Priest telling potential converts to remain protestant

[Saint_Michael]

Now I would say something like, “Okay, either you think I am not worthy to start receiving the sacraments, or you think the sacraments are not necessary for a complete spiritual life. Which is it?”

DaveBj

That’s my biggest issue with these cases, do these priests have no respect for the sacraments? To tell a Prostetant to stay where they appears that they don’t feel the sacraments mean much of anything.

Is the Catholic Church going to become some linear closed Church like the Eastern Orthodox? Are we going to stop spreading the Gospel and evangelizing too? Will we begin to say “stay Muslim and be a good Muslim”, or “stay Hindu and be a good Hindu” to a Hindu or Moslem convert?

I don’t get it…

 

[dch1983]

This kind of knowledgeable convert can scare the incumbents.

As a convert who came intjo the Church after training as an Episcopal priest, I was not made unwelcome but, believe me, there certainly wasn’t any red carpet or fatted calf!

They’re not necessarily thrilled to see somebody coming who can quote Scripture, the Fathers, the *Catechism, *the GIRM, and Canon Law even before they’ve signed on the dotted line.

This is more of what I don’t understand. Wouldn’t someone who is schooled in Christianity, who can do the things you mentioned above, AND who is seeking to be received into the Catholic Church be desireable (for lack of a better word)??? I’m not saying that priests should jump for joy over a Protestant clergyman converting, but shouldn’t they at least be gracious and welcoming? I know this person had no intention of debating dogma or doctrine; he was pursuing the Truth that the Catholic Church claims to be.

DaveBj said:

Now I would say something like, “Okay, either you think I am not worthy to start receiving the sacraments, or you think the sacraments are not necessary for a complete spiritual life. Which is it?”

This is the logical conclusion a possible convert draws from this type of engagement.

It’s disappointing…

 

[mercygate]

This is more of what I don’t understand. Wouldn’t someone who is schooled in Christianity, who can do the things you mentioned above, AND who is seeking to be received into the Catholic Church be desireable (for lack of a better word)??? I’m not saying that priests should jump for joy over a Protestant clergyman converting, but shouldn’t they at least be gracious and welcoming? I know this person had no intention of debating dogma or doctrine; he was pursuing the Truth that the Catholic Church claims to be.

DaveBj said:

This is the logical conclusion a possible convert draws from this type of engagement.

It’s disappointing…

I have heard the dopey practice of telling people to stay where they are defended on the grounds that we need to respect the traditions of others, to avoid “triumphalism.”

Frankly, as a convert, I think the Church could use a little triumphalism. It’s not considered polite to say: “THIS and this alone is the core of the Church Jesus Christ himself promised to build upon the rock of Peter.”

 

[dch1983]

I have heard the dopey practice of telling people to stay where they are defended on the grounds that we need to respect the traditions of others, to avoid "triumphalism."

Frankly, as a convert, I think the Church could use a little triumphalism. It’s not considered polite to say: “THIS and this alone is the core of the Church Jesus Christ himself promised to build upon the rock of Peter.”

Exactly. How can the Church claim to be Chirst’s True Church, the fullness of Christianity, while not welcoming other sheep to the flock. Catholic doctrine says that we are saved through the Catholic Church alone, correct? That is not to say that everyone who isn’t Catholic is going straight to hell. But if that is what Church teaching is, how can some priests be so disinterested in this aspect of the Catholic mission?

 

[estesbob]

Thnakfully my wife had the oposite experience. When she approached our Priest he was wonderful. Since she was Episcopalean he went over the diffrerences between the 2. He never said on ill word about the Episcopal Church

She was feeling guilty about leaving the Episcopal Church so you went to see her Pastor there. He launched into a 45 tirade about the evils of Catholicism and how the Church has a lot to answer for for what they did during the Reformation.

She never went there again. One Priset told her the positives about his Church-the other the neagtives about the Church she was considering. If the approaches were reversed she would still be an Episcopalean today.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

This type of post is common. My issue with this is if the Priest is communicating clearly with the non-catholic. For example if the Priest asked this person a couple of questions and then made the decision the non-catholic can not come into communion with the Catholic Church containing these beliefs, the recommendation to stay non-catholic seams reasonable. But the Priest should also clearly explain the Church is open to the non-catholic, however the non-catholic’s current beliefs would prevent unison with the church. I wonder if this is being said by the Priest but not understood.

 

[jmcrae]

This kind of knowledgeable convert can scare the incumbents.

As a convert who came intjo the Church after training as an Episcopal priest, I was not made unwelcome but, believe me, there certainly wasn’t any red carpet or fatted calf!

They’re not necessarily thrilled to see somebody coming who can quote Scripture, the Fathers, the *Catechism, *the GIRM, and Canon Law even before they’ve signed on the dotted line.

I had a similar experience to yours - as an ordained Elder in a Protestant Church, I was told that I had to have perfect attendance at RCIA, and that I was not to speak during RCIA meetings but only listen and take notes, but to take my comments and questions directly to the priest/pastor of the Church - only under these two conditions would I be admitted to First Confession, Confirmation, and First Holy Communion.

If Jesus hadn’t told me in person that I had to become Catholic, I probably wouldn’t have gone through all of that, but looking back, I can see that it was exactly the purifying fire that I needed, at that time, because I did have a lot of pride in my knowledge of the Scriptures, etc. - and I did learn a lot in RCIA that I probably would not have, if I had been running off at the mouth, and driving the lessons off topic every week.

 

[kaygee]

The priest I approached as a teenager told me that the Catholic Church would soon be just like the church I was coming from and to just grow where I was planted. Part of it was that his pet project was an ecumenical youth program and having the president of a participating church’s youth group converting would have drowned the program. There was to be no trying to convert other Christians to one’s own denomination in that youth program. Now, 30+ years later, I am Catholic and tried to locate the priest, only to find that he had left the priesthood in disgrace back in the 80’s. sad.

 

[Contarini]

You know when I first started looking into becoming a Catholic I ran into the same thing. The priest I spoke with seemed to zero interest in me converting. This was certainly off putting. In the end it didn’t stop me, but I could see where that it would be confusing.

When someone is seeking to change religions or accept a new one. They’re leaving their previous community to seek another. Having a Priest give the impression that they either don’t care or reject you is just hurtful.

The priest’s job is not to show you that he cares or to make you feel accepted. The priest’s job is to minister the Word and the Sacraments and exercise the power of the keys.

Church-hopping is a deadly disease of American Christianity. Priests are right to discourage it.

Edwin

 

[Milliardo]

The priest’s job is not to show you that he cares or to make you feel accepted. The priest’s job is to minister the Word and the Sacraments and exercise the power of the keys.

No, that would be quite imprecise. If such is the case, then being Catholic would be a gloomy enterprise, with an uncaring clergy that only looks after itself, and not to its congregation, or even to those outside it. In fact, if such is the case, then missionary work should not be done, for what is missionary work but to spread the Gospel, make Christ known, and to welcome those who are looking to enter the Church? So we can clearly see that a priest isn’t just minister of His Word and the Sacraments, but is a Father to his flock, and even to those who are not but want to enter the family.

 

[Eireann]

Some could be testing the persons convictions, if the priest said stay the way you are, and they did, then it wouldn’t show as an immense desire to be Catholic, and may not stick the pace.

No use planting the seed of faith on stoney ground…

*Matt 13:20 *** And he that received the seed upon stony ground, is he that heareth the word, and immediately receiveth it with joy.

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but is only for a time: and when there ariseth tribulation and persecution because of the word, he is presently scandalized.

22* And he that received the seed among thorns, is he that heareth the word, and the care of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choketh up the word, and he becometh fruitless *.

** 23** But he that received the seed upon good ground, is he that heareth the word, and understandeth, and beareth fruit, and yieldeth the one an hundredfold, and another sixty, and another thirty.

 

[THutch04]

This is somewhat off topic, but isn’t it common in Orthodox Judaism for a Rabbi to say no to a potential convert three times? I thought I remembered hearing that it was at least at one point.

 

[PassthePeace1]

I would find a different priest!!

 

[mercygate]

I had a similar experience to yours - as an ordained Elder in a Protestant Church, I was told that I had to have perfect attendance at RCIA, and that I was not to speak during RCIA meetings but only listen and take notes, but to take my comments and questions directly to the priest/pastor of the Church - only under these two conditions would I be admitted to First Confession, Confirmation, and First Holy Communion.

If Jesus hadn’t told me in person that I had to become Catholic, I probably wouldn’t have gone through all of that, but looking back, I can see that it was exactly the purifying fire that I needed, at that time, because I did have a lot of pride in my knowledge of the Scriptures, etc. - and I did learn a lot in RCIA that I probably would not have, if I had been running off at the mouth, and driving the lessons off topic every week.

Yup, yup, yup, yup, yup. The first night when I went for my “intake interview”, I begged the RCIA guy not to make me go through RCIA. Whining like a fool. Only latterly did I whimper: “But I’ll do whatever it takes. I’ll do whatever it takes.”

That said, I think a lot of these guys have NO idea what kind of pain it can be for some of us to cross the Tiber. Or maybe they do, and they want to watch us suffer. Whatever. It was good for me to be put through all the paces and to WAIT for nearly a year for Confirmation. To some extent, I needed to prove to MYSELF that I could be patient, obedient, even humble (if I do say so myself).

 

[USMC]

I would find a different priest!!

Good answer

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

My husband is a Baptist and has been reading Catholic material and watching The Journey Home. He has seen a couple of times and I have as well, that when a potential convert has gone to visit with a priest, the priest has advised him/her that they should remain protestant and be a good protestant and that the priest should remain a good Catholic priest. This was mentioned in Scott Hahn’s conversion story as well as others. Why would a priest say this?

Perhaps because a priest who says it knows of people who are enthusiastic at the the notion of being received or of converting, whose enthusiasm has been built on a weak foundation. Euphoria is a useless basis for a change of one’s religious commitment - people need to count the cost. To receive them into the Church without further ado would be unspeakably foolish & harmful; it would be grossly irresponsible, & could be immensely damaging, because “no man is an island, complete of himself”.​

If people are going to take so great a step as this is, they have to do so with their eyes wide open, with a good idea of just what they are undertaking to do. Zeal & enthusiasm are not enough - there must also be knowledge & understanding, and a lot of prayer for these things. Otherwise, one is setting oneself up for a very nasty shock.

Conversion can be undertaken for bad reasons, or by people too immature in judgement to have a decent understanding of what they are doing; it can be a form of adolescent rebellion, or be undertaken for a hundred and one other bad reasons, such as dissatisfaction with one’s currebnt form of Christianity - contempt for one’s fellow-Protestants (say) is not the same as love for Catholics, or God, or Christ, or the CC. ##

 

[Milliardo]

Perhaps because a priest who says it knows of people who are enthusiastic at the the notion of being received or of converting, whose enthusiasm has been built on a weak foundation. Euphoria is a useless basis for a change of one’s religious commitment - people need to count the cost. To receive them into the Church without further ado would be unspeakably foolish & harmful; it would be grossly irresponsible, & could be immensely damaging, because “no man is an island, complete of himself”.​

If people are going to take so great a step as this is, they have to do so with their eyes wide open, with a good idea of just what they are undertaking to do. Zeal & enthusiasm are not enough - there must also be knowledge & understanding, and a lot of prayer for these things. Otherwise, one is setting oneself up for a very nasty shock. ##

It still wouldn’t do to turn them away; what would be better is to talk with the potential convert, studying how this initial enthusiasm could be built on. From there it wold be easy to see if it is indeed built on weak foundation, and what remedies could be made to solidify that foundation. No need to turn the convert away, but it would be better to welcome them with open arms and make them realize the beauty and truth of the Church.

 

[jmcrae]

This is somewhat off topic, but isn’t it common in Orthodox Judaism for a Rabbi to say no to a potential convert three times? I thought I remembered hearing that it was at least at one point.

I don’t know if that’s really true, but I do know that a long process of RCIA (18 months - 2 years) definitely weeds out the faint of heart. It’s better for them to quit while they’re still in RCIA than to lose steam after Initiation - the last thing we need is more disgruntled “ex-Catholics” out there - especially people who were only Catholic for about five minutes.

I think the longer process also allows that initial rush of convert euphoria to dissipate, and allows them to assess their own progress a lot more objectively.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

It still wouldn’t do to turn them away; what would be better is to talk with the potential convert, studying how this initial enthusiasm could be built on. From there it wold be easy to see if it is indeed built on weak foundation, and what remedies could be made to solidify that foundation. No need to turn the convert away, but it would be better to welcome them with open arms and make them realize the beauty and truth of the Church.

I was assuming that had been done - FWIW, it could be that the individual is going through a pro-Catholic craze; that’s not faith. The priest can’t give it, nor can the Church. An inquirer without faith cannot be received. And surely it does not follow that because someone enquires, they therefore have faith ? They might be enquiring for reasons which are not religious at all, or are even frankly bad. One cannot build up an instructed faith from the seed of it, if there is no seed to begin with.​

And it may not be the Will of God for that person to become a Catholic; or not then. One can perfectly well sin by doing what in principle is good - so one can sin by becoming Catholic; to become one, might not be right for that person at that time: if one’s parents forbid one to do, & and one ignores them that may (or may not) be a sin.

 

[kleary]

My husband is a Baptist and has been reading Catholic material and watching The Journey Home. He has seen a couple of times and I have as well, that when a potential convert has gone to visit with a priest, the priest has advised him/her that they should remain protestant and be a good protestant and that the priest should remain a good Catholic priest. This was mentioned in Scott Hahn’s conversion story as well as others. Why would a priest say this?

Maybe because they refuse to believe ALL things the Catholic Church requires them to believe in order to be Catholic. It is very much so way better for Protestants to remain Protestant if they refuse to believe 100 percent of what the Catholic Church requires someone to believe in order to be a Catholic.

Most likely Scott Hahn, at the time he was told this from a priest also did not believe some of the things the Catholic Church requires one to believe, such as the Immaculate Conception, Infallibility of the Roman Pontiff as decreed by Vatican I, Sacrificial nature of the Mass and other big hurdles a Protestant MUST overcome in order to become a Catholic.

I think that the BIG problem in the past 30 years is Protestants refusing to believe 100 percent of what the Catholic Church teaches
and still converting therefore resulting in a Protestant looking new liturgy and church buildings.

Ken