Priest using B.S word during confession

[water]

I wish we all had that, priest or not! Particularly if it could save me from saying things at work that I later regret.

Paul

So, Paul, why do you wish we can have a device to censor it (priest or not)?

 

[T700]

So, Paul, why do you wish we can have a device to censor it (priest or not)?

To prevent me from saying things like, “Sure boss, I can have that report by Tuesday,” when if I just thought about it, that will require me to give up sleeping and eating. I understand what you’re driving at, but foul language isn’t a problem with me.

Speaking of language, I’m guessing that what we have here is a “failure to communicate,” to steal a line from an old movie. No, I don’t think a priest should be using what is considered by most English speakers to be at best, substandard and at worst, offensive. Sadly, until the Pope approves the fully automated Priestbot 3000, I think we’re stuck with humans and with humans comes all manner of eccentricities and failings.

As for my recommendation for you to talk to the priest, bishop, or Pope, I’m sincere. You’re not going to accomplish anything discussing someone’s confession on the internet. If this is as big an issue as you make it out to be, then to protect other penitents from like outrage, I think you obligated to take action.

By the way, do you mind if I ask what your first name is? I don’t like arguing with someone whose name I don’t even know.

Paul

 

[water]

To prevent me from saying things like, “Sure boss, I can have that report by Tuesday,” when if I just thought about it, that will require me to give up sleeping and eating. I understand what you’re driving at, but foul language isn’t a problem with me.

Speaking of language, I’m guessing that what we have here is a “failure to communicate,” to steal a line from an old movie. No, I don’t think a priest should be using what is considered by most English speakers to be at best, substandard and at worst, offensive. Sadly, until the Pope approves the fully automated Priestbot 3000, I think we’re stuck with humans and with humans comes all manner of eccentricities and failings.

As for my recommendation for you to talk to the priest, bishop, or Pope, I’m sincere. You’re not going to accomplish anything discussing someone’s confession on the internet. If this is as big an issue as you make it out to be, then to protect other penitents from like outrage, I think you obligated to take action.

By the way, do you mind if I ask what your first name is? I don’t like arguing with someone whose name I don’t even know.

Paul

Thank you, you have answered my original question of this thread:

Do you think this is acceptable for any reason at all?"

I am not here to argue; I am here to discuss. So, no need to know my name.

 

[T700]

Thank you, you have answered my original question of this thread:

I am not here to argue; I am here to discuss. So, no need to know my name.

OK, no problem. Just seems like the anonymity of the internet makes acrimonious “discussions” more likely. By putting a name with the poster, civility is more likely to prevail–that’s why I sign my posts.

I think you seem like a Walter. For my peace of mind, I’ll call you that, unless you’d prefer me use another name.

Walter, I doubt many of us on this thread actually think it is a good thing for the priest to have done what your friend says he did. But now that I’ve answered your question, will you answer mine? What are you going to do about it?

Paul

 

[water]

OK, no problem. Just seems like the anonymity of the internet makes acrimonious “discussions” more likely. By putting a name with the poster, civility is more likely to prevail–that’s why I sign my posts.

I think you seem like a Walter. For my peace of mind, I’ll call you that, unless you’d prefer me use another name.

Walter, I doubt many of us on this thread actually think it is a good thing for the priest to have done what your friend says he did. But now that I’ve answered your question, will you answer mine? What are you going to do about it?

Paul

Walter sounds weird. but call it if you wish.
For your question, please read the entire thread – my answer is there when I was responding to others.

 

[Elizabeth502]

As to the courage to approach someone in authority…

(1) If it is done by anyone, it should be done by the particular penitent who heard the words! She can do it by naming the priest, if she wishes, or by complaining about “a priest” (that did so) to someone in higher authority. Having a third party “report” the reported incident is meaningless. The person in higher authority would have no reference points with which to take action. Nor could he address the named priest directly about the supposed incident, because then the confessor might have to reveal/admit contents of the confession by the mere fact that his superior asked him about a particular confession moment. They both know that is not going to happen, because of privacy. (The Seal)

(2) The options for the penitent are –
– if he truly acted like an insensitive jerk, in a way that obstructed the action of grace rather than promoted it, don’t confess to him again.
– she could have said something at the time, like, 'I would prefer you not use language like that; it does not help me be open with you. Are you saying you don’t believe me? Are you angry with me for my statement, my sin, (etc.)?"
By the way, if the guy’s “angry” about her sin, he is so out of bounds it’s not funny. God gets to be angry about the sin. He gets to guide toward proper, owned contrition & redirection. She has a right to require clarification of such expletives. He has a responsibility to satisfy that clarification.
– she could say something next time, if she chooses to have a next time with him. (“I hope that we can have a better conversation this time; the language you used last time upset me & distracted me from my penance & even my sorrow.”) Or she can say something at the end of the next confession. (“Thank you father; I feel better when you address me respectfully, rather than the way you did last time.”)
– she herself could go to a higher authority instead, & report the incident. Again, though, because of privacy issues it might be difficult for a superior to directly address a named priest, if she names him. (It would leave the confessor not in a position to defend, protest, or explain himself because then he would have to reveal even one tiny thing about the confession.) All the higher authority might be able to do is to report to the confessor that there was a complaint by someone, and to correct him in general.

 

[EasterJoy]

It wasn’t me in the confession, but not to say in detail…my friend is a girl and she thought she committed a sin for doing something that is not. The priest used the word “B.S” in stead of the word “No” to her question.

Imagine a priest say that during homily or consecration.

No matter how the situation is, priest should not use that word especially during a sacrament.

Is there any priest here using “BS” during confession here on CAF?

A) You’ve made your point clear, and some of us still disagree: You weren’t there. If someone told a priest in confession, “My catechism teacher told me such-and-so was a sin”, and the error needed to be condemned in no uncertain terms, then *in the privacy of the confessional in which the only person in earshot is totally capable of asking about his meaning *a priest might use scatalogical language, and yes, straight out of our Anglo-Saxon heritage. This is totally diffferent than changing the words of consecration (where did that analogy come from?). As for homilies…the setting gives less opportunity for clarification and feedback, so it is harder to imagine a time when similar language would be appropriate. Personally, I wouldn’t rule it out 100%, though, although I know that fewer Catholics would go so far. Even during homilies, there are times that call for a whip made of cords, when there are tables that have to be turned over…IMHO.

B) You don’t agree. That is fine! I mean it. This is a question where there is plenty of room for disagreement. If a priest uses that kind of language with you in the confessional, you should call him on it! Tell him you are scandalized, you feel accused for reporting to him what someone else told you, you whatever you need to say. If he does not see fit to accomodate you, find another confessor. You would be within your rights, and no quesitons asked. I’m sure there are many who agree with you, including many priests. It’s not your job to care whether any of the rest of us would be bothered by it.

C) As for your friend, do not encourage her to gossip about her confessor to you. Tell her to talk to the priest. If his answer does not satisfy her–it does not matter whether it satisfies anyone else or not–then let her find another confessor. If she is truly scandalized by the conduct of a priest in the confessional, even after talking to him about it, she should feel free to contact her local chancery office and ask to talk to the vicar of clergy. Unless she is a minor and you are her teacher or guardian, though, that is her call to make.

–As a final note, though: I don’t know which poster felt that this kind of language is OK for guys, but this isn’t something that should hinge on whether a penitent is male or female. Children should be assumed to be more innocent than adults, but it is a mistake to think that a man automatically has a greater tolerance for vulgar language than a woman. If a priest would not use particular language around women, he would do his male parishioners a favor to make the same assumption about all the adults in his parish.

 

[water]

C) As for your friend, do not encourage her to gossip about her confessor to you. Tell her to talk to the priest.

No, she doesn’t have that kind of heart to gossip. She came to me and asked if that is normal or O.K. for a priest to say such thing …not to gossip. It is perfectly fine for her to ask me that as I and she have walked together in our faith journey for the last 6 years.

If you read the entire thread, you will see my answer to her question.

 

[Elizabeth502]

As a final note, though: I don’t know which poster felt that this kind of language is OK for guys, but this isn’t something that should hinge on whether a penitent is male or female. Children should be assumed to be more innocent than adults, but it is a mistake to think that a man automatically has a greater tolerance for vulgar language than a woman. If a priest would not use particular language around women, he would do his male parishioners a favor to make the same assumption about all the adults in his parish.

Speaking of confession, let me own up to this. I meant it not in a sexist way. (And I agree with your point ) I meant that if the penitent himself/herself was using an earthy approach, it might continue the theme for the confessor to pick up on that, as a way into the mindset of the penitent, if he saw that that was the best way in this case to communicate effectively, rather than dancing around an honest response. Guys are not necessarily more vulgar, particularly during confession, but it is also true that guys often like to be direct and to be spoken to directly. (Again, I speak hypothetically, not of this particular case.) We have a lot of young men at my job. My male boss speaks to them very differently than he speaks to the females. It’s not always natural for me to be so blunt & direct, but sometimes I have to speak in a more direct & confrontational manner to the boys & men in order for them to really “hear” my message. I really can’t speak to them in the same way I speak to females & expect to have my message heard in the same way.

Hope that clarifies.

 

[EasterJoy]

Speaking of confession, let me own up to this. I meant it not in a sexist way. (And I agree with your point ) I meant that if the penitent himself/herself was using an earthy approach, it might continue the theme for the confessor to pick up on that, as a way into the mindset of the penitent, if he saw that that was the best way in this case to communicate effectively, rather than dancing around an honest response. Guys are not necessarily more vulgar, particularly during confession, but it is also true that guys often like to be direct and to be spoken to directly. (Again, I speak hypothetically, not of this particular case.) We have a lot of young men at my job. My male boss speaks to them very differently than he speaks to the females. It’s not always natural for me to be so blunt & direct, but sometimes I have to speak in a more direct & confrontational manner to the boys & men in order for them to really “hear” my message. I really can’t speak to them in the same way I speak to females & expect to have my message heard in the same way.

Hope that clarifies.

Exactly. It is a matter of speaking the same language…some speak an English dialect with a lot more Anglo-Saxon in it! In contrast to the not-so-distant past, the difference doesn’t necessarily split by gender.

There are guys who avoid vulgar language for all the right reasons. They need all the help they can get.

 

[water]

if he saw that that was the best way in this case to communicate effectively.

I believe that is what he thought otherwise he woudn’t have used the language. Unfortunately, the friend of mine, a young lady, left the confession with a confused heart.

 

[mark_a]

How can a priest know without a doubt, if someone is NOT truly contrite? I have always wondered that.

The priest can usually tell whether one is contrite or not by the excuse they make for committing the sin.

It must be terribly insulting to the priest.

 

[EasterJoy]

I believe that is what he thought otherwise he woudn’t have used the language. Unfortunately, the friend of mine, a young lady, left the confession with a confused heart.

I agree. IMHO, I think she would feel better if she went back to the priest and told him that this choice of language really bothered her, although of course that is her choice. That it bothered her is all that matters. If you gave her the sense that she would be doing both herself and the priest a favor by doing that, I think you would do her a good turn.

I should not have been so hard on her to say she was “gossiping” about her confessor. It is OK to share difficult truths when we need advice, when we’re unsure. Sometimes, we need a bit of support for our thinking, especially before we decide to speak up to those in authority. If that was her intention in telling you, then that was NOT gossiping. Since you went to others who could not possibly know the priest or the penitent, and since your intent was to gain perspective, rather than run down the priest, then this thread isn’t necessarily gossiping, either. It all depends on the goal of the conversation, and whether everything is done to get at the truth or to discern the best course of action, without besmirching anyone’s reputation.

PS She should be ready to explain the whole situation. There are some priests who are blessed with an ability to totally forget everything they hear in confession, and especially to whom they said what. They actually need to be brought up to speed about what was said.

 

[Elizabeth502]

The priest can usually tell whether one is contrite or not by the excuse they make for committing the sin.

It must be terribly insulting to the priest.

Um, let’s reword that, Mark:

The priest might be able to tell whether one is contrite **if **such person specifically made excuses for committing the sin, was vague about remorse, was unconvinced about the gravity of the sin. However, the priest’s duty, in that case, is to probe further, before assuming such lack of contrition.

It must be terribly insulting to God, not to the priest. (If/when excuses occur.) God has been transgressed, not the priest, unless the pentitent is confessing a personal offense against him. (“I lied about you,” “I stole something of yours,” etc.)

 

[RosalieM]

I haven’t read all the posts in this thread; however upon reading the OP’s first post, my first reaction was, “Wow, that priest must have been very angry!”

It could be he’s heard so many things that are just not true about the faith; or perhaps he just finished hearing the confession of someone with many grevious sins and your friend came in with a non-sin. Or maybe it was something so absurd the poor priest could not contain himself. :banghead:

 

[water]

I agree. IMHO, I think she would feel better if she went back to the priest and told him that this choice of language really bothered her, although of course that is her choice. That it bothered her is all that matters. If you gave her the sense that she would be doing both herself and the priest a favor by doing that, I think you would do her a good turn.

I told her to go back to ask him why he used the word and let him know that she was uncomfortable with that. If she doesn’t feel like doing it then get advice from another priest who is my Spiritual Director. Her intention was not to talk to authority at all.

I should not have been so hard on her to say she was “gossiping” about her confessor. It is OK to share difficult truths when we need advice, when we’re unsure. Sometimes, we need a bit of support for our thinking, especially before we decide to speak up to those in authority. If that was her intention in telling you, then that was NOT gossiping. Since you went to others who could not possibly know the priest or the penitent, and since your intent was to gain perspective, rather than run down the priest, then this thread isn’t necessarily gossiping, either. It all depends on the goal of the conversation, and whether everything is done to get at the truth or to discern the best course of action, without besmirching anyone’s reputation.

I came to the forum with the same purpose as she did to me. I never wanted to run down any priest, but some seem to misunderstand my intention here on CAF.

PS She should be ready to explain the whole situation. There are some priests who are blessed with an ability to totally forget everything they hear in confession, and especially to whom they said what. They actually need to be brought up to speed about what was said.

Yes, I remember that I told her to explain the whole thing if she decides to talk to him about it because the priest might not remember what they were talking about.

 

[EasterJoy]

I told her to go back to ask him why he used the word and let him know that she was uncomfortable with that. If she doesn’t feel like doing it then get advice from another priest who is my Spiritual Director. Her intention was not to talk to authority at all.

Just letting it drop and moving on is her option, too. I think you did well.

 

[water]

Just letting it drop and moving on is her option, too. I think you did well.

Thanks! I am also letting go of this thread as well. I didn’t expect this thread generated nearly 800 views and 6 pages.

Thanks for all answering to this thread.

 

[whatevergirl]

The priest can usually tell whether one is contrite or not by the excuse they make for committing the sin.

It must be terribly insulting to the priest.

But, typically, in times past when I have explained why I might have done something, a loving priest would usually help me to see why my logic for commiting a sin was flawed, and correct me. Not turn me away, and then I wouldn’t be able to receive Communion. The only time I can see that, is if someone tells the priest…that no, they don’t plan on changing the sin, but he/she is sorry just the same. It’s in trying to repent, not just admitting sorrow, that we are absolved. But, I think priests should offer some counsel to help someone break free from flawed logic and excuses. Jesus did that when He corrected people, such as the woman at the well.

 

[de_profundis]

Wow, hot topic.

I personally wouldn’t take any offense, and would be glad that my confessor takes the sincerity of my confession so seriously. On the other hand, he should have been more tactful and gauged whether or not she was a person that would be offended by such language.

My confessor has, more than once, instructed me to: “tell the devil to f*** off when he tempts you”, which took me aback, but English is his second language and I know that in his native language there are no words that are so offensive (the only ‘bad’ words they have involve God, or one’s mother ).