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Love_God_Too
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I apologize for spelling canon wrong. That is really not my area of expertise. I’m just a Catholic that Loves God Too…
Priest who denied Holy Communion to lesbian placed on leave [CWN]
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Elizabeth502
Guest
Friend, it appears that you and I both have gone on tangents.
I do not believe that homosexual celibate priests is the thread topic. My own reference, earlier, was not to same-sex-atttracted men who have a genuine calling to the priesthood, but rather to those in and outside of the Church who campaign for a non-celibate homosexual lifestyle in the priesthood, and who use sensational stories in the press (including confrontational events that occur in church settings, such as this thread’s story) as a springboard to refresh those campaigns. (Completely different effort, naturally!)
Glad to clarify for you
As to canon law, that is not the same thing as absolute moral law on which Catholic moral theology is based and which does not change. Canon law is jurisdictional and applies only to the universal Church proper; as NewEnglandPriest pointed out, that does not intersect with U.S. civil, constitutional, or criminal law.
A footnote about moral law: One would think, reading CAF
, that moral law is restricted to matters below the navel, but naturally it involves far more than sexuality, which is just one aspect of it. Moral law derives from an ordered universe ordained by God, transparent in Scripture, and expounded in sacred tradition.Welcome to CAF.
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NewEnglandPriest
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- No one has said canon law isn’t written by “flawed men.” No one has claimed its infallible.
- I do not believe it is a “semantic difference” since canon law as we understand it today simply did not exist at the time of the Inquisitions. The idea of a unified set of laws compiled and enumerated for the universal Church that applied everywhere would have been foreign to them at that time. In those days Church laws differed from country to country, weren’t compiled, were just declared ad hoc, sometimes contradicted each other, didn’t have commentary, etc. Its apples and oranges.
Canon law isn’t Scripture.
Canon law as we know it today is a legal system comparable to any civil legal system around the world. There’s areas of “interpretation” and there’s areas of “settled law.” Ultimately there’s a court that enforces it and a legislator who defines it.
Yes, canon law has evolved over the centuries until it reached its modern form in 1917.
Huh? Who’s dismissing views and actions of the early Church? I simply stated that the Canon Law system we know today would be a foreign concept 700 years ago.
Um, ok. What does this have to do with anything in this thread?
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
This is all quite off topic of the thread so let’s just leave it we’ll agree to disagree.
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Love_God_Too
Guest
I hope I didn’t offend you, it certainly was not my intent. If i did, I sincerely apologize. As for being on topic, I believe what I wrote about is at the heart of this topic. I just could not imagine a priest in my lifetime making his own judgment, at the communion rail, so to speak, to refuse the Sacrament to anyone. I never saw that in my lifetime. That is until the country turned into this left is bad and right is good thing.
I feel it is particularly disingenuous in light of the important, ordained by God, work that homosexual priest have done in our Church today and for generations gone by. We are ever evolving and learning creations of God. He gave us the gift of thought and reason to use it, not to hide from the obvious related contradictions here.
Again I apologize if offended you, it’s not my style.
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The_Curt_Jester
Guest
Love God Too, I don’t think we can compare what this priest did to torture. That may be stretching the situation a liiiiiiiiittle far. Plus, the inquisition is a whole different topic.
In regard to the main subject, here’s an interesting article on Rorate Caeli.
A Canonical Contribution on the Washington Eucharistic Affair.
In regard to the main subject, here’s an interesting article on Rorate Caeli.
A Canonical Contribution on the Washington Eucharistic Affair.
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Love_God_Too
Guest
It was not my intent to compare the inquisition to the priest’s refusal of the sacrament. I referred to that to illustrate that the Church has evolved in it’s thinking and actions over the years.
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Love_God_Too
Guest
As for the canonical stuff, I’m in advertising. I haven’t the slightest skill set to be an effective advocate on any side of a canonical debate.
But who said you do not need to be a weatherman to know if it’s raining or not?
But who said you do not need to be a weatherman to know if it’s raining or not?
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peccant
Guest
Two things to consider: after she was denied the Eucharist by the priest, she walked around the to other side and received the Blessed Sacrament from a Eucharistic Minister.
Also, what sort of person would choose her own mother’s funeral as a venue to express her rage against a priest in particular, and Holy Mother Church in general?
May God ease the pain in her tormented soul…
Also, what sort of person would choose her own mother’s funeral as a venue to express her rage against a priest in particular, and Holy Mother Church in general?
May God ease the pain in her tormented soul…
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InSearchofGrace
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Ender
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That’s a very interesting article; thank you for posting it. I was especially struck by this comment:
Have we today lost the sense of the seriousness of the sin of sacrilege and scandal? Upon the altar of the rights of the individual, have we sacrificed God’s right not to be profaned and the right of the community not to be scandalized? We need to respect the conscience of the minister bound by such serious obligations just as much as we need to respect the right of the individual to be provided with the sacraments. Have we focused on the latter to the exclusion of the former—unwittingly embracing an unbalanced hermeneutic that distorts our reading of canon law and the sacramental life of the Church?
Regarding the question highlighted above, I’m thinking the answer is yes.
Ender
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The_Curt_Jester
Guest
You’re welcome. And I’d have to agree with your own answer to that question.
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Catherine_S
Guest
More of the same type of refusal by Catholics who do not accept nor* follow** Church teaching! *
.
Archdiocese of Vienna* supports priest who drew the line* on** homosexual** parish council members…
Stangl told reporters that he made a point of living his homosexual relationship publicly in his small town. “After we* closed our partnership** before the** authorities**, we invited more than half the town to our home for a** feast**,” he said. *
Parishioners who voted for the openly homosexual young man say* they are ready** to fight for their election choice. Some parishioners have told reporters that** if their choice** of Stangl is not honored, then they are prepared to** provoke** an uprising. ***
Stangl is already using* the** discrimination tactic** with the Austrian public to** gain** their empathy and support. He nows says he feels “discriminated against” since Father Swierzek has asked him to refrain from receiving communion. “The priest has asked me not to go to communion. He said that he would not deny me, but he asked me not to.”*
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archdiocese-of-vienna-supports-priest-who-drew-the-line-on-homosexual-paris?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=fc65cf6b50-LifeSiteNews_com_Canada_Headlines_03_23_2012&utm_medium=email
.
Archdiocese of Vienna* supports priest who drew the line* on** homosexual** parish council members…
Stangl told reporters that he made a point of living his homosexual relationship publicly in his small town. “After we* closed our partnership** before the** authorities**, we invited more than half the town to our home for a** feast**,” he said. *
Parishioners who voted for the openly homosexual young man say* they are ready** to fight for their election choice. Some parishioners have told reporters that** if their choice** of Stangl is not honored, then they are prepared to** provoke** an uprising. ***
Stangl is already using* the** discrimination tactic** with the Austrian public to** gain** their empathy and support. He nows says he feels “discriminated against” since Father Swierzek has asked him to refrain from receiving communion. “The priest has asked me not to go to communion. He said that he would not deny me, but he asked me not to.”*
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archdiocese-of-vienna-supports-priest-who-drew-the-line-on-homosexual-paris?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=fc65cf6b50-LifeSiteNews_com_Canada_Headlines_03_23_2012&utm_medium=email
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Catherine_S
Guest
More of the same type of refusal by Catholics who do not accept nor* follow** Church teaching!
.*
Archdiocese of Vienna* supports priest who drew the line* on** homosexual** parish council members…
Stangl told reporters that he made a point of living his homosexual relationship publicly in his small town. “After we* closed our partnership** before the** authorities**, we invited more than half the town to our home for a** feast**,” he said. *
Parishioners who voted for the openly homosexual young man say* they are ready** to fight for their election choice. Some parishioners have told reporters that** if their choice** of Stangl is not honored, then they are prepared to** provoke** an uprising. ***
Stangl is already using* the** discrimination tactic** with the Austrian public to** gain** their empathy and support. He nows says he feels “discriminated against” since Father Swierzek has asked him to refrain from receiving communion. “The priest has asked me not to go to communion. He said that he would not deny me, but he asked me not to.”*
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archdiocese-of-vienna-supports-priest-who-drew-the-line-on-homosexual-paris?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com+Daily+ Newsletter&utm_campaign=fc65cf6b50-LifeSiteNews_com_Canada_Headlines_03_23_ 2012&utm_medium=email
.*
Archdiocese of Vienna* supports priest who drew the line* on** homosexual** parish council members…
Stangl told reporters that he made a point of living his homosexual relationship publicly in his small town. “After we* closed our partnership** before the** authorities**, we invited more than half the town to our home for a** feast**,” he said. *
Parishioners who voted for the openly homosexual young man say* they are ready** to fight for their election choice. Some parishioners have told reporters that** if their choice** of Stangl is not honored, then they are prepared to** provoke** an uprising. ***
Stangl is already using* the** discrimination tactic** with the Austrian public to** gain** their empathy and support. He nows says he feels “discriminated against” since Father Swierzek has asked him to refrain from receiving communion. “The priest has asked me not to go to communion. He said that he would not deny me, but he asked me not to.”*
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archdiocese-of-vienna-supports-priest-who-drew-the-line-on-homosexual-paris?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com+Daily+ Newsletter&utm_campaign=fc65cf6b50-LifeSiteNews_com_Canada_Headlines_03_23_ 2012&utm_medium=email
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Catherine_S
Guest
It is surely beginning to look that way!!
This is more of the same type of refusal by Catholics who will not accept nor follow Church teaching! *
.
Archdiocese of Vienna supports priest who drew the line* on** homosexual** parish council members…
Stangl told reporters that he made a point of living his homosexual relationship publicly in his small town. “After we* closed our partnership** before the** authorities**, we invited more than half the town to our home for a** feast**,” he said. *
Parishioners who voted for the openly homosexual young man say* they are ready** to fight for their election choice. Some parishioners have told reporters that** if their choice** of Stangl is not honored, then they are prepared to** provoke** an uprising. ***
Stangl is already using* the** discrimination tactic** with the Austrian public to** gain** their empathy and support. He nows says he feels “discriminated against” since Father Swierzek has asked him to refrain from receiving communion. “The priest has asked me not to go to communion. He said that he would not deny me, but he asked me not to.”*
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archdiocese-of-vienna-supports-priest-who-drew-the-line-on-homosexual-paris?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com+Daily+ Newsletter&utm_campaign=fc65cf6b50-LifeSiteNews_com_Canada_Headlines_03_23_ 2012&utm_medium=email
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GraceSofia
Guest
But the response of the archdiocese was not the same type, fortunately.
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Not_Sure_1
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
Highlighting a few things from this post. A bit OT. My take is that the expectation for a faithful Catholic is to come forward as a servant of the church and to contribute labor and support. That is in the precepts of the Church. No where does it say we should expect to be thanked for this, made to feel special, or recognized in any way as being out of the ordinary.
In fact, as those who are more blessed, we should be eager to help those Catholics in other parts of the world who are not, and happy that the Church’s (Vatican’s) attention is on them in their need.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
And absolutely nowhere in my postings is there the slightest implication that Catholics who want to serve and who do now already serve
Nevertheless, the reality of involving people effectively – whether its on the secular level in volunteer organizations or in the religious realm via the laity – is that outreach encourages involvement. It’s strictly a practical matter and nothing else. Those of us who give regularly to causes both religious and non-religious, as well as give because our professions are those of service --not of acquisition-- don’t need ‘instruction’ in the value of giving.
And there’s a two-way street that is the benefit: American Catholics who are not ignored are much more likely to deepen their fidelity to Church teaching than to remain ‘on the margins’ in terms of belief and practice. This is part of what underlies the ‘homecoming’ movements (locally and internationally) in the Church.
Thanks for giving me an opportunity to correct an assumption which was never articulated or implied by me in the first place.
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
I was using your post as a spring board. No need to be defensive.Thanks for giving me an opportunity to correct an assumption which was never articulated or implied by me in the first place.
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