Priest Suspended for Riding Hoverboard Up Aisles During Christmas Mass

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Tarpeian_Rock said:
The picture was Rome in the 1950’s, so hardly are “modern, Western values” being “imposed.” That kind of ostentatious display, no matter how “traditional,” should have ended long before. Those ostrich-feather fans are an emblem of imperial authority that I believe go back to the Byzantine Empire, if not Constantine himself. Try saying “shoes of the fisherman” while looking at that picture. I’m glad to be living in the era of a Pope who rides in a Ford Fiesta. Symbols count.
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An American republican bias shines through these sorts of comments. I live in a constitutional monarchy and weep at the loss of symbols that point to the glory of Christ the King. Christ is both a King in glory and the humble servant who emptied himself. At appropriate times and places His vicars (pope and bishops) should embody both.

As noted earlier, I agree such practices would do more harm than good today, but only because the average modern Christian has lost an appreciation of monarchy and the role it can play as an icon of Christ the King.
 
twf said:
An American republican bias shines through these sorts of comments. I live in a constitutional monarchy and weep at the loss of symbols that point to the glory of Christ the King. Christ is both a King in glory and the humble servant who emptied himself. At appropriate times and places His vicars (pope and bishops) should embody both.

As noted earlier, I agree such practices would do more harm than good today, but only because the average modern Christian has lost an appreciation of monarchy and the role it can play as an icon of Christ the King.
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His Kingship is not of this world though. Too many have tried to conflate his Kingship with their own earthly reigns, often to the detriment of those in their countries or under their yokes. The Lateran treaty did away with the earthly kingdoms of the pope and freed him, IMHO, to better point the way to the Kingdom of Heaven and again IMHO that comes more from imitating our King’s humility than worldly pomp.

I live in the same constitutional monarchy, and while I think it is a better system of government than a republic, I am troubled by the fact that my queen is also the titular head of a heretical church that has in past times caused great harm to Catholics. That is, IMHO, the danger of conflating His Kingship with the reigns of earthly rulers.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Huh, is that a picture of pope Francis and the liberal media? Or is it a rendition of the future democratic convention?
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Please don’t give the dems ideas - will Hil publish tips on dealing with crown hair if we get stuck with her?
 
OraLabora said:
His Kingship is not of this world though. Too many have tried to conflate his Kingship with their own earthly reigns, often to the detriment of those in their countries or under their yokes. The Lateran treaty did away with the earthly kingdoms of the pope and freed him, IMHO, to better point the way to the Kingdom of Heaven and again IMHO that comes more from imitating our King’s humility than worldly pomp.

I live in the same constitutional monarchy, and while I think it is a better system of government than a republic, I am troubled by the fact that my queen is also the titular head of a heretical church that has in past times caused great harm to Catholics. That is, IMHO, the danger of conflating His Kingship with the reigns of earthly rulers.
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I understand where you’re going with this, and agree that the pope and bishops should not confuse their roles with that of earthly rulers, but I think there is a big difference between adopting (sanctifying if you will) the external symbols of earthly rulers as representations of heavenly glory and a pope/bishop actually ruling over an earthly kingdom. If we take the line of thinking too far, we would have to start calling for bishops to wear slacks and a t-shirt when presiding at mass rather than the very kingly robes tradition calls for. Among our Eastern Catholic / Orthodox brethren, bishops literally wear what was once the crown of the byzantine emperor when presiding at liturgical functions.
 
twf said:
I understand where you’re going with this, and agree that the pope and bishops should not confuse their roles with that of earthly rulers, but I think there is a big difference between adopting (sanctifying if you will) the external symbols of earthly rulers as representations of heavenly glory and a pope/bishop actually ruling over an earthly kingdom. If we take the line of thinking too far, we would have to start calling for bishops to wear slacks and a t-shirt when presiding at mass rather than the very kingly robes tradition calls for. Among our Eastern Catholic / Orthodox brethren, bishops literally wear what was once the crown of the byzantine emperor when presiding at liturgical functions.
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yes they do. I belonged to a church and an Eastern Catholic priest would co-celebrate the Mass and he wore the crown.
 
For me I would be-and am-more upset for the poor, the hungry and the homeless. Remember that Jesus defied a lot of conventions when He preached to the disciples and His followers. I guess if you went into a church theses days and turned over tables and whipped the money changers you would get arrested. Give the priest a break as he was repentant.
 
twf said:
I understand where you’re going with this, and agree that the pope and bishops should not confuse their roles with that of earthly rulers, but I think there is a big difference between adopting (sanctifying if you will) the external symbols of earthly rulers as representations of heavenly glory and a pope/bishop actually ruling over an earthly kingdom. If we take the line of thinking too far, we would have to start calling for bishops to wear slacks and a t-shirt when presiding at mass rather than the very kingly robes tradition calls for. Among our Eastern Catholic / Orthodox brethren, bishops literally wear what was once the crown of the byzantine emperor when presiding at liturgical functions.
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I think the clergy and pope have to highlight that His Kingship is not of this world. And I agree that vestments, incense, appropriate worship music and the Liturgy (both Office and especially Mass) are required to take us out of this world and give us a taste of the Kingdom of Heaven.

I do think however, that when the display is ostentatiously over the top as in that photo, it goes beyond giving us a taste of the Kingdom of Heaven and instead smacks of a worldly desire of usurping His reign for personal power and vainglory.

Or that could just be my penchant for monastic simplicity speaking, though I admit that even the abbot’s vestments, mitre and crozier seem to me over the top at times, even though the times he uses them are rare.

I do think Pope Francis strikes the right balance in that regard, with respect to his vestments. Clearly papal, but not over-the-top.
 
This could go on and on. Remember that this is a building-ie church. The priest could have been more thoughtful or reverent, but we tend to forget that Christ was born in a stable and not some grand edifice that we designate as holy. There is diffinatly a place for tradition and holy places to worship, but what I find hard is that we are so judgmental and unwilling to forgive, let along show some compassion for the priest.

When Christ first instated the “Mass” it was simple and without all the rules and regulations of Cannon Law and expectations that have become ingrained in our religious personas of the modern would. Even the vestments that are now “traditional” started out as primarily the dress and customs of the times. Am I against tradition? Absolutely not. Everything has it’s place in the Church and I enjoy-relish-tradition and the Mass of the people. Will the world end because a priest tried to bring a bit of joy into the Church for the people? Don’t think so.

We do not know what was-is-in the heart of the priest, so I will not sit in judgment as the Bishop has acted in this situation. It is the Year of Mercy so I will try to adhere to what the church is asking of us. Am I gonna get a lot of flack for my post? Probably. But ask yourselves, "What would Jesus(judge)do? Peace.
 
Mary_Estelle said:
This could go on and on. Remember that this is a building-ie church. The priest could have been more thoughtful or reverent, but we tend to forget that Christ was born in a stable and not some grand edifice that we designate as holy. There is diffinatly a place for tradition and holy places to worship, but what I find hard is that we are so judgmental and unwilling to forgive, let along show some compassion for the priest.

When Christ first instated the “Mass” it was simple and without all the rules and regulations of Cannon Law and expectations that have become ingrained in our religious personas of the modern would. Even the vestments that are now “traditional” started out as primarily the dress and customs of the times. Am I against tradition? Absolutely not. Everything has it’s place in the Church and I enjoy-relish-tradition and the Mass of the people. Will the world end because a priest tried to bring a bit of joy into the Church for the people? Don’t think so.

We do not know what was-is-in the heart of the priest, so I will not sit in judgment as the Bishop has acted in this situation. It is the Year of Mercy so I will try to adhere to what the church is asking of us. Am I gonna get a lot of flack for my post? Probably. But ask yourselves, "What would Jesus(judge)do? Peace.
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jesus would not ride a hover board to Calvary. His path was a tad harder than that. Nor would he approve most certainly of the person “in persona Christi”. Doing it either. It’s sad. It’s disrespectful. How about in this year of mercy we realize what gives us that mercy. The broken body of Christ. Not the hottest new toy of 2015. Francis is certainly not known for his liturgical rigidity but he IS known for his aversion to materialism, which was part of the problem here too. I think you go further in defending this priest than even he did as he apologized for it and most certainly will be better in the future. No need to pile on him of course as this has been handled. But using this as some sort of referendum on “rules” is precocity why this priest had to be disciplined publicly. You claim yourself a fan of tradition. I’d love to know what that means in your opinion…

Flack enough for you?
 
OraLabora said:
I think the clergy and pope have to highlight that His Kingship is not of this world. And I agree that vestments, incense, appropriate worship music and the Liturgy (both Office and especially Mass) are required to take us out of this world and give us a taste of the Kingdom of Heaven.

I do think however, that when the display is ostentatiously over the top as in that photo, it goes beyond giving us a taste of the Kingdom of Heaven and instead smacks of a worldly desire of usurping His reign for personal power and vainglory.

Or that could just be my penchant for monastic simplicity speaking, though I admit that even the abbot’s vestments, mitre and crozier seem to me over the top at times, even though the times he uses them are rare.

I do think Pope Francis strikes the right balance in that regard, with respect to his vestments. Clearly papal, but not over-the-top.
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Tough to say. Definitely different traditions call for varying degrees of “pomp”. Monastic simplicity aside, the Roman Rite was traditionally seen as more “austere” than the Byzantine Rite. I think a Byzantine monk, and probably many Benedictines for that matter, would say the monk, including the abbot, should exhibit the humble simplicity of apostolic poverty in day to day life, the very embodiment of Christ the servant who emptied himself, but don the full splendor of majestic kingly robes when acting in the person of Christ at holy mass.
 
Where did I ever say it was OK to be irreverent or flaunt the rules of the Church? I guess that what you perceive as defending the priest is that we, as people of God, are so judgmental and unforgiving. I knew that a couple of you would “pile on,” because you feel that your own righteousness is greater than the Bishop’s. Where is your sense of mercy and forgiveness? As you and I were not there on Christmas Eve, we do not know the total situation or circumstances. If Jesus were alive today we would not really know what he would do, but one thing I am sure of, Jesus would be merciful and forgiving. Peace.
 
Mary_Estelle said:
Where did I ever say it was OK to be irreverent or flaunt the rules of the Church? I guess that what you perceive as defending the priest is that we, as people of God, are so judgmental and unforgiving. I knew that a couple of you would “pile on,” because you feel that your own righteousness is greater than the Bishop’s. Where is your sense of mercy and forgiveness? As you and I were not there on Christmas Eve, we do not know the total situation or circumstances. If Jesus were alive today we would not really know what he would do, but one thing I am sure of, Jesus would be merciful and forgiving. Peace.
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You seem to miss the whole idea that he has been public ally rebuked by the diocese and the bishop to which he responded in one of the best most obedient attitudes I have seen with these situations. No excuses. Taking responsibility and saying it would not happen again. Does it bother you that he himself thinks it wrong. He or the bishop did not say " hey it’s the spirit of the intentions that matter? No. They handled the situation correctly. Do you think the bishop is being judgemental and rigid?
Saying something like you are is promoting the idea of liturgical misguiding. Still waiting to hear what parts of the rules or tradition you are fond of…
 
Mary_Estelle said:
If Jesus were alive today we would not really know what he would do, but one thing I am sure of, Jesus would be merciful and forgiving. Peace.
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Hmmm. Did Christ assure us He would never crack His whip again?
 
The situation might have seemed more equitable if the priest gave everyone a chance to try out his new hover board. :rolleyes:
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
You seem to miss the whole idea that he has been public ally rebuked by the diocese and the bishop to which he responded in one of the best most obedient attitudes I have seen with these situations. No excuses. Taking responsibility and saying it would not happen again. Does it bother you that he himself thinks it wrong. He or the bishop did not say " hey it’s the spirit of the intentions that matter? No. They handled the situation correctly. Do you think the bishop is being judgemental and rigid?
Saying something like you are is promoting the idea of liturgical misguiding. Still waiting to hear what parts of the rules or tradition you are fond of…
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No, you miss the idea that his Bishop has already taken action in the situation. People that know me would say that I am very conserviitive and traditional. I hope I am forgiving as well. Your continual Cruciifiction of the priest and argumentive tone makes me hope I never meet you on judgement day. What is done is done and his bishop has taken care of it. I don’t make excuses for him, but only ask that we show mercy toward him. With that, I wish you wellness, good health and may you never fall off your hoverboard.

I am just going to add this. As I got rear-ended last eve. I am just not up to making this an international affair. I forgave the guy who hit me in the back of the van and told the cop that I didn’t wish to pursue the incident. Things happen to good people.
 
Mary_Estelle said:
No, you miss the idea that his Bishop has already taken action in the situation. People that know me would say that I am very conserviitive and traditional. I hope I am forgiving as well. Your continual Cruciifiction of the priest and argumentive tone makes me hope I never meet you on judgement day. What is done is done and his bishop has taken care of it. I don’t make excuses for him, but only ask that we show mercy toward him. With that, I wish you wellness, good health and may you never fall off your hoverboard.
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Weird. I refer you to post 33.

Why does your forgiving, understanding, rush to judgement, mercy etc only apply to this situation. You are misunderstanding others as no one here is piling on that priest. You should think about your position.
The only thing I point out is that from the beginning of this thread you have assumed wrong. 1) you were not aware when mass ended.
2) you gave odd excuses like maybe the priest had knee problems and therefore needed to ride a dangerous toy.
3). After the priest and bishop admitted the wrongdoing and vowed to correct it you still attempted to oddly explain it away. As if you were misunderstanding how correction works.
4). No one is attacking this priest. It was handled well and has been corrected. It is actually a model of how abuses should be handled. I think the priest will become more educated about the mass he says. I also commend him for his humility in correction. If all bishops and priests handled this exactly the same way there would be more if a reverence for the sacrifice of the mass and a void of liturgical complaining.
5) instead of seeing that why do you continue to seem intent on defending the ACTION when the bishop and the OFFENDER HIMSELF have not done so?
6). It does appear that you wish to judge those who judge… Odd

In a quick and hardly thorough glance at your postings I have not seen anything that would give one a reason to label you a traditionalist, conservative, liturgical, rigid, or any thing of the sort so you can rest easy from being labeled as such.
 
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