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maryj
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this also happened to my family when we attended Mass at the Basilica in Minneapolis, it was not Christmas though. I was very uneasy about this proceedure, and quite sad I must admit. I posted something on it here, but never got any responses. I assumed the bishop of that diocese had ok’d this but was never really able to find out why. We did kneel after Holy Communion. I thought about this for days afterwords. I felt very shameful, and I don’t think that there could be any logical reason for this, the Basilica in all it’s granduer was well equipted for thousands to kneel. Even if the Bishop for some reason had ok’d this, I still think that if the participants at those masses felt as "uncomfortable as I did, there is a reason for that. sorry no answer for you, but I don know how you felt.
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HFIPost
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Thank you for all your responses…I will continue to pray and I Itruly need to ask our priest…b/c he did this at Easter too and said we were being united in joy of the resurrection with other Catholics Rites who stand…which is true of the Byzantine Rite but that has always been their custom.
Personally I like the response of asking him if he telling me to go against the GIRM…sadly we have not had a bishop assigned to our Diocese here in Ohio, for nearly 2 years ! Please pray that Our Holy Father send us a Shepherd soon.
I am reminded of what St. Francis did with the priest in his area that was caught in adultery…when he met with him St. Francis kissed his hands b/c he brought him Christ in the Eucharist despite his sinfulness…the love converted this priest.
Personally I like the response of asking him if he telling me to go against the GIRM…sadly we have not had a bishop assigned to our Diocese here in Ohio, for nearly 2 years ! Please pray that Our Holy Father send us a Shepherd soon.
I am reminded of what St. Francis did with the priest in his area that was caught in adultery…when he met with him St. Francis kissed his hands b/c he brought him Christ in the Eucharist despite his sinfulness…the love converted this priest.
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Br.Rich_SFO
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It used to be, but at least for now, no person who has homosexual tendencies can be Ordained to the priesthood, or I believe admitted to the seminary.
This is because it has been found statistically that well over 95-98% of the priest abuse cases were homosexual in nature, not pedophilia.
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AlexV
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One of the reasons the liturgy has been destroyed has been a false sense of obedience.
“Father said to do it…so it must be okay, or right.”
“Father said we don’t do that anymore…so it must be okay, or right.”
If Father tells you to stand for the entire Canon, Father is wrong. He has no authority to do so, there is no little rubric that says, “Father may make things up as he pleases.” As for how long he studied “theology”, as Karianne raises…theology has nothing to do with this issue. Nothing. Sadly, most priests get a very poor education in liturgy.
Plus, it doesn’t take a graduate degree in liturgy…or theology…to know that we kneel for the Consecration, and that just because it’s Christmastime there is no difference in the usual practice.
Beware false obedience. It validates these inane, childish liturgical innovations and novelties.
If Father tells you to remain standing after the Sanctus…ignore him. As I said, he’ll get over himself, sooner rather than later.
As for finding out what his “good reason” was for telling people to remain standing…guess what, objectively speaking, there IS no good reason. We don’t need to negotiate and debate and reach consensus here with the inane “directive” of the priest. His interruption of Mass to give a silly directive was inappropriate, and it’s best left ignored.
“Father said to do it…so it must be okay, or right.”
“Father said we don’t do that anymore…so it must be okay, or right.”
If Father tells you to stand for the entire Canon, Father is wrong. He has no authority to do so, there is no little rubric that says, “Father may make things up as he pleases.” As for how long he studied “theology”, as Karianne raises…theology has nothing to do with this issue. Nothing. Sadly, most priests get a very poor education in liturgy.
Plus, it doesn’t take a graduate degree in liturgy…or theology…to know that we kneel for the Consecration, and that just because it’s Christmastime there is no difference in the usual practice.
Beware false obedience. It validates these inane, childish liturgical innovations and novelties.
If Father tells you to remain standing after the Sanctus…ignore him. As I said, he’ll get over himself, sooner rather than later.
As for finding out what his “good reason” was for telling people to remain standing…guess what, objectively speaking, there IS no good reason. We don’t need to negotiate and debate and reach consensus here with the inane “directive” of the priest. His interruption of Mass to give a silly directive was inappropriate, and it’s best left ignored.
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Karianne
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It’s too bad that you have no bishop to settle these issues, however, the actions of St Francis illustrate how there is a more important issue here.
Please let us know what the priest says in response to your question. It could be that he doesn’t realize that his directive was incorrect, or it could be that he’s correct and those people who malign him here are wrong, at any rate, quiet discussion with him will lead to greater understanding between the two of you, there’s no need for hysterics.
It’s getting harder and harder to be a priest these days. I know I couldn’t handle the job when I read some of the posts made by folks who profess to be Catholics.
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Karianne
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I’m going to pray for you. The tone of your post indicates that you, and perhaps the others on this thread have had some experience, real or imagined, that has made you very angry at priests in general. So much so that you won’t even give an unknown priest at an unknown church the benefit of the doubt.
Meanwhile, I’m going to say a prayer for the priests who have to put up with so much. I have always been fortunate to know priests who have been very kind and very understanding.
My best friend and I would drop in at the rectory when we were children just to say hello to our parish priests. No one ever molested us and the priests always made us feel welcome.
These men devote their lives to trying to serve people like you and me. They’re pretty smart so they could have chosen another way to make a living.
One that is MUCH easier, by the way.
When you are dying, and it will happen one day I bet that you’ll call for a priest, I hope that one comes to you.
Remember your words on that day.
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fcbv
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The priest made a mistake on saying that! Even in the Easter season, people who can kneel should do it, because it’s a sign of worship of the Mystery of the Consecration. Ignore the priest! He’s celebrating the Mass like he wants and not like the Ritual says, making a grave sin!
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AlexV
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Actually, a few of my closest personal friends happen to be priests. I had dinner with one of them on Friday, and will be spending New Year’s Day evening with another.
I have no “anger” towards priests, even those who perpetrate inanity and childishness in the liturgy. If anything, I grow increasingly amused by the clownish stunts some come up with to imprint the liturgy with their own personal ego trip.
All I counseled was…ignore the “directive”. I didn’t say confront him (usually does no good). If you want to write to the Bishop, go ahead…often does no good. My advice was ignore him with a clear conscience.
Because…guess what? He was wrong. There’s no “doubt” to give a benefit for. He was wrong. Objectively. We don’t stand for the entire Canon because it’s Christmas. What’s next…ringing little handbells to make sure angels get their wings (yes, I’ve seen it, at a Christmas Day Mass).
If you talk to this priest, you’re not going to get an education in how we are all wrong and the priest was right. Because you don’t have to be a priest to know the rubrics of the Roman Rite. And this priest who told people to remain standing was WRONG.
Your comment about hoping a priest comes on one’s Last Day is insulting and beyond comment…other than to say…we don’t “negotiate” with priests by saying, “Yes, I will obey everything you say, including the errors, all so you will condescend to visit me with the Last Sacraments.”
Such an attitude displays a very warped view of the Sacraments, and the Priesthood.
It’s very simple. If a priest tells you to do something that is in violation of the traditions of the Church and the rubrics of the liturgy, you ARE NOT OBLIGED to “obey” him.
I stand by my advice. Ignore his “directive”. Sooner rather than later, he’ll get over himself.
I have no “anger” towards priests, even those who perpetrate inanity and childishness in the liturgy. If anything, I grow increasingly amused by the clownish stunts some come up with to imprint the liturgy with their own personal ego trip.
All I counseled was…ignore the “directive”. I didn’t say confront him (usually does no good). If you want to write to the Bishop, go ahead…often does no good. My advice was ignore him with a clear conscience.
Because…guess what? He was wrong. There’s no “doubt” to give a benefit for. He was wrong. Objectively. We don’t stand for the entire Canon because it’s Christmas. What’s next…ringing little handbells to make sure angels get their wings (yes, I’ve seen it, at a Christmas Day Mass).
If you talk to this priest, you’re not going to get an education in how we are all wrong and the priest was right. Because you don’t have to be a priest to know the rubrics of the Roman Rite. And this priest who told people to remain standing was WRONG.
Your comment about hoping a priest comes on one’s Last Day is insulting and beyond comment…other than to say…we don’t “negotiate” with priests by saying, “Yes, I will obey everything you say, including the errors, all so you will condescend to visit me with the Last Sacraments.”
Such an attitude displays a very warped view of the Sacraments, and the Priesthood.
It’s very simple. If a priest tells you to do something that is in violation of the traditions of the Church and the rubrics of the liturgy, you ARE NOT OBLIGED to “obey” him.
I stand by my advice. Ignore his “directive”. Sooner rather than later, he’ll get over himself.
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sinner
Guest
I find that one of the greatest problems in properly interpreting liturgical law is that the laws are duly/unduly vague, allowing for too broad an interpretation. There always seems to be an “out” for liturgical abuses. (I suppose one could argue than an “out” precludes an abuse?) As an example,although not of a specific law, a dubium submitted to the Curia in Rome stated that pious people could kneel while everyone else stands. It also states that this an occasion for proper catechesis. BUT, what does the person in the pew do if the local Ordinary mandates otherwise? Do you obey your Bishop or defer to Rome? Pride no doubt rears its ugly head any time we are asked to change praxis. I look for the day when universal Norms are truly universal. Invite God into your New Year!
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Karianne
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I stand my post as well.
You have put words into my post that were not there, but I’m not surprised by that, nor am I angry about it.
Remember these words “the greatest of these is Charity”.
Look it up.
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AlexV
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It is false charity to say we should obey error.
If a priest interrupts the sacred liturgy…which is not HIS possession…to say we should do something contrary to tradition and rubric, charity does NOT compel us to obey his error.
In fact, it would be false charity that would prompt obedience to such an abuse.
The situation described was open and shut. There is no secret knowledge that this priest possessed about the liturgy. He abused the liturgy. We are not obliged to share in his abuse.
Period.
If a priest interrupts the sacred liturgy…which is not HIS possession…to say we should do something contrary to tradition and rubric, charity does NOT compel us to obey his error.
In fact, it would be false charity that would prompt obedience to such an abuse.
The situation described was open and shut. There is no secret knowledge that this priest possessed about the liturgy. He abused the liturgy. We are not obliged to share in his abuse.
Period.
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anamchara
Guest
Your welcome
I think it makes good common sense to go and talk to the Father about his decision and if he stands by it but it’s aganist the GIRM then gently let him know you and your family will continue to kneel as that is what you are suppose to do.Like Kariann, I would love to hear what this Priest has to say.
I’m sorry you do not have a Bishop, your diocese has my prayers my friend.
That story of St. Frances is beautiful btw, I feel strongly that kindness always converts the heart more than shoving dogma down peoples throats. Who knows maybe you can change the Father this way if he is wrong.
You have my prayers.
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Walking_Home
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Karin
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OutinChgoburbs
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I’d only add…document it, and if there’s no bishop, take it to the province (that’s the group of dioceses in your bigger area- easy to find on the Internet).
On the subject of verbally abused priests:
On the subject of verbally abused priests:
- Nobody said to read Father the riot act. From what I have read (all two pages), they are mostly saying to tell Father charitably GIRM says otherwise.
- And GIRM says kneel in the U.S. Who holds more authority, Father or the committee of bishops who wrote GIRM?
- Yes, GIRM is the final ruling on how to have the Mass function, along with the bishop where GIRM permits. That’s not often.
- If something is wrong, then it’s best to correct it before it gets out of hand. A certain priest I know asked some of his best parish financial supporters over and over again about coughing up more money. He did not realize he was hitting the same people at least 3 times in at least three campaigns within weeks of each campaign. If a person hadn’t said something to him, he would have continued to harrangue the folks already giving as much as they could- and a bunch of them were ready to go elsewhere.
- Why does one think CAF has mods?
- What makes one think he doesn’t read- and write- along? Haven’t you ever seen his posts in other threads?
- Perhaps some would be interested in doing research on GIRM, how to treat priests, and how to utilize conscience by reading the articles provided in This Rock, a publication of Catholic Answers. For those wanting first-run info, I suggest getting a subscription to this marvelous magazine.
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Karin
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