Oh, ok, so the Pope and his spokesmen are only stating opinions. I see now, the day the Tiara was discarded was the day we could begin to just let our consciences lead us where they may.
It was a simple question and your reply started the dragging of it off topic. Pure and simple. If it wasn’t your intent fine, but I think you had been a member of the forum long enough to know what would follow you post.At Trent,
As the poster who wrote the first reply to your post, I can say in all honesty, that it is this type of attitude that keeps me away from more “traditional circles”, much to my own dismay.
I want to know how, when I was speaking from my own experience, in my own community, you can blame me for having an over 30 page thread closed?
You asked a question, and asked for comments regarding the answers, which is exactly what I did, ***in light of my own experiences! ***
I have copied my reply in that thread below. Please point out where I introduced division, all I did was call out the “division” I have experienced being a post-VII Catholic from some of my more “traditional” brethren.
***I have a EF Mass available in my diocese every Sunday, in a parish that is about 3 miles from my home. Most of the time it is a “low Mass”, but usually once a month there is a “high Mass”.
I have never been, even though I would like to.,
so I did not vote in your poll, as you do not have an answer that would suit my needs.
What is keeping me from going?
Attitudes of many (NOT ALL!!!) of the “traditional set” in my community.
Every thing from the “OF is an abomination” to “I lack spirituality and am not “Catholic” enough.”
We also have a couple of very traditional OF parishes in my area, where I have been told to “Get out of my pew”, “You don’t belong to this parish, why are you here?” and a few things that I will not comment on.
I am not saying that this happens everywhere or even all the time, but it has made me shy away from more “traditionally minded people”, as I find many of them to be hypocritical and very un-Christian.
The Pope has said, time and time again that the OF is the “norm” and that the EF, can and should be celebrated but not instead of the OF.
Now, all I know is the OF (we both celebrated our 40th this year), and in many cases have been told that “I don’t know what being Catholic is all about”, because of it.
Sorry, with that kind of attitude, I will stay with my OF parish, abuses and all, and hope that my prayerful and respectful presence there can help to be an example to others. ***
I am sad to say, but your comments here are just another example of why I tend to shy away from “traditional-minded” people.It was a simple question and your reply started the dragging of it off topic. Pure and simple. If it wasn’t your intent fine, but I think you had been a member of the forum long enough to know what would follow you post.
Why? Because I did not agree with your POV? You posted in the Liturgy & Sacraments forum, not in the Traditional forum, so I assumed that you were looking for answers from a wider audience. I should have known better, you know what they say about those who “assume”.
If you are sincere, why do you embrace abuses instead of feeding the spiritual need you seem to desire ? There are attitudes in, and self righteous members of, every single parish on the planet, diocesan, sede, SSPX, FSSP, independent. Doesn’t matter. When did I say I "embrace" abuses?I do not embrace any abuse of the Mass! When I see something that I am not sure of, the first thing I do is talk to the priest, ask questions and do my research. If it is indeed an abuse, I try to charitably and with love get the problem corrected. And to lead by example!!
), however, I can not tell you how many times my faith and morality have been called into question, by so-called ‘traditionalists’. It seems to me, that sometimes the people on both ends of the extremes are their own worst enemies!Exactly my concern. Why is it so difficult?If the Moto Propio isn’t taken advantage of then what’s the purpose of it?
Well, I imagine that one form is the ordinary form, and the other is the extraordinary form. Others have written that an EF with 100 worshippers can’t supplant an OF with 400, so there are logistical, resource and language considerations.
I’m not attacking you, but you said you are willing to put up with the abuses.I am sad to say, but your comments here are just another example of why I tend to shy away from “traditional-minded” people.
I am here to learn, and I have learned a great deal.
I have also learned that sometimes, no matter how hard I try, I will always be seen as an enemy of “traditionalism” because I have the audacity to stand up for myself and for what I believe.
I have never told anyone that they were wrong to believe what they believe (so long as it does not go against Church teaching, that is
I tried, At Trent, to send this via PM. I was not able. I do not want to hijack this thread any more than it already has been. If you wish to reply, please do so through the private message feature.
Peace be with you!
But they are part of the Magisterium of the Church.
Would be a reasonable suggestion if the majority of Bishops would listen to the Bishop of Rome.
Yes, and one is at the top
Of course they should. The Pope that called VII stressed the need for learning Latin in his Veterum Sapientia
Well, Communion in the hand is an exception to the rule yet that seems to have become the de facto norm quick enough.
That is still besides the point. Only God speaks the truth all the time and all His words are law. The leadership of the Church may have authority but that doesn’t mean every spoken words of theirs are the truth and law. As human beings they are entitled to their opinion and not everything they say are binding to the Church.
The subscript is mine.
You’re exactly right about that. With the formation of all the synods, it perhaps lessened the needs for the bishops of one country to speak to bishops of other countries. The Vatican II collegiality has had its critics for more than one reason.
