Priest In Question Column Answers Question: Should We Be Holding Hands at Mass During the Our Father?

[Rosebud77]

It’s from Pope Benedict XVI’s Encyclical, Spe Salvi. This is just a piece of what he said, but its in the entire document.

Jim

Nothing there that reads as “societal” .Far from it.

when I read your post I had to check your title that you are Catholic … I had a similar discussion once with an E piscopalian minister who seemed to be saying tat we are judged and go to heaven as a parish… Same emphasis as in your post.

This comes u re mass occasionally as other churches have a very social form of worship, As I explained to one poster who found the atmosphere at mass cold, there is mass and there is after mass

Mass in one long and solid PRAYER. Each and God, Which is why so many hate the chattering etc. We enter the church in solemn reverence and that is the Mass then… Each to Jesus,

AFTER is the time, when we are rich in grace and prayer, filled with Jesus, to reach out to those around us,

Salvation IS individual. He knows each of us As individuals,

Sure, after mass shake hands, chat, greet… But Mass is prayer.

 

[drforjc]

Nothing there that reads as “societal” .Far from it.

when I read your post I had to check your title that you are Catholic … I had a similar discussion once with an E piscopalian minister who seemed to be saying tat we are judged and go to heaven as a parish… Same emphasis as in your post.

This comes u re mass occasionally as other churches have a very social form of worship, As I explained to one poster who found the atmosphere at mass cold, there is mass and there is after mass

Mass in one long and solid PRAYER. Each and God, Which is why so many hate the chattering etc. We enter the church in solemn reverence and that is the Mass then… Each to Jesus,

AFTER is the time, when we are rich in grace and prayer, filled with Jesus, to reach out to those around us,

Salvation IS individual. He knows each of us As individuals,

Sure, after mass shake hands, chat, greet… But Mass is prayer.

And in any event, whether salvation is “societal,”, “individual,” or somehow both, it has nothing to do with whether we should be holding hands at the Our Father.

The rubrics do not instruct us to do so. If anyone chooses to do so, it is completely their decision and is not to be imposed on others who do not wish to do so.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Rosebud

Apparently you didn’t read the document.

Nothing there that reads as “societal” .Far from it.

1. Against this, drawing upon the vast range of patristic theology, de Lubac was able to demonstrate that salvation has always been considered a “social” reality.
   Indeed, the Letter to the Hebrews speaks of a “city” (cf. 11:10, 16; 12:22; 13:14) and therefore of communal salvation.

Social, societal, essentially the same thing as does communal salvation.

Salvation was never intended to be individualistic.

when I read your post I had to check your title that you are Catholic … I had a similar discussion once with an E piscopalian minister who seemed to be saying tat we are judged and go to heaven as a parish… Same emphasis as in your post.

So you question my Catholicism.

Christ came to die for many, or as Pope Benedict XVI wrote, for all. He didn’t come to die for me alone, but for all of us.

This comes u re mass occasionally as other churches have a very social form of worship, As I explained to one poster who found the atmosphere at mass cold, there is mass and there is after mass

Mass is a social form of worship, its what Communion, i,e. Holy Communion means.
We come together as a community, to worship God and receive Jesus body and blood in the Eucharist.

Mass in one long and solid PRAYER. Each and God, Which is why so many hate the chattering etc. We enter the church in solemn reverence and that is the Mass then… Each to Jesus,

We should be reverent as a community, this is true. But we are part of that community when we attend Mass together.

Salvation IS individual. He knows each of us As individuals,

OK, so you disagree with Pope Benedict XVI’s Encyclical.

Sure, after mass shake hands, chat, greet… But Mass is prayer.

Mass is praying together within a community, now two ways about.

I strongly advise that you read the Encyclical Spe Salvi.

Jim

 

[pnewton]

Sure, after mass shake hands, chat, greet… But Mass is prayer.

Mass is prayer. Mass is a lot of things. The word itself contains the idea to “send forth”. Mass is a team meeting. Mass is a communal meal. It is an offering to God, and a gathering of community.

 

[newcalling]

My only problem with holding hands during the Our Father is that my cane is usually in one of my hands, and there’s seldom a good place to set it. However, since I’m sitting with the choir, no one ever grabs for my hand; though they did during a friend’s funeral, I was on an end and simply kept my cane in the other hand. I am socially awkward, but I don’t mind holding hands with people in church as an act of communal prayer. I’m just never the one grabbing for anyone’s hand because I don’t presume that anyone would want to hold my hand.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

My little parish church holds 170 people, when full.

In other words the congregation sits relatively close to each other and they have held hands during the Lord’s Prayers since I joined this parish, 31 years ago.

Other parishes, like the one I was in before, is a large cathedral type Church and people do not hold hands there. Same with another parish I often visit in a nearby city.

So, do as the congregation does is my rule, as long as it’s not against Church Rubrics or doctrine.

If I’m at a parish where they hold hands and a person reaches out to take my hand, I will reciprocate.

It’s what’s known as having good manners and being charitable.

Jim

 

[AKDee]

It’s what’s known as having good manners and being charitable.

That was a little passive aggressive. I don’t think anyone here that doesn’t think it’s appropriate to hold hands during the Our Father said they would reject someone or be rude about it. I’ll do it if the person next to me indicates they want to. I just don’t think it’s appropriate because historically the Orans position in Mass has been reserved for priests alone, and there has been no official change to that.

 

[Minion_w_a_drum]

This is the catholic church we are talking about, for crying out loud! We have been born and bred to be distant and cold at church.
In my way of thinking, when the Eucharistic ministers started the practice of washing their hands with hand sanitizer as the Lamb of God is being sung, I took that as a sign that I should not be holding anyone’s hand… Immediately proceeding the Our Father I simply fold my hands in prayer, bow my head and close my eyes. And I don’t budge or flinch for nothing… It is the catholic way.

At least this is what I do…

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I don’t care much what other people do, but I like a fair bit of personal space myself, so I don’t particularly like holding hands during the “Our Father” or any other prayer or proceeding.

It’s a case of live and let live. Those who want to hold hands can do so, and those who don’t shouldn’t have to.

I’m not a “huggy” person either, and again that’s my own personal quirk. I remember a comment by my old Protestant pastor that God has put a sense of personal space around us for a reason, and he gave an example.

A married couple he knew joined one of these “huggy” churches, where everybody is encouraged to hug each other. He didn’t see them for a while and then he bumped into the husband.

He looked very down in the mouth. It seemed the wife had become enamored of another “huggy” male in the church, and the rest as they say was history.

In other words, we need to respect each other’s personal space and stop assuming we’re free to invade it no matter what.

 

[Minion_w_a_drum]

I don’t care much what other people do, but I like a fair bit of personal space myself, so I don’t particularly like holding hands during the “Our Father” or any other prayer or proceeding.

It’s a case of live and let live. Those who want to hold hands can do so, and those who don’t shouldn’t have to.

I’m not a “huggy” person either, and again that’s my own personal quirk. I remember a comment by my old Protestant pastor that God has put a sense of personal space around us for a reason, and he gave an example.

A married couple he knew joined one of these “huggy” churches, where everybody is encouraged to hug each other. He didn’t see them for a while and then he bumped into the husband.

He looked very down in the mouth. It seemed the wife had become enamored of another “huggy” male in the church, and the rest as they say was history.

In other words, we need to respect each other’s personal space and stop assuming we’re free to invade it no matter what.

Very well said. Can I get an AMEN?!?!?! (lol)

 

[LittleFlower378]

Every time I see people holding hands during the Our Father it distracts them which distracts me. The USCCB Bishops should just issue a norm of no hand holding. That is why people are putting their hands in the orans position, to combat holding hands. Atleast that was one Bishops answer to holding hands.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Every time I see people holding hands during the Our Father it distracts them which distracts me. The USCCB Bishops should just issue a norm of no hand holding. That is why people are putting their hands in the orans position, to combat holding hands. Atleast that was one Bishops answer to holding hands.

Well pardon the Bishop’s if they don’t go along with you by issuing this mandate.

Jim