Priest explains why yoga and new age are dangerous

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Michael_Mayo said:
I haven’t been here in a couple of days but because of your comment I want to my profile page and there is an avatar of our little dog. Funny it is not on my posts.
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Maybe it takes a while to update. Not sure.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
The “I AM” of yoga is not so much impersonal as it is universal. We all and everything is “I Am” in most yoga philosophy. But there are many schools of yoga philosophy. One that I think is compatible with Christianity is called Vishishtadvaita or qualified nondualism. That yoga is not as monistic as Advaita or strict non-dualism. In Vishishtadvaita all the plurality we see is just as real as the unity it shares. So the “I AM” of that yoga is the “I AM” of who I am in God which is ultimately mystery. My individuality and need for God is just as real as the “ut unum sint” Jesus spoke of in the Gospel of John 17:21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us,.

Praise be to God Most High!:crossrc:
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Yes this is essentially where we arrive at with Yoga, and Christianity, the ‘I am’, if we say God is Being, and Existence it’s self, God is ‘I am’, Jesus is ‘I am’.

Following this logic I can say that whether or not the I am is personal or impersonal, from my Christian understanding it is

…the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger.

…the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life.

…the gate; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

…the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for His sheep.

…the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies.

…the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.

…I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.

and apart from this we can do nothing, and If you remain/abide in the I am, we bare much fruit.

So for me the ‘Yogi’ or anyone essentially, Muslim, or other, who abides in this Presence, the I am is moving towards God. It’s simple, but wouldn’t it/shouldn’t it be simple? To approach God.

Now I’m not saying that Jesus Christ Passion was not needed, I just think that in some sense this was an ‘eternal’ ‘universal’ event made visible, in time to all humanity, to see the mystery of Life appear, and Jesus Christ did what we in a sense must all do, but he did it for us, so we can do it, we know it can be done. Or something like that. I’m sure Paul talks along these veins at some point.

But in Him we move and have our Being, and to abide in him is to abide in that immediate Presence that surrounds us now, that is His Presence, in this ‘non-place’, if we look, there is nothing lacking, and only Peace prevails.

My understanding of Revelation, is that this Presence that we usually ignore (some people will actually ask you, what is it you are talking about, even though it is an immediate experience, because we have been ignoring it, never bringing our attention to it) eventually becomes more and more apparent to us, the more we abide in it. It is being revealed to us, it’s all ready there, but now it is being revealed to us, because we have turned or face towards His face, we are repenting. Total revelation, is when only this remains, that you have become One with Christ, just as Jesus Christ prayed to Our Father that it be so, that we become One with Him.

Anyways, that’s my two cents. Again could be wildly off Theologically, but it’s how I see things, and perhaps it’s a little more Orthodox in the deification aspect of things.

Also, when it is said that the real Presence is in the Eucharist. I’m just wondering, how could His Presence, be more there, than it is here now?

Many thanks

Mark
 
Hi Mark,
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           Thanks for sharing, I agree with most of what you posted.
Also, when it is said that the real Presence is in the Eucharist. I’m just wondering, how could His Presence, be more there, than it is here now?
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In the Eucharist, we have the physical presence of the body and blood of Jesus Christ which is united to the Holy Spirit dwelling within us.

So, it is the complete union we of Jesus, body and spirit.

It time as we advance in prayer through God’s grace, its the spiritual marriage, or union with Christ and the closest we can come to Him in this life.

Jim
 
Sephero said:
Now I’m not saying that Jesus Christ Passion was not needed, I just think that in some sense this was an ‘eternal’ ‘universal’ event made visible, in time to all humanity, to see the mystery of Life appear, and Jesus Christ did what we in a sense must all do, but he did it for us, so we can do it, we know it can be done. Or something like that. I’m sure Paul talks along these veins at some point.
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There we get into redemption theory. I tend toward the “moral example” rather than the “penal substitution” but certainly not enough to argue either way. If he can somehow take my bad karma retrospectively, I welcome it. But he also said, “Take up your cross and follow me”.
Sephero said:
Also, when it is said that the real Presence is in the Eucharist. I’m just wondering, how could His Presence, be more there, than it is here now?
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I think because the sign is so powerful that it attracts us and we respond. Like how some places on earth seem closer to heaven. We somehow just feel closer to God, in a church, on a mountain, by the sea, where the distance between heaven and earth becomes thin, or I should say, easier for us to experience. Sometimes we can be at Eucharist and be as unconscious of His presence as a non believer. So faith is an important part of the experience. The more we believe the stronger the presence we feel. I think the same goes for religious ritual. When we slow down and concentrate on what we are doing we become more present. And isn’t that the real problem all along. As you say, God is present to us all the time and every where. It is we who are not present to God because of our distracted minds and then we are also not even present to ourselves or those with us or the reality of the present moment. Instead we are present to the past through memory or the nonexistent future through planning or worry.

So our teaching on “real presence” is like “HEY FOCUS! He is present. He is here NOW.”
 
I agree Michael about what you say about being Present.

I’ve thought about Jesus Christ death in relation to karma, and I honestly think, if we talk along these lines, he did exactly what you think he did not. He somehow super-soaked all our sin away via his divine act. That while we are alive in this time post-revelation timespan, we are still feeling the affects of our karma, but if we turn to Jesus Christ, we go to Heaven after this life. But this is a totally non-Catholic teaching, but if the Indian system is correct on some points, I would see that Christ uniqueness is that he can, and does take away all our karma/Sin, we don’t need to ‘save ourselves’, or ‘liberate’ our selves, this is all ready done. It might explain why there is still so much Evil in the world, even after the Resurrection, as each act has to outplay its destiny and be swallowed up. However those who come to Christ, are swallowed up in this life, though some of their destiny in this life may involve certain tragedy’s which might explain the ‘why do bad things happen to good people’ problem.

Totally divergent thinking on the topic of Redemption, but worth a look a feel.
 
Papa Francesco says on this subject…

“The Spirit makes us free and docile not yoga or zen courses”

“Pope Francis concluded his homily by stressing that only the Holy Spirit can teach us how to love and free us from our hardened hearts.”

“You can follow a thousand catechism courses, a thousand spirituality courses, a thousand yoga or zen courses and all these things. But none of this will be able to give you the freedom as a child (of God).

Only the Holy Spirit can prompt your heart to say ‘Father.’ Only the Holy Spirit is capable of banishing, of breaking that hardness of heart and making it … soft?

No, I don’t like that word, … ‘docile’. Docile towards the Lord. Docile when it comes to the freedom to love.”

news.va/en/news/pope-francis-only-the-holy-spirit-opens-our-hearts
 
LoveMercyGrace

The site you linked clipped what the Pope actually said;
“You can follow thousands of catechism courses, thousands of spirituality courses, thousands of yoga or zen courses and all these things. But none of this will be able to give you the freedom as a child (of God). Only the Holy Spirit can prompt your heart to say ‘Father.’ Only the Holy Spirit is capable of banishing, of breaking that hardness of heart and making it … soft? No, I don’t like that word, … ‘docile’. Docile towards the Lord. Docile when it comes to the freedom to love.” americamagazine.org/issue/pope-francis-zen-yoga-cant-bring-gods-freedom
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What the Holy Father is saying is that the emphasis should not be on the catechism courses, yoga or Zen, but on God Himself, where the Holy Spirit will give us what we need.

Jim
 
Michael_Mayo said:
There we get into redemption theory. I tend toward the “moral example” rather than the “penal substitution” but certainly not enough to argue either way. If he can somehow take my bad karma retrospectively, I welcome it. But he also said, “Take up your cross and follow me”.
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He literally died for our sin so agreeing more with what Sephero responded with.

(in bold) - yes; “Take up your cross and follow me.”- Him, as opposed to ourselves. Not that His Will is always different to ours, in direction.
I think because the sign is so powerful that it attracts us and we respond. Like how some places on earth seem closer to heaven. We somehow just feel closer to God, in a church, on a mountain, by the sea, where the distance between heaven and earth becomes thin, or I should say, easier for us to experience.
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Agreed. Although in a Church we are closer. These other places are temporal except if we offer them up and then we are inviting our Creator into our experience of that place so each place becomes more personal in a divine way because we have invited the Creator into those moments. All of Creation finds its meaning in Him. Church, however, has the presence of Him in a unique way and of course the Sacraments are the most intimate ‘union’ between He and us, because He is then IN us in the closest way possible on earth.
Sometimes we can be at Eucharist and be as unconscious of His presence as a non believer. So faith is an important part of the experience. The more we believe the stronger the presence we feel. I think the same goes for religious ritual. When we slow down and concentrate on what we are doing we become more present.
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You are saying many things here. First, you say that slowing down allows our awareness of Him to increase because we are also more aware of ourselves when we do. I agree with this to some extent. Your words pretty much speak of contemplation. This is good advise to those who seek a spiritual life. And you say “faith” is an important part of the experience. It is everything, IMO - whether blind faith or knowing. The only bit I would contest is this and only because I think this sentence is incomplete: “The* more we believe the stronger presence we feel*.” Yes and no - if we believe, then it will be because of “faith”, of grace, and so if we believe then the faith of our belief can bring about “feeling His presence”; but, “feelings” are not everything. People can go to Mass and not feel anything and yet receive grace or go to Mass feeling awful and disbelieving and yet “feel” the full effects of grace from the Sacrament afterwards. It is not mind-over-matter in the way some other religions believe faith to work because these other religions put emphasis on physical ability to attain grace from our Creator, whereas, I would understand the truth to be that we just have to participate, and On Sundays, this would be by turning up to Mass!. It is ultimately up to our Creator how much grace we receive and how much we “feel” His presence.
And isn’t that the real problem all along. As you say, God is present to us all the time and every where. It is we who are not present to God because of our distracted minds and then we are also not even present to ourselves or those with us or the reality of the present moment.
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Distraction is a daily problem but we are always present before our Creator. As you said. If we were only present to Him when we are not distracted then we’d never be in His company. He is always with us and when baptised He is in us in a whole way, throughout everything. I think you are right when talking about distractions too, in a more major sense. And what you say about the present moment is true. We can be very forgetful each day anew and yet how long is a moment - a second, a millisecond, a milli-millisecond, or five minutes, or an hour, a day? This moment is continuous and is eternal which is why remaining in Him is to live all the time, in joy, pain, happiness, suffering, periods of lucidity or throughout haziness and distraction. We have to carry the cross of who we are and our lives in all its bitter glory from beginning to end. We can often fall short of living in remembrance and gratitude. The moment: He IS! Amen!
Instead we are present to the past through memory or the nonexistent future through planning or worry.
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So our teaching on “real presence” is like “HEY FOCUS! He is present. He is here NOW.”
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The moment, this “NOW”, is eternal. We just have to be who He gives us the opportunity to be, in Him, and who we can truly be is who we truly are, and this growth of realisation comes by HIS grace, within Creation. We just have to say "yes"to Him (and “no” to the devil - which the Creator also gives us the grace to do).
 
JimR-OCDS said:
LoveMercyGrace

The site you linked clipped what the Pope actually said;

What the Holy Father is saying is that the emphasis should not be on the catechism courses, yoga or Zen, but on God Himself, where the Holy Spirit will give us what we need.

Jim
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Exactly, the freedom of love comes with putting aside the the practical tasks of remembering theory (catechism) and exercise classes with all their philosophies (Yoga and Zen) and instead living in and with the Spirit of Holiness - the Holy Spirit - and with He in us; meaning that the Holy Spirit cannot be boxed into theory classes or Yoga and Zen systems because He is free like a Dove, and so it is, that He frees us - no boxes!
 
friardchips said:
Exactly, the freedom of love comes with putting aside the the practical tasks of remembering theory (catechism) and exercise classes with all their philosophies (Yoga and Zen) and instead living in and with the Spirit of Holiness - the Holy Spirit - and with He in us; meaning that the Holy Spirit cannot be boxed into theory classes or Yoga and Zen systems because He is free like a Dove, and so it is, that He frees us - no boxes!
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The Holy Father also says the same about the Catechism in the same light as Yoga and Zen.

Why did you clip that part out ?
 
JimR-OCDS said:
The Holy Father also says the same about the Catechism in the same light as Yoga and Zen.

Why did you clip that part out ?
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I didn’t. The mention of Catechism is included my post along with Yoga and Zen.
 
I was trying meditation for awhile inspired by Jack keroacs book Dharma Bums and it made me psychotic. It’s not for everybody.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
LoveMercyGrace

The site you linked clipped what the Pope actually said;

What the Holy Father is saying is that the emphasis should not be on the catechism courses, yoga or Zen, but on God Himself, where the Holy Spirit will give us what we need.

Jim
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ah! thank you
 
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