Priest explains why yoga and new age are dangerous

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rosarydevotion
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
simple_soul said:
OuadysServent-

If I may interject. In trying to follow this thread I am not lead to believe that Path_Finder or any one else is promoting to be or being disobedient to the Pope. What I believe is happening is you have different understandings of what the Pope’s leadership is saying. Path_Finder is saying they would rather follow Mother Theresa’s understanding of the Pope’s leadership verses yours. I know I could be wrong but this is what I am getting.

Path_Finder, I apologize if I am wrong.
Click to expand...
Read the Vatican’s official document from the Pope, Catholic bishops, to the world on the church’s stance on eastern meditation and new age (where yoga is mentioned three times).

Find a quote from the Vatican’s official document from the Pope that supports yoga and quote that back to me. You will not find it. The whole document is a warning from the Pope, Catholic Bishops to the world.

It’s about the Pope and Vatican’s official document on this, verses anyone who has opinions of the opposite

The question is: what does the Pope and Vatican say about eastern meditation and new age in this document that mentions yoga. And whether people are obedient to the Church’s official document from the Pope or not

Obedience to the Pope or not
 
OurLadysServant said:
I gave a reference. The Pope’s Letter to the Bishops of the World. And I gave the Vatican website link to that letter. Read it.
Click to expand...
The fact is I already responded to all this long ago, You can see that when I did I either used quotation marks or a different color font so it was clear what was quoted and what I was saying. I also gave the paragraph number and the link so anyone could go exactly to the quote and read it in context.

See post #23 page 2,

#87 page 6,

#103 page 7,

Now , Where exactly do you see, “Christian prayer is not an exercise in self-contemplation, stillness and self-emptying,”?

And where do you see explicit reference to yoga and not just “new age”?
 
Michael_Mayo said:
The fact is I already responded to all this long ago, You can see that when I did I either used quotation marks or a different color font so it was clear what was quoted and what I was saying. I also gave the paragraph number and the link so anyone could go exactly to the quote and read it in context.

See post #23 page 2,

#87 page 6,

#103 page 7,

Now , Where exactly do you see, “Christian prayer is not an exercise in self-contemplation, stillness and self-emptying,”?

And where do you see explicit reference to yoga and not just “new age”?
Click to expand...
You have not quoted to me from The Pope’s document that yoga is ok.

I copied and pasted EXACTLY from the church’s document from the Pope. Stop picking at comments. Quote to me from the Pope’s document where it says yoga is ok, or eastern meditation is ok, or new age is ok?

You will not find it.
Don’t tell me your opinion, quote to me from the Pope’s document to the entire church to prove your point.
 
Read the Vatican’s official document from the Pope, Catholic bishops, to the world on the church’s stance on eastern meditation and new age (where yoga is mentioned three times).

Find a quote from the Vatican’s official document from the Pope that supports yoga and quote that back to me. You will not find it. The whole document is a warning from the Pope, Catholic Bishops to the world.

It’s about the Pope and Vatican’s official document on this, verses anyone who has opinions of the opposite

The question is: what does the Pope and Vatican say about eastern meditation and new age in this document that mentions yoga. And you as people are obedient to the Church’s official document from the Pope or not

Obedience to the Pope or not

I have not quoted the Church’s document from the Pope on the stance of the Vatican on eastern meditation and new age until now.
So no
This has not been dealt with already.

And you have not answered my question:
Find and copy and paste exactly a line from that document that says eastern meditation, yoga, or new age is ok. Stop giving me your opinions and quote the Pope’s official letter on new age and eastern meditation to me to support your view.
 
Prudence is one thing. Paranoia is another.

We go around acting as if the way to Jesus is to be afraid of making one wrong move by praying to God in the wrong way. This is the kind of nonsense Jesus gave His life to put an end to.

It’s like saying: If you are not Catholic, I want to know how you pray exactly, how you sit when you do it, what you say, and what you think about or not, while you are praying – so that I may be sure that nothing crosses my mind in any context like the way it might cross yours. Because you aren’t like me and, well, that’s icky. If any of my thoughts are like your thoughts, God will make me burn in hell forever so I need you to realize that your failure to be enough like me, puts me in jeopardy of following you straight there. :rolleyes:

It sounds like a real problem because if anybody tries to “pray like a Catholic” but is not actually Catholic, they may do something that leads “real” Catholics astray. If they pray “like us” then that means we can no longer do whatever it is they were imitating because we don’t want people to think we only act like Catholics because we are acting like a non-Catholic who was in mortal error by trying to be like us while still failing to actually become one of us. We might not recognize the voice of the Shepherd when all this is going on, and will follow anyone who is sufficiently cunning… :okpeople:

It’s hard to imagine God sitting in a control room somewhere and sees on a monitor that the position I’m sitting in for prayer just happens to have been inspired by a teacher who doesn’t think exactly the same way as me! The gall to think that God will be pleased with such an offering. OH it must get Him furious. I can see why He used to take out entire cities, for the insolence of his creatures that turned themselves into a literally God-awful mess. Who can blame Him or say He’s wrong? :takethat:

MS
 
  1. Some physical exercises automatically produce a feeling of quiet and relaxation, pleasing sensations, perhaps even phenomena of light and of warmth, which resemble spiritual well-being. To take such feelings for the authentic consolations of the Holy Spirit would be a totally erroneous way of conceiving the spiritual life. Giving them a symbolic significance typical of the mystical experience, when the moral condition of the person concerned does not correspond to such an experience, would represent a kind of mental schizophrenia which could also lead to psychic disturbance and, at times, to moral deviations.
That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures.

It should, however, be remembered that habitual union with God, namely that attitude of interior vigilance and appeal to the divine assistance which in the New Testament is called "continuous prayer,"34 is not necessarily interrupted when one devotes oneself also, according to the will of God, to work and to the care of one’s neighbor. “So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God,” the Apostle tells us (1 Cor 10:31). In fact, genuine prayer, as the great spiritual masters teach, stirs up in the person who prays an ardent charity which moves him to collaborate in the mission of the Church and to serve his brothers for the greater glory of God.35

ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfmed.htm

The last time I bought a cup of coffee it warned me that the content was hot.
That did not mean it was banned.
 
Nowhere in that quote does it say ‘hey catholics it’s okay to do yoga.’

I still am awaiting a number of quotes from that document from the Pope and Vatican and Bishops to the world on eastern meditation and new age.

I supplied 3 posts of exact quotes
Michael_Mayo said:
  1. Some physical exercises automatically produce a feeling of quiet and relaxation, pleasing sensations, perhaps even phenomena of light and of warmth, which resemble spiritual well-being. To take such feelings for the authentic consolations of the Holy Spirit would be a totally erroneous way of conceiving the spiritual life. Giving them a symbolic significance typical of the mystical experience, when the moral condition of the person concerned does not correspond to such an experience, would represent a kind of mental schizophrenia which could also lead to psychic disturbance and, at times, to moral deviations.
That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures.

It should, however, be remembered that habitual union with God, namely that attitude of interior vigilance and appeal to the divine assistance which in the New Testament is called "continuous prayer,"34 is not necessarily interrupted when one devotes oneself also, according to the will of God, to work and to the care of one’s neighbor. “So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God,” the Apostle tells us (1 Cor 10:31). In fact, genuine prayer, as the great spiritual masters teach, stirs up in the person who prays an ardent charity which moves him to collaborate in the mission of the Church and to serve his brothers for the greater glory of God.35

ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfmed.htm

The last time I bought a cup of coffee it warned me that the content was hot.
That did not mean it was banned.
Click to expand...
 
To take such feelings for the authentic consolations of the Holy Spirit would be a totally erroneous way of conceiving the spiritual life. Giving them a symbolic significance typical of the mystical experience, when the moral condition of the person concerned does not correspond to such an experience,

would represent a kind of mental schizophrenia
which could also lead to psychic disturbance
and, at times, to moral deviations.
 
That is not where the document of the Pope and bishops to the world from the Vatican mentions yoga or new age to the Catholic Church: these are EXACT quotes from that document:

Some of the traditions which flow into NEW AGE are: ancient Egyptian occult practices, Cabbalism, early Christian gnosticism, Sufism, the lore of the Druids, Celtic Christianity, mediaeval alchemy, Renaissance hermeticism, Zen Buddhism, YOGA and so on

Psychology is used to explain mind expansion as “mystical” experiences. YOGA, zen, transcendental meditation and tantric exercises lead to an experience of self-fulfilment or enlightenment. Peak-experiences (reliving one’s birth, travelling to the gates of death, biofeedback, dance and even drugs – anything which can provoke an altered state of consciousness) are believed to lead to unity and enlightenment. Since there is only one Mind, some people can be channels for higher beings.

Perhaps the clearest example of this, in terms of the relationship between New Age and Christianity, is the total recasting of the life and significance of Jesus Christ. It is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile these two visions.

These spiritual entities are often invoked ‘NON-RELIGIOUSLY’ to help in RELAXATION aimed at better decision-making and control of one’s life and career.

It is clear that, in theory at least, the New Age often recognizes no spiritual authority higher than personal inner experience

This is a fundamental point which pervades ALL New Age thought and practice, and conditions in advance any otherwise positive assessment where we might be in favor of one or another aspect of its spirituality. As Christians, we believe on the CONTRARY that “man is essentially a creature and remains so for all eternity, so that an absorption of the human I in the divine I will NEVER be possible

New Age has a marked preference for Eastern or pre-Christian religions, which are reckoned to be uncontaminated by Judaeo-Christian distorsions. Hence great respect is given to ancient agricultural rites and to fertility cults. “Gaia”, Mother Earth, is offered as an alternative to God the Father, whose image is seen to be linked to a patriarchal conception of male domination of women. There is talk of God, but it is not a personal God; the God of which New Age speaks is neither personal nor transcendent. Nor is it the Creator and sustainer of the universe, but an “impersonal energy” immanent in the world, with which it forms a “cosmic unity”: “All is one”. This unity is monistic, pantheistic or, more precisely, PANAETHEISTIC

An adequate Christian discernment of New Age thought and practice cannot fail to recognize that, like second and third century gnosticism, it represents something of a compendium of positions that the Church has identified as HETERODOX. John Paul II warns with regard to the “return of ancient gnostic ideas under the guise of the so-called New Age: We cannot delude ourselves that this will lead toward a renewal of religion. It is only a new way of practising GNOSTICISM

It would be unwise and UNTRUE to say that everything connected with the New Age movement is good, it is on the whole difficult to reconcile it with Christian doctrine and spirituality.
OurLadysServant said:
Nowhere in that quote does it say ‘hey catholics it’s okay to do yoga.’

I still am awaiting a number of quotes from that document from the Pope and Vatican and Bishops to the world on eastern meditation and new age.

I supplied 3 posts of exact quotes
Click to expand...
 
Cut and pasted from The Pope, Catholic Bishops and Vatican’s letter to the Catholic Church on the Catholic Church’s stance on new age and eastern meditation from the Vatican’s website. That is the source. I gave the website already. The Vatican is not plagiarising the other websites. This is The Pope, Catholic Bishops and Vatican’s letter to the Catholic Church on the Catholic Church’s stance on new age and eastern meditation from the Vatican’s website. No. It is not copied and pasted from another website. It is the Pope’s view.
 
OurLasysServant,

What are “genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions,” that are “suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God.”?

From paragraph 28

That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures.

You are so eager to sweep yoga out the door that you are not reading objectively.

For the 3rd time, where are you quoting, “Christian prayer is not an exercise in self-contemplation, stillness and self-emptying,” from? Please give the specific source and page or paragraph.
 
Okay, apparently this link has some of this information:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html

“Some of the traditions which flow into New Age are: ancient Egyptian occult practices, Cabbalism, early Christian gnosticism, Sufism, the lore of the Druids, Celtic Christianity, mediaeval alchemy, Renaissance hermeticism, Zen Buddhism, Yoga and so on.”

“Yoga, zen, transcendental meditation and tantric exercises lead to an experience of self-fulfilment or enlightenment. Peak-experiences (reliving one’s birth, travelling to the gates of death, biofeedback, dance and even drugs – anything which can provoke an altered state of consciousness) are believed to lead to unity and enlightenment. Since there is only one Mind, some people can be channels for higher beings. Every part of this single universal being has contact with every other part.”

These are the only two places Yoga is mentioned. I’m not sure about cutting and pasting the whole document.
 
Your quote mentions ‘some’ eastern meditation practices ‘may’ help someone find God, but that is not where the document of the Pope and bishops to the world from the Vatican mentions yoga or new age to the Catholic Church: these are EXACT quotes from that document about New Age and Yoga: yoga is mentioned twice below; and the techniques of yoga are also mentioned: not in a positive light. You are taking that ‘some’ eastern meditation means yoga, read below about the actual quotes of yoga. This is where yoga is mentioned:

Some of the traditions which flow into ‘’‘NEW AGE’’’ are: ancient Egyptian ‘’‘OCCULT’’’ practices, Cabbalism, early Christian gnosticism, Sufism, the lore of the Druids, Celtic Christianity, mediaeval alchemy, Renaissance hermeticism, Zen Buddhism, ‘’’ YOGA ‘’’’ and so on

Psychology is used to explain mind expansion as “mystical” experiences. ‘’‘YOGA’’’, zen, transcendental meditation and tantric exercises lead to an experience of self-fulfilment or enlightenment. Peak-experiences (reliving one’s birth, travelling to the gates of death, biofeedback, dance and even drugs – anything which can provoke an altered state of consciousness) are believed to lead to unity and enlightenment. Since there is only one Mind, some people can be channels for higher beings.

These ‘’‘SPIRITUAL ENTITIES’’’ are often invoked ‘’‘NON-RELIGIOUSLY’’’ to help in ‘’‘RELAXATION’’’ aimed at better decision-making and control of one’s life and career.

It would be UNWISE and UNTRUE to say that everything connected with the New Age movement is good, it is on the whole difficult to reconcile it with Christian doctrine and spirituality.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
OurLasysServant,

What are “genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions,” that are “suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God.”?

From paragraph 28

That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures.

You are so eager to sweep yoga out the door that you are not reading objectively.

For the 3rd time, where are you quoting, “Christian prayer is not an exercise in self-contemplation, stillness and self-emptying,” from? Please give the specific source and page or paragraph.
Click to expand...
I seem to see the excerpt in this document:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html

“All meditation techniques need to be purged of presumption and pretentiousness. Christian prayer is not an exercise in self-contemplation, stillness and self-emptying, but a dialogue of love, one which “implies an attitude of conversion, a flight from ‘self’ to the ‘You’ of God”.(61) It leads to an increasingly complete surrender to God’s will, whereby we are invited to a deep, genuine solidarity with our brothers and sisters.(62)”

Before section 3.5.
 
OurLadysServant said:
So you are ignoring the Pope’s own document on Eastern Meditation and New Age,
The saints are bound in obedience to the Pope, our Head of the Church, and are you going to disobey the Pope, Christ’s Vicar on earth, descended in succession from St Peter himself?
Mother Therese is not infallible. She was obedient to the church, if she read that document she would be obedient to the church. She challenged that priest on teaching yoga to her nuns and he told her it was a spiritual discipline. He did not tell her what the Vatican has in that document about yoga. He might never have known. Saints have made mistakes throughout history and were made saints. No saint is infallible.

There are people in the church who are supporting gay marriages, divorce marriages, women priests, -that are not excommunicated though it clearly goes against catholic teaching. Just because it’s not openly condemned doesn’t mean it’s right.

I will obey the Roman Cathiolic Church under the authority of the Pope (our Vicar of Christ).
St Faustina was told by Jesus, not to obey an apparition but rather obey her superior’s commands no matter what she felt.
The Pope is our superior, Head of the Church. Catholics are bound to obey our head of the Church over any priest or saint.
The saints and priests are called to be obedient to the Pope.

Any Catholics reading this know obedience to the Pope is part of the Roman Catholic Faith.
A catholic in disobedience to the Pope is not a catholic.
Click to expand...
Father Amorth whom you have quoted does not believe Russia has been consecrated.

spiritdaily.net/amorthfatima.htm

Also, I’m not sure if your interpretation of the documentation is correct.
 
Yes my friend you found the Vatican’s document to the entire church on new age and eastern meditation and found the two quotes on yoga.
Notice yoga is under the category new age. And notice in the category of new age is occult and calling spirits, and Transcedental meditation which is an out of body experience occult experience. All the paths that invoke spirits.
Where does it say below, ‘Hey guys it’s ok to do yoga and all this other new age stuff mentioned such as the Egyptian occult practices and the Transcedental out of body experiencing meditation, let’s go call some spirits!’

And yoga under new age category. Here is the exact quotes from the Pope on new age

Some of the traditions which flow into ‘’‘NEW AGE’’’ are: ancient Egyptian ‘’‘OCCULT’’’ practices, Cabbalism, early Christian gnosticism, Sufism, the lore of the Druids, Celtic Christianity, mediaeval alchemy, Renaissance hermeticism, Zen Buddhism, ‘’’ YOGA ‘’’’ and so on

Psychology is used to explain mind expansion as “mystical” experiences. ‘’‘YOGA’’’, zen, transcendental meditation and tantric exercises lead to an experience of self-fulfilment or enlightenment. Peak-experiences (reliving one’s birth, travelling to the gates of death, biofeedback, dance and even drugs – anything which can provoke an altered state of consciousness) are believed to lead to unity and enlightenment. Since there is only one Mind, some people can be channels for higher beings.

These ‘’‘SPIRITUAL ENTITIES’’’ are often invoked ‘’‘NON-RELIGIOUSLY’’’ to help in ‘’‘RELAXATION’’’ aimed at better decision-making and control of one’s life and career.

It would be UNWISE and UNTRUE to say that everything connected with the New Age movement is good, it is on the whole difficult to reconcile it with Christian doctrine and spirituality.
Path_Finder said:
Okay, apparently this link has some of this information:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html

“Some of the traditions which flow into New Age are: ancient Egyptian occult practices, Cabbalism, early Christian gnosticism, Sufism, the lore of the Druids, Celtic Christianity, mediaeval alchemy, Renaissance hermeticism, Zen Buddhism, Yoga and so on.”

“Yoga, zen, transcendental meditation and tantric exercises lead to an experience of self-fulfilment or enlightenment. Peak-experiences (reliving one’s birth, travelling to the gates of death, biofeedback, dance and even drugs – anything which can provoke an altered state of consciousness) are believed to lead to unity and enlightenment. Since there is only one Mind, some people can be channels for higher beings. Every part of this single universal being has contact with every other part.”

These are the only two places Yoga is mentioned. I’m not sure about cutting and pasting the whole document.
Click to expand...
 
Gaia surely is a brand of Yoga mats that are out there.

yogadirect.co.uk/Deluxe-Gaia-Closed-Cell-Yoga-Mat_p_42.html

Excerpts:
ecological (earth-Gaia is our mother; each of us is a neurone of earth’s central nervous system);
Click to expand...
The clearest articulation of the concept of holism is in the “Gaia” hypothesis.(101)
Click to expand...
Planetary Consciousness: this world-view developed in the 1980s to foster loyalty to the community of humanity rather than to nations, tribes or other established social groups. It can be seen as the heir to movements in the early 20th century that promoted a world government. The consciousness of the unity of humanity sits well with the Gaia hypothesis.
Click to expand...
Among other references. I have never heard “Gaia” used in a yoga class, on TV or in real life but it is that one brand of Yoga products.

It does look like Gaia is used by New Agers along with Yoga.
 
I’m not talking about the Head Exorcist of the Vatican. I’m talking about the Pope’s message to the Roman Catholic Church and catholic bishops on Eastern Meditation, and new age.

Your question is:
Am I obedient to the Head of the Church.
All saints and clergy and laypeople are bound in obedience to the Pope as Head of the Church
A catholic unobedient to the Pope is not a catholic.
.
Path_Finder said:
Father Amorth whom you have quoted does not believe Russia has been consecrated.

spiritdaily.net/amorthfatima.htm

Also, I’m not sure if your interpretation of the documentation is correct.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you for saving me the time of finding the quote Michael Mayo was looking for.
Here it is below.
Catholic meditation is not about self emptying but a dialogue with God

QUOTE=Path_Finder;12494549]I seem to see the excerpt in this document:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html

“All meditation techniques need to be purged of presumption and pretentiousness. Christian prayer is not an exercise in self-contemplation, stillness and self-emptying, but a dialogue of love, one which “implies an attitude of conversion, a flight from ‘self’ to the ‘You’ of God”.(61) It leads to an increasingly complete surrender to God’s will, whereby we are invited to a deep, genuine solidarity with our brothers and sisters.(62)”

Before section 3.5.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top