Priestly Celibacy falsely justified by the Church?

[Presence]

If I remember my Church history correctly, the rule was instituted during the First Crusade, when local priests objected to whipping up the faithful for a holy war that had more to do with sending troublemaking nobles elsewhere than anything having to do with Jesus. In other words, think of what0 the Middle East has been going through in the past few decades; that was Christendom back then, with troublemakers being exported to do their thing in other lands in the name of God. The Pope declared that priests’ first duty was to the Church and to the Pope, and that if families got in the way of a good Crusade then priests wouldn’t be able to have families. The whole “Jesus was single and so you need to be too” thing was slapped on as justification (and there are suspicions in some circles that the Bible may have been edited to reflect this idea). Before this time, the only ones who were expected to be celibate were the ascetics. To my knowledge, there was never an invocation of Papal infallibility on this issue, and it has always been enforced as a matter of discipline rather than theology.

This person is commenting on the reason for priestly celibacy in the Church in the most tactful manner they can manage I presume. I was wondering if I could have some more enlightened Catholics respond to some of the things mentioned in the quote above. I’m especially curious about what they said concerning that the bible may have been edited to justify priestly celibacy?

 

[TimothyH]

I’m celibate and I’m not ascetic, nor am I priest.

The “Bible may have been edited” comment is a loophole big enough to drive the entirety of Protestantism through. I doubt there is a way to convince this person. If the person believes that the Bible was edited to reflect priestly celibacy, they should edit it back and start their own Church, or join one of the many sects which have already done so.

But to the point, Christ was clear that celibacy for the sake of the kingdom should be accepted by those who were willing to accept it.

The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is not expedient to marry.” But he said to them, “Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.” (Matthew 19:10-12 RSV)

The words are there, in black and white. And Christ was talking to his disciples about the kingdom of God. He was not talking to the pharisees or the crowds or the general public, but specifically to the future leaders and members of his church about celibacy in the context of membership in God’s kingdom.

People can either accept what Christ actually said or reject what Christ actually said. But if they are going to claim that the Bible was edited, there isn’t much anyone can do to convince them.

-Tim-

 

[Jim_Dandy]

I am also celibate, but not a priest. It’s a great way to live.

Jesus and St. Paul both had plenty to say about the good of celibacy.

But it is, nevertheless, a discipline of the Latin Rite Church. Other Rites don’t have this discipline. So there are many married priests in the Catholic Church. There goes the lie that the Church falsified the Bible to foist celibacy upon priests.

Priest candidates of the Latin Rite are free to choose or not to choose celibacy. If they do not choose celibacy, they don’t choose to be priests. Simple. It’s part of the job description – not a mandate from heaven.

Jim Dandy

 

[Rudolfo]

who, what, when, where, and why is this bizarre, sarcastic, flippant and obviously intentionally misleading quote?

 

[teenphilo1]

Out of the numerous churches in union with Rome, only a few have a ceilibate priesthood.

 

[midori]

who, what, when, where, and why is this bizarre, sarcastic, flippant and obviously intentionally misleading quote?

It was on Fark during a discussion about God disrupting the Pope’s speech.

Fark’s a good place to keep on top of current events and get your lulz, but it’s not such a great place for any significant theological discussion.

fark.com/comments/6495749/God-disrupts-Popes-speech?cpp=1

 

[DevotedChild]

So there are many married priests in the Catholic Church.
Jim Dandy

Whoa, that is so wrong. I hope you are talking about deacons because all priests are called to be celebrate once they take their vows and must be unmarried when they do so.

 

[Terraius]

Compulsory Celibacy in the clergy was instituted around 1064 after the Great Schism to prevent priests heirs from invoking legal rights of that time to seize church property as inheritance.

Compulsory Celibacy is not in the Bible, anywhere. It is not Theological dogma. It is ecclesiastical discipline and can be changed at any time by decree of the Pope.

The Bible merely touches on the subject of Celibacy, in that, it is not a sin to intentionally remain chaste and celibate for any sake, especially for God.

Compulsory Celibacy in the Priesthood, however, is not. It is a modern invention.

 

[Terraius]

Whoa, that is so wrong. I hope you are talking about deacons because all priests are called to be celebrate once they take their vows and must be unmarried when they do so.

No it is not. Compulsory Celibacy is not Theological Dogma, and therefore, Churches in Communion with Rome are not heretical for having married Clergy.

Byzantine Rite Priests are allowed to marry. Again, Compulsory Celibacy is not a theological dogma or doctrine, thats a common misconception.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Whoa, that is so wrong. I hope you are talking about deacons because all priests are called to be celebrate once they take their vows and must be unmarried when they do so.

Are you not aware that there are 23 sui juris Churches that comprize the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church? The Western (Latin Rite) Church and three of the Eastern Catholic Churches require a celibate clergy. In the others, married men may be ordained to the priesthood. Even in the Latin Rite, men who are married priests from the Anglican/Episcopal tradition have been ordained in accordance with the Pastoral Provision, A few married Lutherans have also been ordained under the Provision. I recently attended the ordination of a former Anglican priest, which his wife and four children, including three-day-old baby Peter, witnessed.

The OP is ignorant and ridiculous.

Jim Dandy

 

[Pilgrim1701]

Are you not aware that there are 23 sui juris Churches that comprize the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church? The Western (Latin Rite) Church and three of the Eastern Catholic Churches require a celibate clergy. In the others, married men may be ordained to the priesthood. Even in the Latin Rite, men who are married priests from the Anglican/Episcopal tradition have been ordained in accordance with the Pastoral Provision, A few married Lutherans have also been ordained under the Provision. I recently attended the ordination of a former Anglican priest, which his wife and four children, including three-day-old baby Peter, witnessed.

The OP is ignorant and ridiculous.

Jim Dandy

Great response, but with the ‘pastoral revision’, I think the time for the requirement of priestly celibacy to be reconsidered. I think its incongruous to say celibacy remains a requirement of the Latin Rite, when that only applies to a certain section of the Latin Rite, namely those born ‘Latin’. I don’t mind rules, as long as they are applied fairly and indiscriminately. If the majority are expected to conform to priestly celibacy, so should the minority, if the option for the majority is the permanent diaconate, so should the case be for the minority.
Unless we are saying married protestants are a ‘better’ kind of candidate than catholics.

 

[egnubo]

Check out the Catholic Encyclopedia and event wikipedia. They both have a good article on the history of this matter.

 

[DevotedChild]

Are you not aware that there are 23 sui juris Churches that comprize the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church? The Western (Latin Rite) Church and three of the Eastern Catholic Churches require a celibate clergy. In the others, married men may be ordained to the priesthood. Even in the Latin Rite, men who are married priests from the Anglican/Episcopal tradition have been ordained in accordance with the Pastoral Provision, A few married Lutherans have also been ordained under the Provision. I recently attended the ordination of a former Anglican priest, which his wife and four children, including three-day-old baby Peter, witnessed.

The OP is ignorant and ridiculous.

Jim Dandy

what on earth does sui juris mean? And how can there be 23 Churches in ONE Church? Where I am from the only married people in the communities are lay people and Deacons, NOT Priests! If that is so, then is very looked down by the Church. I believe that a Priest can not marry a person because when they take their vows they are married to She, the Church.

Here is a quote from the Catechism:

1579 All the ordained ministers of the Latin Church, with the exception of permanent deacons, are normally chosen from among men of faith who lice a celibate life and who intend to remain celibate “for the sake of the of heaven.” Called to consecrate themselves with undivided heart to the Lord and to “the affairs of the Lord,” they give themselves entirely to God and to men. Celibacy is a song of this new life to the service of which the Church’s minister is consecrated; accepted with a joyous heart celibacy radiantly proclaims the Reign of God.

1580 In the Eastern Churches a different discipline has been in force for many centuries: while bishops are chosen solely from among celibates, married men can be ordained as deacons and priests… Moreover priestly celibacy is held in great honor in the Eastern Churches and many priest have freely chosen it for he sake of the Kingdom of God. In the East as in the West a man who has already received the sacrament of Holy Orders can no longer marry.

I believe unless you are unmarried and ordained, I don’t feel that you are a priests. You may do ministry work but can not be fully ordained unless unmarried and remain that way. I come from the Latin Church.

 

[BigFellaMick]

I agree with this. Priests should not be allowed to marry. My Diocesan Priest, God Bless him, was a former episcopalian minister and so he already had been married and had a family when he was ordained as our Priest. Now I have nothing ill to say about the man’s personal character OR his service as a Priest, but unfortunately he is unable to spend as much time being fully available to his congregation due to his commitments to his personal family (of course any kind of emergency or if someone is very adamant about seeing him, he’ll drop everything and come running because his love to God is without a doubt an inspiration to those of us lucky to have him). It’s just for this reason that I feel Priests should not be married, or if people are then like an above poster said, they should only be allowed to be deacons at best. I don’t know about the rest of you but if I needed to see a Priest but it wasn’t for anything urgent, I wouldn’t feel comfortable calling him away from his family as he’s sitting down to dinner. Yes that’s his job, his calling, but still. I don’t feel comfortable with that and I know I’m not the only one. Besides for the Priests who are able to abstain from carnal pleasures of the flesh they have the ability to grow spiritually and be even stronger in Christ to better serve the needs of their parish. Just my opinion.

 

[DevotedChild]

I agree with this. Priests should not be allowed to marry. My Diocesan Priest, God Bless him, was a former episcopalian minister and so he already had been married and had a family when he was ordained as our Priest. Now I have nothing ill to say about the man’s personal character OR his service as a Priest, but unfortunately he is unable to spend as much time being fully available to his congregation due to his commitments to his personal family (of course any kind of emergency or if someone is very adamant about seeing him, he’ll drop everything and come running because his love to God is without a doubt an inspiration to those of us lucky to have him). It’s just for this reason that I feel Priests should not be married, or if people are then like an above poster said, they should only be allowed to be deacons at best. I don’t know about the rest of you but if I needed to see a Priest but it wasn’t for anything urgent, I wouldn’t feel comfortable calling him away from his family as he’s sitting down to dinner. Yes that’s his job, his calling, but still. I don’t feel comfortable with that and I know I’m not the only one. Besides for the Priests who are able to abstain from carnal pleasures of the flesh they have the ability to grow spiritually and be even stronger in Christ to better serve the needs of their parish. Just my opinion.

Amen to that. I totally agree.

 

[Terraius]

Yes, Priests need to be working 80 hour weeks, God forbid they have personal time for themselves or their family, I mean, they get paid like $20,000 a year not to sit on their butts!! Break out the whips!

 

[MitchBeck]

I feel that the Jesuit order is somewhat elitist. They seem to have their own regulations and never get too tied down to societal or diocesan duties or requirements. A bundle of globetrotters the lot of them. What a cushy life they lead. What is overly irritating is their sometimes pompous and patronising sermons almost demonising us to be plebs and docile imbeciles. I know of some genuinely good and inspirational and humble Jesuit priests but in general they are too elitist.

MitchBeck

 

[joshrp]

I am also celibate, but not a priest. It’s a great way to live.

Jesus and St. Paul both had plenty to say about the good of celibacy.

But it is, nevertheless, a discipline of the Latin Rite Church. Other Rites don’t have this discipline. So there are many married priests in the Catholic Church. There goes the lie that the Church falsified the Bible to foist celibacy upon priests.

Priest candidates of the Latin Rite are free to choose or not to choose celibacy. If they do not choose celibacy, they don’t choose to be priests. Simple. It’s part of the job description – not a mandate from heaven.

Jim Dandy

If you want to be a priest then in the Catholic Church, but not the Latin Rite, then you can be married then? So why are people complaining about celibate priests? If you want a married priest, go to another rite that has them. Is that a good argument for people?

 

[Terraius]

If you want to be a priest then in the Catholic Church, but not the Latin Rite, then you can be married then? So why are people complaining about celibate priests? If you want a married priest, go to another rite that has them. Is that a good argument for people?

Somewhat its harder because there is not alot of Byzantine Catholic churches in the USA outside of Pittsburgh.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

what on earth does sui juris mean? And how can there be 23 Churches in ONE Church? Where I am from the only married people in the communities are lay people and Deacons, NOT Priests! If that is so, then is very looked down by the Church. I believe that a Priest can not marry a person because when they take their vows they are married to She, the Church.

Here is a quote from the Catechism:

1579 All the ordained ministers of the Latin Church, with the exception of permanent deacons, are normally chosen from among men of faith who lice a celibate life and who intend to remain celibate “for the sake of the of heaven.” Called to consecrate themselves with undivided heart to the Lord and to “the affairs of the Lord,” they give themselves entirely to God and to men. Celibacy is a song of this new life to the service of which the Church’s minister is consecrated; accepted with a joyous heart celibacy radiantly proclaims the Reign of God.

1580 In the Eastern Churches a different discipline has been in force for many centuries: while bishops are chosen solely from among celibates, married men can be ordained as deacons and priests… Moreover priestly celibacy is held in great honor in the Eastern Churches and many priest have freely chosen it for he sake of the Kingdom of God. In the East as in the West a man who has already received the sacrament of Holy Orders can no longer marry.

I believe unless you are unmarried and ordained, I don’t feel that you are a priests. You may do ministry work but can not be fully ordained unless unmarried and remain that way. I come from the Latin Church.

As paragraph 1580 states, in Eastern Churches married men can be ordained as both deacons and priests. But three of these Churches have adopted the rule of celibacy for their clergy.

Tell the Pope that you don’t feel these married men ordained in the Latin Church are really priests. He granted the exceptions. The Pastoral Provision was initiated by John Paul II and has resulted in Benedict XVI’s Angelicanorum Coetibus. You can get all the information on line. Here’s the announcement of Benedict XVI’s program.

telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/6386833/Pope-Benedict-XVI-paves-way-for-thousands-of-disaffected-Anglicans-to-cross-over-to-Rome.html

Sui juris basically means autonomous or self-governing. Each of the sui juris Churches that comprise the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is heir to a particular spirituality, style of worship, religious art, canon law, and unique history. Recently the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church issued its own Catechism. These are primarily Churches that became Orthodox at the time of the Great Schism, but have since returned to Rome and are identified as Eastern Catholic. (The Maronites never left Rome.)

You can read about all of these autonomous Churches on line.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Catholic_Churches

Jim Dandy