Priest says morally licit to use the Pill to augment couple’s use of NFP

[setter]

I recently had a discussion with a Priest who asserted that it is morally licit to use the Pill to “regulate” irregular menstrual cycle in service of a couple’s efforts to utilize “natural” family planning methods. I contested that suppression of the menstrual cycle does not constitute “regulation” in service of NFP. I also questioned the medical necessity of an irregular menstrual cycle as a medical condition that requires the Pill to treat and how the principle of double effect could apply. He rather skirted the issue that the intent was in service of greater latitude for the marital embrace and limiting unexpected pregnancy and the abortifacient effect of the Pill. I would appreciate any citations to figure out if such counsel is morally licit.

 

[Karin]

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

Lawful Therapeutic Means
15. On the other hand, the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases, even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result there from—provided such impediment is not directly intended for any motive whatsoever. (19)

 

[calchiquita]

billings-centre.ab.ca/general/infertility.html

just fyi

can’t see where pill could be morally licit if it is an abortifacient

 

[1ke]

I recently had a discussion with a Priest who asserted that it is morally licit to use the Pill to “regulate” irregular menstrual cycle in service of a couple’s efforts to utilize “natural” family planning methods. I contested that suppression of the menstrual cycle does not constitute “regulation” in service of NFP. I also questioned the medical necessity of an irregular menstrual cycle as a medical condition that requires the Pill to treat and how the principle of double effect could apply. He rather skirted the issue that the intent was in service of greater latitude for the marital embrace and limiting unexpected pregnancy and the abortifacient effect of the Pill. I would appreciate any citations to figure out if such counsel is morally licit.

This is a very confused priest who neither understand how the Pill works nor the church’s teaching on contraception.

I suggest getting him a lot of materials to read from www.omsoul.com.

 

[Karin]

To use the Pill for Birth Control is against the CHurchs teaching and not allowed…
To use the Pill for a medical condition is allowed by the Church

 

[mikew262]

It’s amazing how some lay folks here think they know Catholic teachings better than ordained priests.

 

[fix]

It’s amazing how some lay folks here think they know Catholic teachings better than ordained priests.

So, we have no obligation before God to discern truth from error? The laity cannot grasp moral reasoning? Are you advocating a type of clericalism?

 

[Karin]

It’s amazing how some lay folks here think they know Catholic teachings better than ordained priests.

what do I know mike?
I just quoted the Popes ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PAUL VI
ON THE REGULATION OF BIRTH
*
*

 

[fix]

I recently had a discussion with a Priest who asserted that it is morally licit to use the Pill to “regulate” irregular menstrual cycle in service of a couple’s efforts to utilize “natural” family planning methods.

I would think attempting to regulate the cycle to correct a type of pathology is licit, but how would it benefit the use of NFP? I am missing the relationship?

 

[Jennifer_J]

It’s amazing how some lay folks here think they know Catholic teachings better than ordained priests.

A priest is not infallible, esp when teaching in opposition to the Bishops and the Pope. A priest is also not a medical expert. The Church teaches that if a medication/therapy is needed to cure/treat a disease then it is acceptable to use, even if the unintended side affect is to render someone infertile. However an irregular menstral cycle is not exactly a medical emergency and something that can be treated with improved nutrition, improved general health and through other therapies (see popepaulvi.com/) in line with the Church’s teachings on fertility and reproduction. The pill serves to mask the normal fertility of a women, it is a hormonally induced infertility and does nothing to cure anything. It is infact, impossible to use NFP on the pill as there are no fertility signs to use.

God bless,
Jennifer

 

[mikew262]

what do I know mike?
I just quoted the Popes ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PAUL VI
ON THE REGULATION OF BIRTH
*
*

My comment was not aimed at you.

 

[mikew262]

So, we have no obligation before God to discern truth from error? The laity cannot grasp moral reasoning? Are you advocating a type of clericalism?

Priests go through years of training on Church doctrine and teachings. Have most of us? Probably not.

No, priests are not infalliable, but who is to say the priest is not being led by the Holy Spirit when he giving his advice? Priests among other things are there to provide spiritual guidance and education on Church matters. Unless a priest has proven himself to be openly heretical against the Church, I tend to beleive what he says. In this case, what this priest said to Setter sounds reasonable, and it’s simply an interpretion problem on what medical necessity is.

 

[fix]

Priests go through years of training on Church doctrine and teachings. Have most of us? Probably not.

Yes, and hopefully it was orthodox training. That does not mean every response from every priest is correct. Is every physician correct in every response he gives?

No, priests are not infalliable, but who is to say the priest is not being led by the Holy Spirit when he giving his advice? Priests among other things are there to provide spiritual guidance and education on Church matters. Unless a priest has proven himself to be openly heretical against the Church, I tend to beleive what he says. In this case, what this priest said to Setter sounds reasonable, and it’s simply an interpretion problem on what medical necessity is.

I am trying to understand what the advice was. I am not certain from what I have read thus far.

 

[1ke]

In this case, what this priest said to Setter sounds reasonable, and it’s simply an interpretion problem on what medical necessity is.

No, Mike, it is not reasonable and it is not an intepretation on what medical necessity is.

The OP said, in reference to the priest’s advice: “it is morally licit to use the Pill to “regulate” irregular menstrual cycle in service of a couple’s efforts to utilize “natural” family planning methods.”

That is an oxymoron.

You cannot use the pill and NFP at the same time. The pill doesn’t “regulate” anything. The priest, who is not a doctor, has no idea what he is talking about.

That is why I recommended the OP get materials on how the pill works and how NFP works and give them to the priest.

The priest is somehow under the idea that you can take the pill to “regulate” the cycle and simultaneously use NFP to achieve or avoid pregnancy-- that is completely untrue.

 

[mikew262]

No, Mike, it is not reasonable and it is not an intepretation on what medical necessity is.

The OP said, in reference to the priest’s advice: “it is morally licit to use the Pill to “regulate” irregular menstrual cycle in service of a couple’s efforts to utilize “natural” family planning methods.”

That is an oxymoron.

You cannot use the pill and NFP at the same time. The pill doesn’t “regulate” anything. The priest, who is not a doctor, has no idea what he is talking about.

That is why I recommended the OP get materials on how the pill works and how NFP works and give them to the priest.

The priest is somehow under the idea that you can take the pill to “regulate” the cycle and simultaneously use NFP to achieve or avoid pregnancy-- that is completely untrue.

Hmm… you might want to do some more research on the “pill” regarding regulating menstrual cycles.

Quote from a BCP website:

What are the benefits of taking BCPs?
Regular cycles
BCPs are great at regulating the menstrual cycle, and this is especially helpful for women with periods that come too often or too infrequently.

Quote from George Washington University medical website:

In addition to prevention of pregnancy, oral contraceptives have several health benefits including regulating menstrual cycles and decreasing the amount and length of menstrual periods.

I can probably come up with more sources, but I think the point has been made.

Perhaps this priest isn’t as misinformed as you think.

 

[IsMiseSteise]

Hmm… you might want to do some more research on the “pill” regarding regulating menstrual cycles.

Quote from a BCP website:

What are the benefits of taking BCPs?
Regular cycles
BCPs are great at regulating the menstrual cycle, and this is especially helpful for women with periods that come too often or too infrequently.

Quote from George Washington University medical website:

In addition to prevention of pregnancy, oral contraceptives have several health benefits including regulating menstrual cycles and decreasing the amount and length of menstrual periods.

I can probably come up with more sources, but I think the point has been made.

Perhaps this priest isn’t as misinformed as you think.

I love that line that it decreases the amount and lenth of menstrual periods. That cracks me up…because IT’S NOT ALWAYS TRUE! Head on over to a support site for PCOS with that line…you’ll have the ladies in stitches!

Doctors like the pill because it makes things nice and neat for the doctors.

The pill will MASK problems that are otherwise correctible. Most menstrual cycle problems are from a hormone imbalance. Balance the hormones and the problem is solved and balancing the hormones isn’t very difficult. Sometimes a little dietary tweaking or the addition of supplements will work. Sometimes, the addition of prometrium (progesterone) will help.

Now, go back and research all the BAD things about the pill…like the risk of stroke and blood clots.

 

[fix]

Hmm… you might want to do some more research on the “pill” regarding regulating menstrual cycles.

Quote from a BCP website:

What are the benefits of taking BCPs?
Regular cycles
BCPs are great at regulating the menstrual cycle, and this is especially helpful for women with periods that come too often or too infrequently.

Quote from George Washington University medical website:

In addition to prevention of pregnancy, oral contraceptives have several health benefits including regulating menstrual cycles and decreasing the amount and length of menstrual periods.

I can probably come up with more sources, but I think the point has been made.

Perhaps this priest isn’t as misinformed as you think.

What is the realtionship between “regulating” menses by ingesting female hormone compounds and practicing NFP? How can they benefit each other? This is not a moral question I am asking. It is a question of biology?

 

[mikew262]

I love that line that it decreases the amount and lenth of menstrual periods. That cracks me up…because IT’S NOT ALWAYS TRUE! Head on over to a support site for PCOS with that line…you’ll have the ladies in stitches!

Doctors like the pill because it makes things nice and neat for the doctors.

The pill will MASK problems that are otherwise correctible. Most menstrual cycle problems are from a hormone imbalance. Balance the hormones and the problem is solved and balancing the hormones isn’t very difficult. Sometimes a little dietary tweaking or the addition of supplements will work. Sometimes, the addition of prometrium (progesterone) will help.

Now, go back and research all the BAD things about the pill…like the risk of stroke and blood clots.

Sure there are potential side effects, no argument. I’m addressing the specific menstual cycle regulation issue that Ike brought up.

 

[mikew262]

What is the realtionship between “regulating” menses by ingesting female hormone compounds and practicing NFP? How can they benefit each other? This is not a moral question I am asking. It is a question of biology?

The answer looks rather obvious to me, however I’ll elaborate. NFP, among other things is based on knowing when you ovulate, so you can avoid that “fertile” time. If the menstrual cycle is regulated, then you have a much better idea when ovulation occurs.

 

[fix]

The answer looks rather obvious to me, however I’ll elaborate. NFP, among other things is based on knowing when you ovulate, so you can avoid that “fertile” time. If the menstrual cycle is regulated, then you have a much better idea when ovulation occurs.

The entire point of NFP is to be aware of the physical changes that happen as the cycle plays itself out. Taking hormones masks those signs. Where is the help?