Priest says there's no Santa during Epiphany Mass!

[basilisk]

I’m sorry, I know I’m going to get flamed for this, but I don’t think a priest should be obligated to perpetuate untruths. I don’t lie to children, I speak to them gently and kindly, but, if a child asks me, I don’t feel obligated to tell them something is true when I know it isn’t.

One can choose to say nothing out of respect for parental prerogative. One can condemn the superficiality and commercialization of Christmas without destroying the harmless fairy tale. My pastor does it every year.

Some people just have to rob others of their joy.

Remember the mom in Miracle on 34th St.? She comes off as cheerless and domineering, intolerant of fancy and of a child’s need for it. She inflicts her own shortcomings on her child and calls it common sense, practicality, truthfulness. I know I sure didn’t like her! (This refers to the old black and white version… never seen the newer one.)

Don’t be a killjoy and insist upon that being something praiseworthy.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Personally, I don’t think we should tell our children lies. We’ve all heard children cry over when they discover “Santa” is not really. I have some friends who took it really hard growing up. And what are we doing this to our children for? Do the few short years of believing a lie make up for the grief of losing it? Of learning that those we trust most have told us an untruth with the purpose to deceive us? Santa is not a lie. He is a fable. Vast difference.
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=119576

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=31918&highlight=lying+about+santa

I’m sorry, I know I’m going to get flamed for this, but I don’t think a priest should be obligated to perpetuate untruths. I don’t lie to children, I speak to them gently and kindly, but, if a child asks me, I don’t feel obligated to tell them something is true when I know it isn’t. There is a difference between flaming and expressing an opinion to refute. So far, nobody has flamed you. Further, you are not obligated to tell other people/s children about Santa, when they choose to raise their children with this belief. Neither was this priest. He is interferring in home life, and has no business doing it. It is not morally wrong to believe in Santa Claus. Let me guess- Like this priest, you have no children.

 

[samcarter14]

One can choose to say nothing out of respect for parental prerogative. One can condemn the superficiality and commercialization of Christmas without destroying the harmless fairy tale. My pastor does it every year.

Some people just have to rob others of their joy.

Remember the mom in Miracle on 34th St.? She comes off as cheerless and domineering, intolerant of fancy and of a child’s need for it. She inflicts her own shortcomings on her child and calls it common sense, practicality, truthfulness. I know I sure didn’t like her! (This refers to the old black and white version… never seen the newer one.)

Don’t be a killjoy and insist upon that being something praiseworthy.

I’ve seen the new 34th street movie, it was rather depressing to me, since they equated believing in God with believing in Santa–basically saying if we believe in God, we should also believe that Santa is real and exists at the North Pole.

 

[juliasmith]

I have children. I don’t believe in lying to children about Santa, the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy. They were aware that these were a part of our culture in the same way that ‘Grimm’s Fairy Tales’ are a part of our culture. I didn’t get that the priest was out of line at all. He focused on commercialization of the Christmas season. He’s right. It is a made up contrivance of advertising and marketing.
I always made sure my children understood where ‘Santa’ came from (even when I was pagan) and they knew about St Nicholas.
The priest wasn’t lying…the parents who perpetuate this stuff are, however.
I understand the OP is up-in-arms about this myth being bunked for her child. I understand people who feel that it ‘wasn’t the priest’s place to do this’. But I disagree. The priest was doing his job of presenting TRUTH. If people want to lie to their children about fat men in red suits that climb down chimneys, don’t go to mass on Epiphany. That way, you do not run the risk of your children being exposed to truth.
Seems like common sense to me…

 

[Catholic90]

I have children. I don’t believe in lying to children about Santa, the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy. They were aware that these were a part of our culture in the same way that ‘Grimm’s Fairy Tales’ are a part of our culture. I didn’t get that the priest was out of line at all. He focused on commercialization of the Christmas season. He’s right. It is a made up contrivance of advertising and marketing.
I always made sure my children understood where ‘Santa’ came from (even when I was pagan) and they knew about St Nicholas.
The priest wasn’t lying…the parents who perpetuate this stuff are, however.
I understand the OP is up-in-arms about this myth being bunked for her child. I understand people who feel that it ‘wasn’t the priest’s place to do this’. But I disagree. The priest was doing his job of presenting TRUTH. If people want to lie to their children about fat men in red suits that climb down chimneys, don’t go to mass on Epiphany. That way, you do not run the risk of your children being exposed to truth.
Seems like common sense to me…

Hmmmm, The priest CAN present the TRUTH about Jesus without overstepping his bounds about Santa. He overstepped his bounds, OR he presented his point poorly. My kids NEVER had a problem with both Santa and Jesus. Why must someone always be a spoilsport and feel they must ruin the fantasy for kids? I just don’t get that attitude.

 

[Jennifer_J]

Okay, so, what are the OTHER topics that a priest can’t discuss because there are children present? hmmmm???

The priest has NO obligation to keep the “myth” of Santa alive during Mass. Today’s Santa isn’t St Nicholas, oh there may be some roots there, but the Santa we see commerically isn’t St Nicholas. We celebrate St Nicholas on his feast day, we give presents on Christmas and honor the Magi on Epiphany (I’m working on adding small gifts on this day, maybe). If parents want to perpetuate the “myth” of Santa in their home, more power to them, but to undermine the Priests authority and say he was “mistaken” or “lying” is harmful to your children as well. YOU are the one’s not being truthful. Maybe now’s the time to “fess up” and talk about St Nicholas a bit more. Speak about the gift of giving to others. To de-emphasis Santa. If they are old enought to really listen to the homily AND ask questions about what Father said, it’s probably time to let them know about Santa…

 

[Lujack]

Okay, so, what are the OTHER topics that a priest can’t discuss because there are children present? hmmmm???

The priest has NO obligation to keep the “myth” of Santa alive during Mass. Today’s Santa isn’t St Nicholas, oh there may be some roots there, but the Santa we see commerically isn’t St Nicholas. We celebrate St Nicholas on his feast day, we give presents on Christmas and honor the Magi on Epiphany (I’m working on adding small gifts on this day, maybe). If parents want to perpetuate the “myth” of Santa in their home, more power to them, but to undermine the Priests authority and say he was “mistaken” or “lying” is harmful to your children as well. YOU are the one’s not being truthful. Maybe now’s the time to “fess up” and talk about St Nicholas a bit more. Speak about the gift of giving to others. To de-emphasis Santa. If they are old enought to really listen to the homily AND ask questions about what Father said, it’s probably time to let them know about Santa…

The priest has no obligation, but he has no reason to do it, either. Do you walk up to four and five year olds during December and say “There is no Santa Claus!”?

There’s just no reason to do it. Heck, its even possible for the priest to bring up Santa Claus and the true meaning of Christmas without dismissing him as false.

 

[leonie]

I got in big trouble last year in my 3rd grade ccd class because my 12 year student assistant remarked off handedly that there was no “Santa Claus.”

I couldn’t apologize, though, because I felt like I had no obligation to continue a myth that detracts from the Catholic meaning of the feast of the Nativity. A child (12 year old) told other kids (8-9 year olds) a truth. So what?

I’m with Paul.

I also think that a Catholic priest is under no obligation to continue a myth that detracts from the Catholic celebration of the Incarnation. shrug.

It’s also been my experience that little kids stop believing when they are ready. They refuse to believe those who say Santa doesn’t exist.

I’ve also heard adults say that when they found out Santa didn’t exist, they felt betrayed–by their parents. So, it can be harmful to actively promote this myth.

In my ccd class, we did spend time talking about St. Nicholas Day and the real saint…

 

[basilisk]

So many people who find virtue in taking away other people’s children’s fairy tales, fables, legends, etc.

I pity children raised without a sense of wonder and magic. It’s a natural part of childhood, and I think it is tragic that so many people are not only so determined to keep that from children, but loudly proclaim their virtue in doing so.

I think I am going to take the tack of PaulinVA and keep my kids a little isolated in December, to keep them away from the killjoys loudly bleating about Santa’s non-existence and their own moral solidity.

 

[needtoknow5]

I see some people support the priest and some do not. So we must be very careful. There is some truth in what he has said, but how and when he said it has importance. First of all, we must be kind to our priests as they are human also. Many people want to condem right away-typical human nature. Let’s us be kind, and not send letters to the Bishop but approach the priest and explain kindly how we and our children (You did say Teen mass) could have been affected.
I have great respect for priests -we have so few now. Should we be making it dificult for them-to satisfy our own desires.
Perhaps we can ask the Father to show at another mass that their are two Santas. St. Nick and how he gave presents to the poor and Santa Claus who gives presents to all children. Also, tell the Father that many Christians like the idea of Santa for children -at least up to 8-9 yrs of age.

 

[Jennifer_J]

The priest has no obligation, but he has no reason to do it, either. Do you walk up to four and five year olds during December and say “There is no Santa Claus!”?

There’s just no reason to do it. Heck, its even possible for the priest to bring up Santa Claus and the true meaning of Christmas without dismissing him as false.

No, but if they asked me I would tell them the truth . You see, we’re a family that doesn’t emphasis Santa. When you’re children are in public, there is no guarantee that others share your views of Santa (or anything else) and won’t say something about “no Santa”. Knowing that Santa isn’t real doesn’t diminish Christmas or Joy or Fun or anything. We aren’t dour or grumpy or a grinch or whatever other mean names have been said about those who don’t focus on Santa…
" [The Grinch] hadn’t stopped Christmas from coming. IT CAME!..“Maybe Christmas,” he thought, "doesn’t come from a store. “Maybe Christas…perhaps…means a little bit more!”

Just a thought.

 

[Jennifer_J]

So many people who find virtue in taking away other people’s children’s fairy tales, fables, legends, etc.

I pity children raised without a sense of wonder and magic. It’s a natural part of childhood, and I think it is tragic that so many people are not only so determined to keep that from children, but loudly proclaim their virtue in doing so.

I think I am going to take the tack of PaulinVA and keep my kids a little isolated in December, to keep them away from the killjoys loudly bleating about Santa’s non-existence and their own moral solidity.

DON’T pity my children, they have plenty of imagination, great senses of wonder and magic. We just don’t focus on SANTA. HE’S NOT CHRIST…I find it insulting that because we might choose differently than you and don’t see that the Priest said anything earthshattering, that you then feel free to CALL NAMES. Whatever did children do before Santa? I also can’t believe that you all are ready to crucify this Priest over what he said! Wow…all the worlds problems must really be solved.

 

[basilisk]

I find it insulting that because we might choose differently than you and don’t see that the Priest said anything earthshattering, that you then feel free to CALL NAMES.

I find it insulting that because we might choose differently from the unSantas, so many people find purposeful cruelty toward OUR children not only acceptable, but laudable!

 

[Lujack]

I got in big trouble last year in my 3rd grade ccd class because my 12 year student assistant remarked off handedly that there was no “Santa Claus.”

I couldn’t apologize, though, because I felt like I had no obligation to continue a myth that detracts from the Catholic meaning of the feast of the Nativity. A child (12 year old) told other kids (8-9 year olds) a truth. So what?

I’m with Paul.

I also think that a Catholic priest is under no obligation to continue a myth that detracts from the Catholic celebration of the Incarnation. shrug.

See, I don’t see how this detracts from the Incarnation at all. Santa Claus is Santa Claus. When I was little, we went on the NORAD Radar to track Santa Claus on Christmas Eve night, got up early and opened presents, and then went to Mass. We always understood perfectly well how important the Incarnation was, and that it was more important than Santa Claus.

Now none of us technically believe in Santa anymore, but we still play the game, because its fun. I personally like the idea of Santa kneeling before creche. It expresses the meaning of the season to kids in a good way. If Santa Claus detracts from the Incarnation, though, so do gifts, Christmas dinner, and Charles Dickens.

It’s also been my experience that little kids stop believing when they are ready. They refuse to believe those who say Santa doesn’t exist.

This is true, but there’s no reason to give everybody a headache.

I’ve also heard adults say that when they found out Santa didn’t exist, they felt betrayed–by their parents. So, it can be harmful to actively promote this myth.

In my ccd class, we did spend time talking about St. Nicholas Day and the real saint…

Well, none of my brothers or any of our friends felt betrayed. I can only speak from personal experience here, though.

 

[samcarter14]

I always find it interesting that adults get so up in arms about children being told what they (the adults) acknowledge as a truth.

Equating the truth about Santa with “taking away fairy tales and folklore” is a straw man. If somebody came up to your kids and told them, “Hansel and Gretel isn’t a true story,” would you be angry? Probably not, because you have not based your holiday on such a story. You have not spent time and money, probably, into convincing your children that Hansel and Gretel are real.

Parents start the Santa myth in their families for whatever reasons: They had fond memories of it, they think it’s fun for the kids, they don’t want their kids to feel left out of a secular tradition, whatever. I think their anger over their children being told the truth is simply that now they will have to deal with their children knowing that they (the parents) did in fact mislead them with a fiction and pretended it was real.

In our family, we made the decision to not emphasize Santa Claus. Partly because my DH was shocked when his 9 year old nephew came to him and said, “My dad lied to me about Santa, and now I don’t know whether to believe him about God.” Yes, that’s an extreme example. But DH didn’t want to risk it.

We DO respect other families’ traditions. We have very close friends who celebrate Christmas with Santa as part of their traditions. I helped the mom shop to find a sleigh bell, because her son wanted a “bell off Santa’s sleigh”. I have instructed my own children to NOT enlighten other children, because it is up to their own parents to decide when to share the truth.

I don’t think the priest was out of line to discuss the commercialization of Christmas. It’s a timely message. Jesus is not present in the lines at the mall to see Santa. Most children’s first lesson about Christmas is “we get presents”.

 

[basilisk]

Most children’s first lesson about Christmas is “we get presents”.

And right alongside Santa Claus, we teach our children that the origin of and reason for gifts at Christmas was that the magi brought gifts to Christ. I have not seen the Santa myth damaging children’s Christian formation. It’s parents who are apathetic about their faith who do that.

Allowing my kids to indulge in a cultural Christmas myth does not make me a bad Christian. Any more than those people who “lie” to their kids about the Christkind coming and leaving gifts in their shoe. That’s a “lie” too, but since it centers on Jesus, it’s more OK? Or do these same priests and other anti-myth types go around telling children, “The Christ Child doesn’t REALLY come your house!”

 

[Jennifer_J]

I find it insulting that because we might choose differently from the unSantas, so many people find purposeful cruelty toward OUR children not only acceptable, but laudable!

How is what the Priest said “cruel”? Torture is cruel. Bullying is cruel. Name calling is cruel. Abuse is cruel. Hunger is cruel. The Truth about Santa? Not so cruel…Look the priest said this at a TEEN Mass. He was speaking to the majority audience. I ask you What Else Can’t The Priest Say because children are present?

I respect your right to perpetuate this myth at home. However, when you are out and about there is no right, in this day and age, to your children not learning that Santa is a myth. I don’t even know how it’s possible once a child hits about 5 or 6. Our Catholic school certainly doesn’t perpetuate Santa. at. all. So how do you avoid it?

 

[basilisk]

Are priests not required to be charitable, compassionate, merciful, and kind? Even if he thinks Santa inadvisable, as the Church does not teach that parents are forbidden to indulge in the myth, shouldn’t the priest err on the side of not hurting people whenever he can?

It’s not about restricting his ability to preach on matters of real importance. It’s about him not hurting anyone UNNECESSARILY! On abortion, euthanasia, service to the poor, just/unjust war… hurt people’s FEELINGS in order to communicate MORAL TRUTH. When dealing with things the Church has not expicitly condemned/advocated, tread carefully and do not hurt if possible. Why is that so much to ask?

 

[Catholic90]

No, but if they asked me I would tell them the truth .

If someone ELSE’S children asked me this question, I would tell them to ask THEIR PARENTS. It is NOT my right nor responsibility to “educate” someone else’s kids about Santa. That is between the parents and their kids.

Many people on this board have reservations about what type of reading material or movies they allow THEIR children to read or watch. That is ENTIRELY THEIR RIGHT, because it is THEIR children!! I have allowed my kids to read Harry Potter from first grade on. They’ve seen the movies, AND (gasp, horror, riots in the streets) I’ve allowed my teens to view some R rated movies. We also watch Family Guy, Simpsons, et al. Other parents choose to NOT ALLOW this. That is entirely their right as the parents of THEIR children. That is the beauty of having your OWN KIDS. The PARENTS get to choose what to allow for their kids!!! Sooo…if a family chooses to do the Santa thing, it should be up to the FAMILY to tell the child. For YOU, a non-Santa doing adult, to go up to Santa-believing child and say “you DO KNOW their is no Santa, right?” would be akin to me inviting a child into my home who I know is not allowed to watch FAmily Guy and proceeding to let them watch it. Or read the Harry Potter series to them. ETc.

Get it? Parents can choose to do or not do Santa as they desire. However, it is NOT up to anyone else to tell another parent when it is time to end the “fantasy”.

Kill joys.

 

[Jennifer_J]

Are priests not required to be charitable, compassionate, merciful, and kind? Even if he thinks Santa inadvisable, as the Church does not teach that parents are forbidden to indulge in the myth, shouldn’t the priest err on the side of not hurting people whenever he can?

It’s not about restricting his ability to preach on matters of real importance. It’s about him not hurting anyone UNNECESSARILY! On abortion, euthanasia, service to the poor, just/unjust war… hurt people’s FEELINGS in order to communicate MORAL TRUTH. When dealing with things the Church has not expicitly condemned/advocated, tread carefully and do not hurt if possible. Why is that so much to ask?

Ramant consumerism and selfishness isn’t important? Again, how is the Priest being cruel? He was speaking to his main audience–teens at a teen mass. Perhaps he wishes (now, post ranting letter) that he had chosen his words more carefully, but what REAL damage has he done in revealing the myth of Santa? I think more damage is done when the parent continues to lie and to say the Priest is wrong…if the child can ask, the parent should answer as honestly as possible…“Our family chooses to believe in Santa.” or something like that.