Priest using wrong altar cloths and vestment colors

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Metaron said:
It’s all fine for the Episcopalians to do as they will… but do you really want our Holy Catholic Church to copy them…?
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I can see an argument that to copy the Episcopalians could be an outrage, but I disagree with your contention that the Episcopalian actions being copied were themselves an outrage.
 
There are steps that you can take to remedy your parish’s issue. Basically, you have the right and the obligation to take this matter to your pastor and if that doesn’t work then you can take it to your bishop and if that doesn’t work then you can continue to take it higher. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of a priest named Fr. Corapi, who is frequently presented on EWTN giving many lovely speeches on faith. I’ve gone to one of his lectures where he talked about an elderly woman who discovered that the host was not properly consecrated because it was Betty Crocker bread, which is not the simple wheat and water recipe that is called for. This woman brought her issue to the priest who did nothing so she took it up to the bishop where she camped out in front of his home until he would listen to her. When the unconsecrated host was not being taken care of she decided to take it straight to the Pope himself, which she has every right to do. The woman had her plane ticket, appointment, and letter of the issue in hand…she wanted a legitimate host and was willing to do whatever she had to in order to get it. The bishop made sure the issue was taken care of before she got onto that plane. The point is she knew what she had to do and thankfully it was taken care of before she had to get on a plane.
You have every right to do the exact same thing. There need not be anything vicious or vindictive about what you’re going to do, but you have a right to have a legitimate Mass and your priest has the obligation to give that to you. However far you are willing to take it just know that God is with you and your community of friends would be grateful for your help (they’re feeling the same way you are so maybe they can help you).
God bless you for recognizing that something is amiss and for having the willingness to take action.

Alayna
 
I’ve read that blue can be used for the Immaculate Conception (not sure about the 2nd week of Advent). The Lutheran church I used to go to had a blue altar cloth that same week, too, then switched back to dark blue/“almost purple”). 🤷 Now, the parish I go to, there’s no mistaking the purplenessish of the altar cloth! 👍
 
Jennifer_G said:
I’ve read that blue can be used for the Immaculate Conception
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In the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church in the United States (which is what most of us are dealing with) there must be an indult (special permission) to use blue. I believe it is known as the “Spanish Indult”. Otherwise, vestments must be white for the Immaculate Conception.

If you don’t know whether your church has an indult to use blue vestments, then it most likely doesn’t. :cool:
 
Digitonomy said:
I can see an argument that to copy the Episcopalians could be an outrage, but I disagree with your contention that the Episcopalian actions being copied were themselves an outrage.
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I agree with you. Espiscopalians are certainly free to choose the liturgical colors they would like, and often their services are quite stirringly beautiful. I think Marian blue and oxblood red would be lovely.

The problem, of course, arises when Catholic priests (or “liturgical committees”) adopt colors that aren’t approved for the Latin Rite in the United States.

I think it was St. Benedict who said that obedience was the hardest virtue to acquire …
 
a lighter blue can be uses for the feast of the Immaculate Conception of other feasts of Mary (Mother of God on January 1st of Assumpton on August 15th). Purple should be used during Advent. My parish uses blue altar cloth and blue vestments, but I always thought they should be purple during Advent and Lent.
 
My parish is using an alter cloth that looks (from a distance) like dark blue denim (really!) … but it has purple panels and gold embellishments, on either side. The vestments match the alter cloth. Just thought I’d put my 2 cents in.
 
marleelynn said:
a lighter blue can be uses for the feast of the Immaculate Conception of other feasts of Mary (Mother of God on January 1st of Assumpton on August 15th).
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Not in the US. Blue is not approved here for any days.
 
I meant white vestments for the Marian feast with a form of blue in it.
 
In our parish we have done two things to remedy this situation. I organized a fundraiser specifically for altar cloths. We raised over $500.00 to purchase new ones. Also, I found out the date that our pastor’s anniversary to the priesthood fell on. I organized a party to celebrate it. Sent out invitations to all parishioners, asked a bishop to come and celebrate his anniversary, had a guest homilist and we did up a big pot-luck dinner afterwards. For five months leading up to the anniversary party I contacted an older woman whom I heard sewed vestaments. Beautiful, traditional vestaments. We picked out beautiful fabrics with a traditional cross in the weave and we worked on it for months leading up to the anniversary party. It took many visits to her house to cut and sew the vestament. We also made a stole to match. It turned out just beautiful. Then at the anniversary party we had it on a display hanger and presented it to him. He now has a beautiful vestament to wear. I had people donate to cover the cost of fabric. I also gave a gift to the woman who did most of the work. This vestament is very different from the style he has always worn. Our pastor likes vestaments that aren’t traditional in their style but he does wears this new one. It is absolutely beautiful. Similar to the styles you see the Holy Father wearing.

We did this in a positive light but didn’t complain to him about the vestaments that he does wear.

There is a school in Kentucky that has a pattern for vestaments in their senior sewing curriculum. You can order it from Our Lady of the Rosary school in Kentucky, it you google it. Hope this helps. LF
 
How many times have I heard this problem???

I own a small vestment company and this is an un-ending battle. No, blue is NOT acceptable in the U.S.

Several years ago, a small group tried to push it through and were told emphatically “NO” by the USCCB. They wouldn’t even petition Rome for consideration.

ALSO, there is no such this as “Advent Violet” and “Lenten Violet”. The color is simply violet. There are many shades of violet and some parishes/priests may find it easier to designate different shades for the different seasons…but again, the is no such thing as Advent or Lenten Violet.

As far as changing what your parish is using…I agree, there are many far more economical alternatives (as opposed to $3000) and if you go with the “sweetest older lady of the parish” advice - you can’t offend! Making a “gift” of something is never out of style!
 
I have heard that if vestments of the proper color or number are not available, then white may always be used as a substitute.

Now I just want to see black used in Funerals and All Souls Day, like you are supposed to (although white is allowed, as well.)
 
Digitonomy said:
Yes. I don’t think Volodymyr 988 was claiming it was taken during Advent, merely that it was taken during an occasion for which blue is not an approved color.
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The rest of my post has a link showing that in the Iberian Peninsula Blue is allowed as a Liturgical color.
 
I would rather see WHITE when it’s supposed to be white and not OFF-WHITE!
 
DO ALTAR COLORS REALLY MATTER?
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 I guess I'm out of step, but I find concern over altar colors #722on my list of priorities. I confess to becoming annoyed when clergy or laity make a big deal out of colors, vestments, and such incidentals. Did Jesus ever provide instructions about these things? I have the impression that they were of little concern to him. He denounced the religious establishment at the time for just such emphasis. 

  Okay, so have the right color and wear the right vestment if not a problem, but don't make a big deal about such trivial things. Millions go hungry, millions more are poorly dressed, millions have shacks as homes - and we worry about proper colors, fancy vestments, and beautiful sanctuaries. What is wrong with this picture?
 
But if we do not give God the proper respect that is required of us then how can we hope to be respectful in other aspects of our lives. Such as feeding the hungry, giving alms to the poor, forgiving one another. It’s the small things that we pay attention to that give proof we will do the right thing when it comes to the big problems in life. For example, if a person will tell a white lie and not think it a big deal, then what’s to say they will not cross the line that continues to get redrawn and tell big, destructive lies. It’s the small details that we must respect and pay attention to because it shows to our character of how we will react when the “big deals” come about.
 
Langel said:
But if we do not give God the proper respect that is required of us then how can we hope to be respectful in other aspects of our lives.
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 What have colors on the altar and vestments to do with giving God proper respect? That can be a serious fault of 'religion'. Where in the prophets do we read that God doesn't give a hoot about our elaborate ceremonies, "but let justice roll down like waters and righteousness as a mighty stream!"?

  It's true that in the Old Testament there are all sorts of instructions about Temple worship. But Jesus was mute on the subject except for his denunciations of Pharisees and Saduccees who insisted on ritualistic details.

  Frankly, I've come to the point where I'd rather spend an hour in a simple Quaker meetinghouse than in a gilded church sanctuary, with all of its images and stained glass, where pious ritual is paramount. There is something blasphemous about repetitive, ornate and formalized liturgy.
 
But who is more deserving of all of those ornate decorations giving homage than the Almighty Himself.
 
This thread has gone off topic. Please take any side issues to new or existing threads. Remember each thread is for those who wish to post about the original topic. I will have to close the thread if it doesn’t get back on track.
 
Roy5 said:
What have colors on the altar and vestments to do with giving God proper respect?
…
Frankly, I’ve come to the point where I’d rather spend an hour in a simple Quaker meetinghouse than in a gilded church sanctuary, with all of its images and stained glass, where pious ritual is paramount. There is something blasphemous about repetitive, ornate and formalized liturgy.
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Using the proper colors is respectful to God by virtue of obedience.

As a Protestant, as your profile indicates, you are perfectly free to worship in a Quaker meetinghouse and to spurn Catholic worship. If you ever do become Catholic, I hope you understand that the sacrifice of our own will to obedience is one of the most pleasing offerings we can make to God.

Sadly, there are parishes and priests who “know better than the Church” who place their own preferences and conclusions above the norms laid down by Church law. The beauty or aptness of blue vestments during Advent are negated by the disobedience.
I agree with those who advise taking positive action to remedy such a situation - donating or raising money for proper liturgical appointments rather than simply complaining.

Betsy
 
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