Priestly Celibacy falsely justified by the Church?

[Brendan]

And for some additional information

Here is the website for the Eparch (Diocese) of Parma, OH

That is the midwest Eparchy\Diocese for the Byzantine Catholics in the US

parma.org/History.asp

And their parishes

parma.org/Parishes_map.asp

and here is a youtube video of a Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgy (Mass)… If you attended this Divine Liturgy on a Sunday, you would have fulfilled your Sunday obligation.

youtube.com/watch?v=JB6bPQGfQ5g

Enjoy!

 

[DevotedChild]

Yeah. Actually i have moved, since i have just entered college but still remain in the state. I shot the pastor at the church nearby that I have talked to an email about it.

The video: that church looks uniquely different from the one where I grew up and the one nearby. Its interesting.

Thanks for sharing. I have learned a lot from you guys. You have expanded my knowledge.

God Bless you guys.

 

[rainbow1]

I agree with this. Priests should not be allowed to marry. My Diocesan Priest, God Bless him, was a former episcopalian minister and so he already had been married and had a family when he was ordained as our Priest. Now I have nothing ill to say about the man’s personal character OR his service as a Priest, but unfortunately he is unable to spend as much time being fully available to his congregation due to his commitments to his personal family (of course any kind of emergency or if someone is very adamant about seeing him, he’ll drop everything and come running because his love to God is without a doubt an inspiration to those of us lucky to have him). It’s just for this reason that I feel Priests should not be married, or if people are then like an above poster said, they should only be allowed to be deacons at best. I don’t know about the rest of you but if I needed to see a Priest but it wasn’t for anything urgent, I wouldn’t feel comfortable calling him away from his family as he’s sitting down to dinner. Yes that’s his job, his calling, but still. I don’t feel comfortable with that and I know I’m not the only one. Besides for the Priests who are able to abstain from carnal pleasures of the flesh they have the ability to grow spiritually and be even stronger in Christ to better serve the needs of their parish. Just my opinion.

We are all called to live chaste lives, married or not married, and thus priest who would potentially be married should be able to live just as strong spiritual lives as those who are not married…I don’t think chastity has anything to do with the particular vocation…

 

[MitchBeck]

Wow. I’m not a Jesuit nor a priest but I’m pretty offended by this, I must say. What a blanket statement about a really committed and hard working group of men. Wow!

I am a very proud graduate of Marquette University where I had the great honor of being the student of many devoted, very hard working Jesuit priests. I found them approachable, compassionate and very available to students. I further found them committed not only to the priesthood, but also to education. Not only were they scholars of Catholicism but also of their personal areas of expertise in which most, in addition to holding doctoral degrees in divinity, also held PhDs in those areas of specialty. I never found any of them to be pompous nor to talk above the heads of students, though they certainly were adequately educated that they could have talked circles around the lot of us.

It was not unusual for a priest to sit with a group of students at the library or student union, or to join us for a meal to talk about class, social issues, or our faith in a very respectful and appropriate yet comfortable manner.

When I was faced with health problems, a priest visited me at my dorm to offer how he could help. When my cousin and his friends returned from a break to find their apartment building had burned to the ground, the Jesuits on campus took it upon themselves to find a way to house the many students impacted, even though the students lived off campus and they had no responsibility whatsoever to assist.

I cannot speak for every Jesuit but can speak for my experiences with a great many, and all those experiences were entirely positive.

You’re absolutely right formerlysure and I apologise sincerely for offending you. I withdraw my crass and foundless criticism and am rather ashamed of it. My last comment concerning the humility of Jesuits is more representative of my true feelings rather than the drivel preceding it. It was a small tiny annoyance I had and I proceeded to denigrate this wonderful Priestly Order.

My apologies again for any offence and my prayers are now directed to the continuance of the wonderful work these men really do.

Blessings,

MitchBeck.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

I understand that (even though I don’t agree) however, the sources he gave are not valid ones.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_orientalium-ecclesiarum_en.html

 

[Contarini]

So, your saying that there are different churches

As I said, I don’t like the term “churches.” I’d prefer that the word be reserved either for the Universal Church or for the local church gathered around the bishop. And I don’t like the fact that your Communion has parallel organizations, so that the Byzantine Catholic parishe) geographically located inside your diocese (if there are any) aren’t part of your local “Roman Catholic” diocese but part of their own “Eparchies.” This is the same situation that obtains among the Orthodox, but the Orthodox seem more concerned about it.

because there are different traditions from among the faithful due to being in different cultures/in different countries? If that is so, then that makes a lot more sense. Its like the different types of orders but in a more cultural sense.

Yes, it is similar. My problem with it is that different cultures/spiritualities shouldn’t separate Christians from each other, in terms of where they worship on a Sunday. We should learn how to live with each other’s differences, and not simply go our separate ways in good will. This is my big problem with Protestant denominationalism, and while I recognize that the Catholic Church has much, much greater unity, I still see this situation as a problem.

But that’s very different from the question of different theologies/practices. That’s certainly part of the universality of the Church–I just wish that there was more direct contact among them and that they were not used to divide local churches organizationally.

That still doesn’t answer the question about the priests though. hummmm… I would think it hard for a married man to be a priest and serve the Church, God, and all of his children that come to him and still have the responsibilities as a husband and father. I think that is why in the it is limited in some of the different churches. If a man is capable to serve God as his priest and be a married man too, the more to him. I guess it would also give him some insight on some things that the parishioners may ask that priest who are unmarried won’t, like marriage problems and how to raise children, i guess. I guess it all depends on how you look at it.

Right. My wife objects strongly to the celibate priesthood (she’s Episcopalian like me, though she used to be Methodist until recently–she does not want to be Catholic and is one of the reasons why I’m not Catholic!), because she thinks that having a priesthood made up of all men who don’t know what it’s like to be married and have a family is very unhealthy. I think that both she and you have valid points (how’s that for diplomacy!), and so there isn’t a hard-and-fast answer. Coming from a Protestant background, I have trouble seeing why a parish priest shouldn’t be married. Historically, I think that the attitude you’re expressing is largely shaped by the Catholic reforms after the Council of Trent. Those reforms created a priesthood that was sharply set over against the laity instead of being part of the local community. I don’t think this was a good development, on the whole, and I don’t think it follows necessarily either from what the Catholic Church teaches about the priesthood or what it teaches about celibacy.

On the other hand, I thoroughly agree with the basic point that celibacy is to be honored and that a celibate person can give himself or herself to Christ and the Church in a special way, so I’m glad that the Catholic Church is maintaining this countercultural message even if I question whether mandating celibacy for all diocesan priests is the best way to do this.

In Christ,

Edwin

 

[Nicea325]

As I said, I don’t like the term “churches.” I’d prefer that the word be reserved either for the Universal Church or for the local church gathered around the bishop. And I don’t like the fact that your Communion has parallel organizations, so that the Byzantine Catholic parishe) geographically located inside your diocese (if there are any) aren’t part of your local “Roman Catholic” diocese but part of their own “Eparchies.” This is the same situation that obtains among the Orthodox, but the Orthodox seem more concerned about it.

Yes, it is similar. My problem with it is that different cultures/spiritualities shouldn’t separate Christians from each other, in terms of where they worship on a Sunday. We should learn how to live with each other’s differences, and not simply go our separate ways in good will. This is my big problem with Protestant denominationalism, and while I recognize that the Catholic Church has much, much greater unity, I still see this situation as a problem.

But that’s very different from the question of different theologies/practices. That’s certainly part of the universality of the Church–I just wish that there was more direct contact among them and that they were not used to divide local churches organizationally.

Right. My wife objects strongly to the celibate priesthood (she’s Episcopalian like me, though she used to be Methodist until recently–she does not want to be Catholic and is one of the reasons why I’m not Catholic!), because she thinks that having a priesthood made up of all men who don’t know what it’s like to be married and have a family is very unhealthy. I think that both she and you have valid points (how’s that for diplomacy!), and so there isn’t a hard-and-fast answer. Coming from a Protestant background, I have trouble seeing why a parish priest shouldn’t be married. Historically, I think that the attitude you’re expressing is largely shaped by the Catholic reforms after the Council of Trent. Those reforms created a priesthood that was sharply set over against the laity instead of being part of the local community. I don’t think this was a good development, on the whole, and I don’t think it follows necessarily either from what the Catholic Church teaches about the priesthood or what it teaches about celibacy.

On the other hand, I thoroughly agree with the basic point that celibacy is to be honored and that a celibate person can give himself or herself to Christ and the Church in a special way, so I’m glad that the Catholic Church is maintaining this countercultural message even if I question whether mandating celibacy for all diocesan priests is the best way to do this.

In Christ,

Edwin

So you are not Catholic because of celibate priesthood? No offense,but one’s faith is based on Christ,not celibate priesthood. What does one’s faith have to do with celibate men? It is no diffirent when people tell me the left the CC because of the priest scandal? Well then they based their faith on the priest and not on Jesus.

BTW: I disagree with your wife that a man should know what it is like to be married and have a family and that it is not healthy. Says who? Society? Married folks? Was St.Paul unhealty? He never married.

 

[pablope]

If you want to be a priest then in the Catholic Church, but not the Latin Rite, then you can be married then? So why are people complaining about celibate priests? If you want a married priest, go to another rite that has them. Is that a good argument for people?

In the other rites, the ordinand has to be married prior to ordination. Once ordained, the priest cannot marry. And bishops only come from the celibate clergy.

 

[pablope]

As paragraph 1580 states, in Eastern Churches married men can be ordained as both deacons and priests. **But three of these Churches have adopted the rule of celibacy for their clergy.

**
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Catholic_Churches

Jim Dandy

Jim,

I was not aware of this. Which are these rites?

 

[Contarini]

So you are not Catholic because of celibate priesthood?

I did not say this, nor would a reasonable person have deduced this from what I said.

It is a major reason for my wife. And my wife is a major reason for me. I respect her opinions, even when I disagree, and I am not lightly going to enter a situation in which we can’t receive the Eucharist together.

Given your previous discourteous posts, I regret mentioning my wife in any thread you were reading.

BTW: I disagree with your wife that a man should know what it is like to be married and have a family and that it is not healthy. Says who? Society? Married folks? Was St.Paul unhealty? He never married.

You misunderstand again. Her argument is not that it’s unhealthy for anyone to be celibate (she has a high regard for monasticism, as I do) but for the entire clerical body of the Church to be made up of celibate men. I think she has a point, though I don’t weigh it as heavily as she does and it is certainly not a major factor (directly) in my own hesitation about entering communion with Rome individually and unconditionally.

Edwin

 

[Nicea325]

I did not say this, nor would a reasonable person have deduced this from what I said.

It is a major reason for my wife. And my wife is a major reason for me. I respect her opinions, even when I disagree, and I am not lightly going to enter a situation in which we can’t receive the Eucharist together.

Given your previous discourteous posts, I regret mentioning my wife in any thread you were reading.

You misunderstand again. Her argument is not that it’s unhealthy for anyone to be celibate (she has a high regard for monasticism, as I do) but for the entire clerical body of the Church to be made up of celibate men. I think she has a point, though I don’t weigh it as heavily as she does and it is certainly not a major factor (directly) in my own hesitation about entering communion with Rome individually and unconditionally.

Edwin

With all due respect,but it is was not intended to be an insult. I apologize if that is how you interpretated it? I was merely asking a question and sorry for misunderstanding you and your wife.