Priest (not ACLU) criticizes nativity scene display

[childofmary1143]

renewamerica.us/columns/abbott/081204

Why am I not surprised? Am I the only one who is scandalized by this Priest?

 

[Dale_M]

The editorial in the first post is based upon this article:
illinoishomepage.net/content/fulltext/?cid=52951

A nativity scene in the Illinois state capitol rotunda is sparking debate over the separation of church and state.

For the first time ever a private group has been granted permission for the display, but some religious leaders feel it crosses the line.

“It could appear to be an endorsement of a particular religion which I think moves closer towards establishment,” said Father Kevin Laughery of Holly Cross Parish.

Laughery thinks all religious symbols should be kept out of public buildings, even if they’re paid for using private funds like the nativity scene. But Zanoza says this all is about freedom of speech. The A.C.L.U. agrees saying the capitol is a public forum for anyone to express any message.

If the state of Illinois is opening its rotunda to all religions, including atheism, I don’t see what the problem is. Just don’t complain when the Freedom From Religion Foundation shows up to place an anti-religious display next to that nativity scene.
seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008456344_webatheist01.html

 

[Lee_M]

I don’t see that he did anything wrong on this. I guarantee you if some display was up for a Muslim holiday, there would be an outrage. We need to keep religious holiday displays out of government buildings.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

After reading the article linked at the bottom of the referenced article I’m not surprised by Fr. Laughery’s actions.

During the first three weeks of January, members of Roman Catholic Faithful, Inc. (a group based in Petersburg) confronted Fr. Laughery regarding his removal of the Communion rail and his providing a “glowing reference” for a priest pedophile from the diocese.

His response to this was to accuse the groups and his apparent parting shot was this:

“When the Bishop sent me to Sacred Heart, you got the best.”

If in fact symbols of any and all religions are allowed here then Fr. L’s reaction speaks volumes that are confirmed by the linked article.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Do some people become priests just to destroy the Church from within by their scandals? It’s hard to comprehend what this man does any other way.

• throwing Holy Chrism in the garbage
• recommending a convicted sex offender for a job as a teacher
• promoting gay pride events at the Newman center on campus

??? Where do these priests come from? Who are they?

 

[Turtleforce]

I pray for This preist in that hopefully he sets an example of Jesus christ from his postion of leadership

 

[meerkat]

Do some people become priests just to destroy the Church from within by their scandals? It’s hard to comprehend what this man does any other way.

• throwing Holy Chrism in the garbage
• recommending a convicted sex offender for a job as a teacher
• promoting gay pride events at the Newman center on campus

??? Where do these priests come from? Who are they?

1. These priests come from God
2. They are sinners, like all of us

Sorry, I’m trying to be smart today

 

[George_C]

Historically speaking, the whole Nativity story is a mix of a little fact and a lot of conjecture. But I deal with it because it, like Frosty the Snowman, whom I am ninety-nine-point-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine percent certain was not a historical personage, has become Christmas tradition.

This priest should just leave it alone.

 

[Soutane]

Historically speaking, the whole Nativity story is a mix of a little fact and a lot of conjecture. But I deal with it because it, like Frosty the Snowman, whom I am ninety-nine-point-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine percent certain was not a historical personage, has become Christmas tradition.

This priest should just leave it alone.

That is ONE incredible assertion.What on earth do you mean by it?

 

[CapIV]

ughh

 

[childofmary1143]

Historically speaking, the whole Nativity story is a mix of a little fact and a lot of conjecture. But I deal with it because it, like Frosty the Snowman, whom I am ninety-nine-point-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine percent certain was not a historical personage, has become Christmas tradition.

This priest should just leave it alone.

The Nativity story is total fact. Jesus was in fact born. To compare it with Frosty the Snowman makes me wonder your RCIA instructions as it says on your profile page that you are a “Roman Catholic in waiting”.

 

[Tsuwano]

I’m not convinced that this particular priest’s concerns are misplaced at all. I think all Christians should be concerned when religious symbols are taken over by the State and used in such a way that their power and meaning are undermined. I’m not saying that this is the case in Illinois, but it was the case several years ago when the government decided to name a nuclear submarine the Corpus Christie. Christian groups, led by the Catholic Church, I believe, pursuaded the Government to clarify itself by naming the submarine The City of Corpus Christie. My point is that the Church should be jealous of its symbolic heritage and insure that those symbols serve the cause of Christ. It is wise to be suspicious of Government use of those beloved symbols, even when there is no malice or intention to misuse those symbols on the part of the Government.

 

[NReily]

Probably the third frustrating story to come out of Illinois this year. (or 4th if you count Fr. Greeley and some of his rants)

1. Cardinal George
2. Fr. Pfleger
3. Fr. Greeley

what’s next…?

 

[George_C]

The Nativity story is total fact.

Enhance your calm, friend. All I’m saying it that the biblical accounts in Matthew and Luke are just lacking in details.

The “no room at the inn” part does not mean that Joseph and a very pregnant Mary were turned away from tavern after tavern or hotel after hotel on December 24, 1 AD. That’s pure invention.

“No room at the inn” actually means that there was no room in the upper floor of the home of the people Joseph and Mary were staying with. We have archaeological evidence that shows that some homes in the area in which Jesus was born and lived had an upper floor for people, while the ground floor was reserved for animals. It provided security and warmth for the people in the cold months. The original Greek word for inn is “kataluma,” which simply means personal space. It’s kind of a catch-all phrase, like a lot of midwesterners calling any type of carbonated beverage “pop.” And keep in mind that the New Testament was originally written in Koine Greek. The Gospels are, in fact, saying that there was no room for the newborn Jesus on the upper floor and the warmest place in the house would be among the animals. So, the baby Jesus was laid in the most convenient place among them resembling a bed, which was a feeding trough or manger.

Jesus was in fact born.

Of course! I am not disputing that. I just believe the December 25, 1 AD date is incorrect.

To compare it with Frosty the Snowman makes me wonder your RCIA instructions as it says on your profile page that you are a “Roman Catholic in waiting”.

I don’t think you quite understand what I was getting at.

 

[patg]

The Nativity story is total fact. Jesus was in fact born. To compare it with Frosty the Snowman makes me wonder your RCIA instructions as it says on your profile page that you are a “Roman Catholic in waiting”.

The birth stories are a blend of Jewish midrash and the ancient literary form commonly known as an “Infancy Narrative”, both of which are mostly fiction. There is no reason to take hardly any of it as literal history and the church does not require any belief in the literal-ness of the stories. Numerous scripture scholars have written about and taught about this under the imprimatur and nihil obstat. Oh, and the stories all teach the truth.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Oh no, another “Christmas is a myth” thread just in time for Christmas

 

[Neil_Anthony]

The birth stories are a blend of Jewish midrash and the ancient literary form commonly known as an “Infancy Narrative”, both of which are mostly fiction. There is no reason to take hardly any of it as literal history and the church does not require any belief in the literal-ness of the stories. Numerous scripture scholars have written about and taught about this under the imprimatur and nihil obstat. Oh, and the stories all teach the truth.

From the Pontificial Biblical Commission’s “Historicity of the Gospels”

Erroneous Premises

Some proponents of this method, motivated by rationalistic prejudices, refuse to recognize the existence of a supernatural order. They deny the intervention of a personal God in the world by means of Revelation in the strict sense, and reject the possibility or actual occurrence of miracles and prophecies. Some start out with an erroneous concept of faith, regarding faith as indifferent to, or even incompatible with, historical truth. Some deny, a priori as it were, the historical nature and historical value of the documents of Revelation. And finally, some minimize the authority of the Apostles as witnesses to Christ. Belittling their office and their influence in the primitive community, these people exaggerate the creative power of the community itself.

 

[patg]

From the Pontificial Biblical Commission’s “Historicity of the Gospels”

Erroneous Premises

Some proponents of this method, motivated by rationalistic prejudices, refuse to recognize the existence of a supernatural order. They deny the intervention of a personal God in the world by means of Revelation in the strict sense, and reject the possibility or actual occurrence of miracles and prophecies. Some start out with an erroneous concept of faith, regarding faith as indifferent to, or even incompatible with, historical truth. Some deny, a priori as it were, the historical nature and historical value of the documents of Revelation. And finally, some minimize the authority of the Apostles as witnesses to Christ. Belittling their office and their influence in the primitive community, these people exaggerate the creative power of the community itself.

This statement has nothing to do with an author of scripture using fiction to teach truth and does not require anyone to deny that ability. There is no church document which denies that fiction is a valid vehicle for revelation or teaching.

There is a big difference between denying that miracles occur and interpreting a story as fiction used to teach truth. The Catholic authors who say that the birth stories are fiction are not doing so to deny miracles, they are doing so to get at the truth being taught.

 

[JPUSC]

'On Monday, August 23, 1999, several Catholic women from the Springfield, Ill., diocese were forced to dig through a trash dumpster to retrieve five United States Flags, Boy Scout flags, school books, crucifixes, rosaries, bibles, vestments, altar linens and other religious items that had been thrown out by the Sacred Heart pastor, Father Kevin Laughery.

'About the same time Father Laughery removed the Communion rail, he was receiving some recognition from a Florida newspaper. According to the Palm Beach Post newspaper reports from December 24 and 25, 1998, and January 10, 1999, two students from Palm Beach Community College became concerned when they found out that their horticulture teacher, Walter Weerts, at times had a live-in 8-year-old ‘adopted grandchild’ he called ‘Manny,’ and heard that Weerts and the child shared the same bed.

‘An Internet search by the students revealed that Father Weerts was a convicted child molester, a pedophile Catholic priest, from the Springfield, Ill., diocese. In 1986, Weerts was sentenced to six years in an Illinois state prison after pleading guilty to three counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse involving boys between the ages of 12 and 16. Weerts pleaded guilty to sexual abuse, and the victims’ lawsuit, which blamed the diocese for not preventing the abuse, was settled for an undisclosed amount.

Honestly, nothing surprises me anymore.

Just waiting for the day when all these wicked people leave the Church.

 

[patg]

Oh no, another “Christmas is a myth” thread just in time for Christmas

We don’t need another one as there are hunderds of posts in dozens of threads on this topic if anyone is interested (and a myth is a different literary form than an infancy narrative).

I just can’t let unsupportable statements like “The Nativity story is total fact” go without a comment… If one wishes to state (or believe) this as personal opinion, that is fine but it should not be presented as official church teaching.