Priest stripped of his duties after performing Mass with a woman priest

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Well, there is an interesting site on the topic, for those who want to read an alternate point of view:

romancatholicwomenpriests.org

They claim to be ordained in the Apostolic Tradition, and that it is a modern phenomenon to deny ordination to women.

Among their statements is the following:
Epigraphic evidence exists of women bishops. Until at least the ninth century the Church gave women the full sacramental ordination of deacons. Women priests existed in the West during the 4th and 5th centuries according to literary evidence, and according to epigraphic evidence.
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They freely admit that they are in violation of Canon Law.
 
epan said:
Well, there is an interesting site on the topic, for those who want to read an alternate point of view:

romancatholicwomenpriests.org

They claim to be ordained in the Apostolic Tradition, and that it is a modern phenomenon to deny ordination to women.

Among their statements is the following:

They freely admit that they are in violation of Canon Law.
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I can say that I’m descended from Alfred the Great, too. 🤷 Doesn’t make it true.

At least they admit that they’re going against the teachings of the Church. I find it odd that this group would even call themselves Roman Catholic, when they clearly don’t act like such.

Always amazes me, how much some people want something for nothing.
 
Lochias said:
I can say that I’m descended from Alfred the Great, too. 🤷 Doesn’t make it true.

At least they admit that they’re going against the teachings of the Church. I find it odd that this group would even call themselves Roman Catholic, when they clearly don’t act like such.

Always amazes me, how much some people want something for nothing.
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So, would your claim be that if a woman is ordained by a male Catholic bishop, that the ordination is invalid?

Here is what the women who think that they are ordained Catholic priests have to say:
The Roman Catholic Womenpriests is a renewal movement within the Church that began in Germany with the ordination of seven women on the Danube River in 2002. In 2003, Gisela Forster and Christine Mayr-Lumetzberger (two of the original Danube 7) were ordained bishops and in 2005 Patricia Fresen from South Africa (who currently lives in Germany) was also ordained a bishop. Womenbishops ordained in Apostolic Succession continue to carry out the work of ordaining women in the Roman Catholic Church. In 2006, Ida Raming was ordained a bishop and in 2008 Dana Reynolds of California became the first American Roman Catholic Womanbishop. These women and those who have come after them continue to carry on the pastoral work of ordaining women to the priesthood. Currently there are over 145 Roman Catholic women worldwide who are reclaiming their ancient spiritual heritage and are re-shaping a more inclusive, Christ-centered Church for the 21st century. We advocate a new model of priestly ministry united with the people with whom we serve. We are rooted in a response to Jesus who called women and men to be disciples and equals living the Gospel.
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epan said:
So, would your claim be that if a woman is ordained by a male Catholic bishop, that the ordination is invalid?
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Yes.

And that’s basically the end of discussion. It is invalid; it just is.

We have no authority to use chips and beer for the Eucharist, therefore we can’t. We have no authority to use Head & Shoulders for confirmation instead of oil, so we can’t. And we have no authority to ordain women to the priesthood, so we can’t. There’s no if, ands, or buts about it, it just is that way.

And no amount of temper tantrums or whining by women will change that fact. Liberals always love St. Francis, now why can’t they just listen to him?
God grant me the serenity
**to accept the things I cannot change; **
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

This is something that cannot change. You cannot fight God Himself on this and think to win.

If you want to pretend that you can change it (because denying the reality of things is all hipster and stuff in this day and age), then stop pretending to be Catholic. To be Catholic is to be in union with the Pope. If you disobey the Pope (the Church, for whom the Pope speaks), then you are not in union with him. That’s just basic logic.
 
OK, look at it this way. I desperately want to be a U.S. Marine. I have wanted to be a Marine since I was a small boy.But I went to the Marines and flunked the physical. So, I got a retired former Marine Gunnery Sergeant who lives down my street to administer the oath of enlistment to me and I bought myself a nice uniform from the thrift shop.
Question: Am I now truly a United States Marine? And if not, why not?
Answer: Neither a Marine Gunnery Sergeant nor a Catholic Bishop has the power to administer an oath or a sacrament to someone who is not authorized to receive it.
Neither the oath nor the sacrament is effectual.
One must be a commissioned officer or a Warrant officer to administer the oath of enlistment and in order to confect a sacrament, all elements must be present. The elements for ordination are no different. Matter= a male candidate, Form= The proper prayers of the Church, Intent= what the Church intends to do. Notice, what the CHURCH intends to do, NOT the Bishop.
Anyone who either attempts to receive or to confer an illegal sacrament is excommunicated Laetae Sententiae and by virtue of that excommunication automatically voids any action.
Am I now a United States Marine by virtue of my “oath” of enlistment?
Answer: No. My good neighbor, recognized my intense longing to be a Marine, but he just did not have the power nor the authority to grant my wish.

Sorry ladies, some things will always be beyond your reach, like bushy beards and priesthood. Too bad. Although some feminists are getting real close with the beards.😃
 
hosemonkey said:
OK, look at it this way. I desperately want to be a U.S. Marine. I have wanted to be a Marine since I was a small boy.But I went to the Marines and flunked the physical. So, I got a retired former Marine Gunnery Sergeant who lives down my street to administer the oath of enlistment to me and I bought myself a nice uniform from the thrift shop.
Question: Am I now truly a United States Marine? And if not, why not?
Answer: Neither a Marine Gunnery Sergeant nor a Catholic Bishop has the power to administer an oath or a sacrament to someone who is not authorized to receive it.
Neither the oath nor the sacrament is effectual.
One must be a commissioned officer or a Warrant officer to administer the oath of enlistment and in order to confect a sacrament, all elements must be present. The elements for ordination are no different. Matter= a male candidate, Form= The proper prayers of the Church, Intent= what the Church intends to do. Notice, what the CHURCH intends to do, NOT the Bishop.
Anyone who either attempts to receive or to confer an illegal sacrament is excommunicated Laetae Sententiae and by virtue of that excommunication automatically voids any action.
Am I now a United States Marine by virtue of my “oath” of enlistment?
Answer: No. My good neighbor, recognized my intense longing to be a Marine, but he just did not have the power nor the authority to grant my wish.

Sorry ladies, some things will always be beyond your reach, like bushy beards and priesthood. Too bad. Although some feminists are getting real close with the beards.😃
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Excellent analogy, and very nicely put until your last sentence. Then you got snarky. Perhaps changing the statement to say something like the fact that women are able to bear children raises them higher than a man can ever go, and that’s not “too bad”.
 
epan said:
And that is where the argument kinda falls apart, which results in an impasse.
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That is simply because there is no argument. As the beer and chips analogy illustrates, a priest or bishop can say the Mass completely and take special care to recite the words of institution over the gifts of chips and beer with full intention to have transubstantiation take place; however, after all is said and done the gifts are still simple chips and beer.

A well intentioned but mislead bishop may intend to ordain a woman go through all of the prescribed rituals and “ordain” a woman; after all is said and done she is still a woman, not a woman priest. Now we can believe anything we like, but it doesn’t make it so.

I can believe that the beer and chips have become the body and blood of Christ, but we would be fooling ourselves much like the women who believe they are priests in the Latin Rite Catholic Church are fooling their selves in said belief.

So to say that there is an impasse is not accurate. There is disobedience and ignorance but no impasse.
 
agapewolf said:
Excellent analogy, and very nicely put until your last sentence. Then you got snarky. Perhaps changing the statement to say something like the fact that women are able to bear children raises them higher than a man can ever go, and that’s not “too bad”.
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My apologies if I came across as snarky. I was trying to illustrate the sheer impossibility of ordination for women in the Roman Catholic Church.
 
hosemonkey said:
I was trying to illustrate the sheer impossibility of ordination for women in the Roman Catholic Church.
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This point seems to get lost in the debates. I haven’t read through all of the comments in this thread but it is worth quoting (again?) the response from JPII on this subject:Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful. (Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, 1994)
This is an infallible teaching and I am at a complete loss to understand how anyone could seriously believe the issue is still unresolved or that there will ever be women priests in the Catholic Church.

Ender*
*
 
epan said:
And that is where the argument kinda falls apart, which results in an impasse.
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That’s because there was never a valid argument to begin with. Putting one’s hands to one’s ears and shouting “La La La!” when told that something can’t be changed, is not a valid argument.
 
Ender said:
This is an infallible teaching and I am at a complete loss to understand how anyone could seriously believe the issue is still unresolved or that there will ever be women priests in the Catholic Church
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I agree with you completely. Those promoting this heresy use the cumbersome “woman priest” instead of the more accurate priestess.
 
Lochias said:
That’s because there was never a valid argument to begin with. Putting one’s hands to one’s ears and shouting “La La La!” when told that something can’t be changed, is not a valid argument.
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You missed the point, completely. But that’s OK. It might be a case of, “La La La!”
 
It has been clearly infallibly defined in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis and by the universal ordinary magisterium that it is impossible for the Church to ordain women. Anyone who thinks otherwise therefore denies the infallibility of Christ’s Church and cannot rightly be considered Catholic:(. We must pray for the dissidents who spread the false idea of female ordination that they respond to God’s grace and return to full understanding and union with the Church:).
 
hosemonkey said:
in order to confect a sacrament, all elements must be present. The elements for ordination are no different. Matter= a male candidate, Form= The proper prayers of the Church, Intent= what the Church intends to do. Notice, what the CHURCH intends to do, NOT the Bishop.
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Actually, no. The matter of the sacrament is the laying on of hands. The subject of the sacrament is a male candidate.
 
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