Z
ziapueblo
Guest
Byzantine Catholics I am close to see themselves as Orthodox and are in parishes where the Pope of Rome is of no concern of theirs. They have a Patriarch and they go about their spiritual lives.
ZP
Priesthood and celibacy question for my fellow Easterners (and Latin brethren as well 😊)
- Status
ZP
D
dvdjs
Guest
How does any of that address anything that I posted? Have their particular churches glorified Fr. Alexis.? Have their Patriarchs discussed this glorification? Do they recognized the same attributes as the OCA?
Last edited:
Z
ziapueblo
Guest
It’s a private devotion for them.
ZP
ZP
D
dvdjs
Guest
Z
ziapueblo
Guest
Don’t know. Maybe? I know a Romanian Greek Catholic monk here in the US that has a great affinity towards him.
I don’t think their Patriarch would care. Especially Patriarchs that see their Churches as Orthodox.
Maybe, maybe not. I would guess most do (at least the ones I know).
The Pope seems to have everything to do with the Catholic Church on every issue.
ZP
W
Wandile
Guest
Our Lady spoke to St. Bridget a divine warning that seems to be a message directly from Heaven to a future pontiff:
“Know this too: that if some Pope concedes to priests a license to contract carnal marriage, God will condemn him to a sentence as great, in a spiritual way, as that which the law justly inflicts in a corporeal way on a man who has transgressed so gravely that he must have his eyes gouged out, his tongue and lips, nose and ears cut off, his hands and feet amputated, all his body’s blood spilled out to grow completely cold, and finally, his whole bloodless corpse cast out to be devoured by dogs and other wild beasts[.] … For that same pope would be totally deprived by God of his spiritual sight and hearing, and of his spiritual words and deeds. All his spiritual wisdom would grow completely cold; and finally, after his death, his soul would be cast out to be tortured eternally in hell so that there it might become the food of demons everlastingly and without end.”
Our Lady told the Saint even Pope St. Gregory the Great would never have become a Saint, and in fact would have ended up losing his soul, if he was the one to overturn Celibacy.“:
“Yes, even if Saint Gregory the Pope had made this statute, in the aforesaid sentence he would never have obtained mercy from God if he had not humbly revoked his statute before his death” ( Revelations of St. Bridget , Book VII, Chapter 10).
“Know this too: that if some Pope concedes to priests a license to contract carnal marriage, God will condemn him to a sentence as great, in a spiritual way, as that which the law justly inflicts in a corporeal way on a man who has transgressed so gravely that he must have his eyes gouged out, his tongue and lips, nose and ears cut off, his hands and feet amputated, all his body’s blood spilled out to grow completely cold, and finally, his whole bloodless corpse cast out to be devoured by dogs and other wild beasts[.] … For that same pope would be totally deprived by God of his spiritual sight and hearing, and of his spiritual words and deeds. All his spiritual wisdom would grow completely cold; and finally, after his death, his soul would be cast out to be tortured eternally in hell so that there it might become the food of demons everlastingly and without end.”
Our Lady told the Saint even Pope St. Gregory the Great would never have become a Saint, and in fact would have ended up losing his soul, if he was the one to overturn Celibacy.“:
“Yes, even if Saint Gregory the Pope had made this statute, in the aforesaid sentence he would never have obtained mercy from God if he had not humbly revoked his statute before his death” ( Revelations of St. Bridget , Book VII, Chapter 10).
Last edited:
P
Phillip_Rolfes
Guest
First of all, that’s private revelation. Not binding on anyone.
Secondly, Our Lady is talking about a pope allowing priests (as in, already ordained) to contract a marriage. This is very different from the Eastern tradition (and proposed Latin option) of ordaining men who are already married to the ministerial priesthood.
Secondly, Our Lady is talking about a pope allowing priests (as in, already ordained) to contract a marriage. This is very different from the Eastern tradition (and proposed Latin option) of ordaining men who are already married to the ministerial priesthood.
A
AlNg
Guest
That is a rather severe punishment. Does that apply to a Pope who has allowed a married Anglican priest to be ordained as a Roman Catholic priest?
W
Wandile
Guest
Nor did I claim it related to that. I posted it because it’s clear the will in the latin church to allow married men to the priesthood is aimed at allowing clergy to marry which will come in time if we allow (wholesale) married men to the clergy. The inspiration for the push for married clergy is very much modernism and not anything holy.
Once they get clergy to marry, they will push for gay clergy. Then push for recognition of gay marriage (they have already started) and then gay married priests which is the ultimate goal.
Last edited:
W
Wandile
Guest
The prophecy speaks of priests being allowed to marry not married men becoming priests.Wandile:
That is a rather severe punishment. Does that apply to a Pope who has allowed a married Anglican priest to be ordained as a Roman Catholic priest?
A
AlNg
Guest
Priests and even bishops were allowed to marry in the early church, no? Were the Popes who allowed this subject to these horrific punishments of demons torturing them and eating them in hell?
W
Wandile
Guest
No they weren’t. The earliest councils and fathers testify that clergy could not marry and if married prior to ordination, had to be continent after ordination. Although this wasn’t always faithfuly enforced.Wandile:
Priests and even bishops were allowed to marry in the early church, no? Were the Popes who allowed this subject to these horrific punishments of demons torturing them and eating them in hell?
Bishop Genethlius, according to the Council of Carthage (A.D. 390), says:
“As was previously said, it is fitting that the holy bishops and priests of God as well as the Levites [meaning, Deacons]; i.e., those who are in the service of the divine sacraments, observe perfect continence, so that they may obtain in all simplicity what they are asking from God ; what the apostles taught and what antiquity itself observed, let us also endeavor to keep.”
Several years prior, we have Canon 29 of the First Council of Arles (314):
”Moreover, concerned with what is worthy, pure, and honest, we exhort our brothers in the episcopate to make sure that priests and deacons have no [sexual] relations with their wives, since they are serving the ministry everyday. Whoever will act against this decision will be deposed from the honor of the clergy.”
In the Council of Elvira, (309), Canon 33 reads:
“It has seemed good to absolutely forbid the bishops, the priests, and the deacons, i.e., all the clerics in the service of the sacred ministry, to have relations with their wives and procreate children; should anyone do so, let him be excluded from the honor of the clergy.“
Thus, St. Epiphanius, praising the strict observance of this canonical rule, says:
“Holy Church respects the dignity of the priesthood to such a point that she does not admit to the deaconate, the priesthood or the episcopate, nor even to the subdeaconate, anyone still living in marriage and begetting children. She accepts only him who if married gives up his wife or has lost her by death, especially in those places where the ecclesiastical canons are strictly attended to.”
St. Jerome says in his Letter to Pammachius:
“Those persons who are chosen to be bishops, priests, and deacons are either virgins or widowers; or at least when once they have received the priesthood, are vowed to perpetual chastity.”
Last edited:
P
Phillip_Rolfes
Guest
I don’t think it’s clear that the Latin Church is headed in the direction of allowing clergy to get married. I’ve never seen anyone even hint at that…???
If you can provide a source for this speculation I’d be grateful.
If you can provide a source for this speculation I’d be grateful.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Um, that’s a major reason why everybody is waiting with bated breath to see what Pope Francis writes for the Amazon synod apostolic exhortation.
They’re scared to death he’s going to open the door to married male priests (there’s allegedly a push from Germany to do this) and female deacons.
In fact many people think that was the whole point of the Amazon synod, that it had very little to do with stuff going on in the Amazon. They think the whole business was just a sneaky way to promote married and female clergy.
I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that’s also why Cardinal Sarah’s book just happened to come out right now.
Last edited:
P
Phillip_Rolfes
Guest
The only speculations I’ve heard is the possibility of Pope Francis allowing married men to become priests. I’ve heard nothing of a push for him to allow priests to get married (which is what the poster I was responding to mentioned [unless I misunderstood him])…
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Presumably he would make them marry prior to ordination if they were going to do it at all. As is currently done with married Latin Rite deacons - if they have a wife already they can be ordained, but if their wife dies they cannot remarry, usually. I think there is a rare exception that may be granted in cases where the deacon has young children who might need a mom.
That may take care of the issue vis a vis St. Bridget’s private revelation, but most Catholics who oppose married priests do not see a distinction.
That may take care of the issue vis a vis St. Bridget’s private revelation, but most Catholics who oppose married priests do not see a distinction.
Last edited:
W
Wandile
Guest
There has been a general push amongst the progressives to get priests to marry for decades. This is just the beginning of it. Getting married men in the door is the first step because if we normalize seeing a married priest, why not let father so and so who was ordained before the change in discipline be allowed to take a wife? Boom now logically even priests should be allowed to marry then.
Last edited:
P
Phillip_Rolfes
Guest
To allow for priests to marry, or to allow married men to become priests. There’s a HUGE difference. Again, I’ve never heard of, nor seen evidence of, a push to opening the door to allowing priests to marry. Can you provide an article or something that I can read on this topic?
Last edited:
A
Agathon77
Guest
To answer your question, @ziapueblo:
The rules of priestly celibacy is just a matter of discipline; not revelation. I think the Holy Fathers of the past simply chose a safer course to have celibate clergy so they can fully devote themselves to their pastoral work.
As for the “ pastoral catastrophe “: I’m not sure if it would be a catastrophe. You Easterners have done it effectively for centuries. If we do it for that reason, not just caving to modernist pressures; I’d see no problem with it.
The rules of priestly celibacy is just a matter of discipline; not revelation. I think the Holy Fathers of the past simply chose a safer course to have celibate clergy so they can fully devote themselves to their pastoral work.
As for the “ pastoral catastrophe “: I’m not sure if it would be a catastrophe. You Easterners have done it effectively for centuries. If we do it for that reason, not just caving to modernist pressures; I’d see no problem with it.
W
Wandile
Guest
I know and what I said above still stands perfectly.
Last edited:
- Status