remotely like what those who perpetrated 911 did… you are one delusional (2 put it mildly) person…

 

[distracted]

Exalt;2130597:

Exault,

You don’t see any difference between a peaceable Catholic praying in Church and a radical Mulsim calling on God to bless and act of mass murder. Tell me you jest!

I’m not sure where you are coming from. Catholic teaching does not support practicing homosexual relationships…period

. Any Catholic religious or lay Catholics who say differently are outside Church teaching. It has nothing to do with the how nice or loving the individuals are.

I trust, your disclaimer not-with-standing, that you were angry and trying to be offensive when you said the above. This kind of ‘junk’ talk doesn’t advance the argument and quite frankly marginalizes you. The point of this thread is “Priest approves homosexuality” not child abuse.

I watched the video interview of this Dutch priest. I think he was speaking his views that he hoped the Church would change it’s views someday. He was also pretty clear that his views were not in communion with the Church.

As far as I’m concerned this priest is spreading error and scandle because he is actively and publically supporting positions in direct conflict with Church teaching and should be disciplined accordingy.

Again I don’t know what specific statements your are referring to but when I read the above quote I was gobsmacked. What are you saying here? Are you saying that faithful Catholics that speak out in defense of the faith are radicals or what?
Iowa Mike
Why do you bother trying to understand such childish-sounding stuff? This guy, well… again… why bother?? He or she obviously has some kind of anger problem, to say the least…
Anyway, i was wondering: Could u tell me how to highlight just one section of a Post to comment on? I can’t figure out how 2 do that…
Thanks and God bless…

 

[jmcrae]

Anyway, i was wondering: Could u tell me how to highlight just one section of a Post to comment on? I can’t figure out how 2 do that…
Thanks and God bless…

You write the word “quote” and put square brackets around it, at the start of the section that you want to quote.

Then at the end of the section, you do exactly the same thing, except with a backslash “/” in front of the word “quote.”

Leave off the quotation marks, of course.

 

[Eireann]

There’s nothing wrong with liberal Priests. The problem here is that this was a heterodox Priest.

That depends on how liberal they are, if their liberalism is in conflict with the teaching of the Catholic Church then I reject them, as I reject the teachings of this priest.

 

[jmcrae]

That depends on how liberal they are, if their liberalism is in conflict with the teaching of the Catholic Church then I reject them, as I reject the teachings of this priest.

I think the person simply meant that the Church is not political, and has elements of both liberal politics (respect for human dignity) and conservative politics (people should be law-abiding) but that “liberal” should not be used as a word that means “dissent” as though the authentic teachings of the Church were in some way not liberal (ie: if they were contrary to human dignity).

 

[Eireann]

I think the person simply meant that the Church is not political, and has elements of both liberal politics (respect for human dignity) and conservative politics (people should be law-abiding) but that “liberal” should not be used as a word that means “dissent” as though the authentic teachings of the Church were in some way not liberal (ie: if they were contrary to human dignity).

Well I don’t know if I’ve picked this up wrong, but I’ve had my fill of liberal priests in Ireland and one in particular.

He sounds like a mirror image of the one here that gets up my nose big time, I find him nauseating and was on the verge of walking out of Mass a few years ago, now I avoid him like the plague.

If I’ve taken you up wrong then please accept my apologizes.

 

[jmcrae]

Well I don’t know if I’ve picked this up wrong, but I’ve had my fill of liberal priests in Ireland and one in particular.

“Dissenting.” They are dissenting priests. Not “liberal.” “Liberal” is political - it’s the opposite of “conservative”; the Church is not political - we disagree with political conservatives just as much as we disagree with political liberals.

“Dissenting” means that they are going against the teachings of the Church. One can dissent on either side of the line. Someone who is too conservative can be just as far outside the teachings of the Church as someone who is too liberal.

He sounds like a mirror image of the one here that gets up my nose big time, I find him nauseating and was on the verge of walking out of Mass a few years ago, now I avoid him like the plague.

If I’ve taken you up wrong then please accept my apologizes.

No big deal.

 

[Eireann]

“Dissenting.” They are dissenting priests. Not “liberal.” “Liberal” is political - it’s the opposite of “conservative”; the Church is not political - we disagree with political conservatives just as much as we disagree with political liberals.

“Dissenting” means that they are going against the teachings of the Church. One can dissent on either side of the line. Someone who is too conservative can be just as far outside the teachings of the Church as someone who is too liberal.

No big deal.

Well thanks for the lesson, but I think many of us know when the term liberal is used in religion, what it means, and yes I have no time for dissenting liberals.

Dictionary.com 14. a person of liberal principles or views, esp. in politics or religion.

As you say no big deal, I think we know what we’re trying to say.

 

[Dale_M]

Again, what real difference is there between two 35 year olds of the same sex, and a 35 year old and a 10 year old, if they are madly in love? Why is one “okay” but the other is "completely evil? "

Because a child is incapable of giving consent, which means a sexual relationship is exploitive and abusive. An adult, however, is able to give consent.

 

[Exalt]

It’s people like you who scare ME. If you can’t see the difference between a Muslim who blows himself and many many others up over “religion” and Catholics who see all human beings as being created in God’s image and their lives as sacred… and would (with rare exceptions) do anything remotely like what those who perpetrated 911 did… you are one delusional (2 put it mildly) person…

I trust, your disclaimer not-with-standing, that you were angry and trying to be offensive when you said the above. This kind of ‘junk’ talk doesn’t advance the argument and quite frankly marginalizes you. The point of this thread is “Priest approves homosexuality” not child abuse.

Of *course *I was trying to sound offensive. Making radical claims (such as Catholicism = Terrorism or Pro-Homosexuality = Pro-Child Molestation or any other horrible statement) has no place in a forum. If you read my post in context, you’ll see that’s what I mean.

And of course I can see the difference between a terrorist and a good Catholic. I made the connection to illustrate a point. Namely, it’s a ridiculous comparison.

But, I see my irony was misunderstood…

Again I don’t know what specific statements your are referring to but when I read the above quote I was gobsmacked. What are you saying here? Are you saying that faithful Catholics that speak out in defense of the faith are radicals or what?

Another poster said homosexuality = child molestation. I said that was a ridiculous comparison and a scare tactic. Unforunately, many people just can’t see that. I thought by making another stupid, prejudiced, blind claim (one that I did not believe, but brought up to make a point) that you could identify with, you could perhaps see the ridiculousness and offensive nature of the other statement.

 

[Exalt]

Actually, I’ve been thinking about my comments a little bit. Stooping to the level of someone making terrible claims isn’t really the best choice. It’s not fair to, when someone’s offensive comments make you feel bad, make offensive comments right back. While I was trying to make a point, it didn’t go over well and that’s my fault. I’m sorry, I don’t really mean to make anyone feel bad. Anyway, let the discussion go on without my infantile comments.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Actually, I’ve been thinking about my comments a little bit. Stooping to the level of someone making terrible claims isn’t really the best choice. It’s not fair to, when someone’s offensive comments make you feel bad, make offensive comments right back. While I was trying to make a point, it didn’t go over well and that’s my fault. I’m sorry, I don’t really mean to make anyone feel bad. Anyway, let the discussion go on without my infantile comments.

Well said. Reasoned and vigorous debate is one thing, blathering should be avoided by all of us.

Iowa Mike

 

[jmcrae]

Because a child is incapable of giving consent, which means a sexual relationship is exploitive and abusive. An adult, however, is able to give consent.

If you mean “legally incapable,” that’s right - but that’s just a legal fiction. Real children know their own minds very well. All they lack is experience - and many adults lack experience, too.

Second, I do see the situations as being equal, not just because both situations are equally against nature, but also because not all adults know what is best for them, either - just because someone is over the age of 16 doesn’t mean that they know what they want out of a sexual relationship, or that they can’t be bullied into trying something stupid.

 

[rayne100]

If you don’t believe something…leave. Don’t betray those to whom you have sworn allegiance. That’s treachery, and in a religious context that’s heresy as well. How could that be good for anyone?

The ‘other side’…like NAMBLA?

Sorry, Exalt, some voices don’t deserve to be heard, and some positions simply shouldn’t be treated “respectfully”.

God Bless,
RyanL

Homosexuality and NAMBLA are two seperate issues. Just as many Heterosexuals are pedophiles as homosexual.
Please do not confuse the current topic.

 

[Dale_M]

If you mean “legally incapable,” that’s right - but that’s just a legal fiction. Real children know their own minds very well. All they lack is experience - and many adults lack experience, too. .

Yes, some adults are a danger to themselves, no question about it!

But it is widely recognized that children lack the depth of experience that age brings and also the emotional maturity that age ususally brings. I think it is more than legal fiction to say that children are incapable of giving consent.

Perhaps some adults should still be in the protected class of child. But picking those individuals out from the majority of adults would be hard for the law to do (although I guess there are procedures for the most extreme cases).

But I agree with you that from age 16 - 24 there is still a lot of learning and growing to do, and that persons in this age group are vulnerable to exploitation.

 

[rayne100]

Since the priest in question is already known to diocesan authorities to hold heterodox beliefs, the question is how to respond when he spreads these false beliefs to others.

I would talk to a priest I trusted and ask for advice. Mention the newspaper article and the talk that your friend attended, then tell him your concerns. If the heterodox priest needs to be reined in, ask how you should proceed: who should be contacted, in what way, emphazing what words or actions, etc.

For Clarification- what is Heterodox?