Priest played a Star of David tambourine while he processed out of the church

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

St.Claire:

Well this church calls it a Charismatic Mass

sjnirvine.org/mass/indexm.html

This could be becuase it is held for a Charismatic prayer community and the choice of songs sung during the Mass may be different. But other than that, the Mass should not be different from any other Mass.

I sent them an email asking them how a Charismatic Mass differs from a Sunday Mass. I will let you know if I get a reply.

 

[Della]

ByzCath:

No, the GIRM does not say that the priest and those in the Entrance procession are to sing, so taking your argument, as it does not say they are to sing, then if they sing they are commiting an abuse. That is taking this argument too far.

To which I agreed, in principle.

As for the other part. I have never seen a Church that has the sacristy in the back of the Church. Every Church I have been in has the sacristy off the Sanctuary and some of these Churches have been very new. Guess I have been lucky.

You’ve been lucky indeed. Every modern church in my area has the sacristy at the back of the church. Why, I couldn’t say when it makes it all the more inconvenient for the priest and necessitates him processing and recessing when it isn’t called for.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Della:

You’ve been lucky indeed. Every modern church in my area has the sacristy at the back of the church. Why, I couldn’t say when it makes it all the more inconvenient for the priest and necessitates him processing and recessing when it isn’t called for.

Not only that, it must be a nightmare for the poor sacristan to prepare for the Mass.

When I was attending a Latin Church on a regualr basis I was the sacristan for one of the Masses. Something that I truely loved to do.

 

[misericordie]

contemplative:

Then David, girt with a linen apron, came dancing before the LORD with abandon, as he and all the Israelites were bringing up the ark of the LORD with shouts of joy and to the sound of the horn. 2Samuel 6:14-15

As David Did MIDI

http://photobucket.com/albums/y188/ginnyroc/th_DavidDance.jpg

Lyrics
When the spirit of the Lord
moves upon my heart
I will dance like David danced
When the spirit of the Lord
moves upon my heart
I will dance like David danced

I will dance, I will dance
I will dance, like David danced
I will dance, I will dance

I will dance, like David danced

To counteract this overused argument: David was not celebrating (offering) Mass. I am anot against the priest dancing the macarena if he wants, and the faithful=just NOT in Mass. They can do it in the lower basement where bingo takes place.

 

[misericordie]

ByzCath:

No, the GIRM does not say that the priest and those in the Entrance procession are to sing, so taking your argument, as it does not say they are to sing, then if they sing they are commiting an abuse. That is taking this argument too far.

As for the other part. I have never seen a Church that has the sacristy in the back of the Church. Every Church I have been in has the sacristy off the Sanctuary and some of these Churches have been very new. Guess I have been lucky.

Yes, and Redemptionis Sacramentum is even more clear. What’s needed is a priest with onions who will lay down the rules in a charitable manner, and if that does not work (he as pastor should write everything down that he tried etc) he is to then get tough and make it known HE is PASTOR. He could get many powerful catholics to fill his church that are orthodox and will like him, that way when liberal bishop comes along, he will know that the powerful othodox will begin a letter writing thing in support of the pastor, and if he is removed, they could STOP giving to the bishop’s yearly appeal as well as the collections.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

misericordie:

To counteract this overused argument: David was not celebrating (offering) Mass. I am anot against the priest dancing the macarena if he wants, and the faithful=just NOT in Mass. They can do it in the lower basement where bingo takes place.

And the priest being discussed here was not dancing either. He was playing a tambourine while he processed out after the end of Mass.

misericordie:

Yes, and Redemptionis Sacramentum is even more clear. What’s needed is a priest with onions who will lay down the rules in a charitable manner, and if that does not work (he as pastor should write everything down that he tried etc) he is to then get tough and make it known HE is PASTOR. He could get many powerful catholics to fill his church that are orthodox and will like him, that way when liberal bishop comes along, he will know that the powerful othodox will begin a letter writing thing in support of the pastor, and if he is removed, they could STOP giving to the bishop’s yearly appeal as well as the collections.

Actually that document says nothing about the Entrance procession or the procession out after the end of the Mass.

So I really do not see what this has to do with the price of tea in China.

And this is a strange turn you are taking. In a recently locked thread you were lamenting a priests who do just what you are calling for here.

 

[Binney]

misericordie:

To counteract this overused argument: David was not celebrating (offering) Mass. I am anot against the priest dancing the macarena if he wants, and the faithful=just NOT in Mass. They can do it in the lower basement where bingo takes place.

You seem like such a bitter person most of the time. I will pray for you.
I pray you soften up and relax just a little bit.

 

[misericordie]

Binney:

You seem like such a bitter person most of the time. I will pray for you.
I pray you soften up and relax just a little bit.

This is another overused comment which comes from those who cannot stand when the TRUTHS of the faith are exposed. I would relax, as long as the teachings of ROME are not brushed aside in favor of feel good liturgies. I wonder if you will say the Pope is bitter as well when he starts correcting the liturgical abuses?

 

[misericordie]

ByzCath:

And the priest being discussed here was not dancing either. He was playing a tambourine while he processed out after the end of Mass.

Actually that document says nothing about the Entrance procession or the procession out after the end of the Mass.

So I really do not see what this has to do with the price of tea in China.

And this is a strange turn you are taking. In a recently locked thread you were lamenting a priests who do just what you are calling for here.

Byz, you still have not demonstated that you are well read in the faith. If priests want to play drums, let them join a band, otherwise THEY COULD START OBEYING THE HOLY SEE.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

misericordie:

Byz, you still have not demonstated that you are well read in the faith. If priests want to play drums, let them join a band, otherwise THEY COULD START OBEYING THE HOLY SEE.

Again with the personal attacks and followed up with opinion spoken as if it is fact.

You continue to demonstart that you are educated beyond your means to truely understand.

I only continue to respond to your nonsense so that others can see that you do not speak for the Church but rather impose your own opinoin over what the Church Teaches.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

misericordie:

If priests want to play drums, let them join a band, otherwise THEY COULD START OBEYING THE HOLY SEE.

So lets try again.

Show where the playing of a tambourine in the procession after the end of Mass by the priest is an abuse.

It is not in the GIRM nor in Redemptionis Sacramentum.

So this priest is not disobeying anyone.

 

[Joe_Monahan]

misericordie:

It seems to be getting worse, sad to say. **This new Pope is going to have to have onions ** to correct all these liturgical abuses. Did the priest dance the hussle as well? Or merengue?

He uses this thinly veiled allusion twice in this thread. Overall, I’m inclined to agree with the prior complaintant.

“miserable” would, frankly, be as good a nick for misericordie - the man is perpetually unhappy and projects his attitude on anyone unlucky enough to get in his way.

Sorry for the editorial comment; he does bring out the best in one

Joe

 

[Brendan]

Della:

The tambourine is an abuse because the GIRM does not dictate that one ought to be played by the priest in the recessional.

Della,

That’s a hard one, becuase technically, the recessional not part of Mass. When the deacon or priest says “Ite, Missa est”, they mean it. Mass is over at that point and the GIRM does refer much to anything after that. The GIRM allows for a recessional, but doesn’t describe what can or cannot be done.

Neither does RS.

I don’t agree with it at all, but I don’t know that it has been condemmed.

 

[HumbleSinner]

Brendan:

Della,

That’s a hard one, becuase technically, the recessional not part of Mass. When the deacon or priest says “Ite, Missa est”, they mean it. Mass is over at that point and the GIRM does refer much to anything after that. The GIRM allows for a recessional, but doesn’t describe what can or cannot be done.

Neither does RS.

I don’t agree with it at all, but I don’t know that it has been condemmed.

Since the GIRM doesn’t mention anything about dancing a jig, riding a skateboard, wearing a Richard Nixon mask, stripping off the alb and wearing swim trunks underneath does this mean the priests can do these things?

 

[MrS]

misericordie:

This is another overused comment which comes from those who cannot stand when the TRUTHS of the faith are exposed. I would relax, as long as the teachings of ROME are not brushed aside in favor of feel good liturgies. I wonder if you will say the Pope is bitter as well when he starts correcting the liturgical abuses?

Hey mis… we know that there will be a lot of disgruntled posters when that happens (not if, but when!). It appears he is setting the Church apart from other religions already. And when the “protestant rubrics” are replaced with the age-old Catholic ones… break out the Gregorian music. :clapping:

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

MrS:

Hey mis… we know that there will be a lot of disgruntled posters when that happens (not if, but when!). It appears he is setting the Church apart from other religions already. And when the “protestant rubrics” are replaced with the age-old Catholic ones… break out the Gregorian music. :clapping:

But following the rubrics as they are now, even if you think they are “protestant” is not an abuse.

mis is calling things abuse that are not abuses.

Seems many out there see abuses every which way they turn and then refuse to believe that they are not abuses even when shown proof.

I don’t think Gregorian chant will be coming back anytime soon, not that I wouldn’t enjoy hearing it once in a while.

 

[Brendan]

HumbleSinner:

Since the GIRM doesn’t mention anything about dancing a jig, riding a skateboard, wearing a Richard Nixon mask, stripping off the alb and wearing swim trunks underneath does this mean the priests can do these things?

After Mass is over, yes he can. And the recessional happens after Mass is over.

The point is, the recesssional happens outside of Mass itself. It is not part of Mass, therefore it is not regulated by the General Instruction of the Roman Missal.

 

[HumbleSinner]

Brendan:

After Mass is over, yes he can. And the recessional happens after Mass is over.

The point is, the recesssional happens outside of Mass itself. It is not part of Mass, therefore it is not regulated by the General Instruction of the Roman Missal.

You mean to say that the celebrant can do anything he chooses outside of the Mass even if he is still in the main body of the church?

 

[Brendan]

HumbleSinner:

You mean to say that the celebrant can do anything he chooses outside of the Mass even if he is still in the main body of the church?

No, there are Canons that define the Sanctity of the Nave.

But the playing of a tambourine is not an action that would violate this Sanctity. The fact is, it is a very Biblical instrument.

Psalms 68:24-25
24 Your procession has come into view, O God,
the procession of my God and King into the sanctuary.

25 In front are the singers, after them the musicians; 
   with them are the maidens playing tambourines

.

 

[Michael_Welter]

HumbleSinner:

You mean to say that the celebrant can do anything he chooses outside of the Mass even if he is still in the main body of the church?

Yes, as long as it is not sinful, or leads others into sin.